@meagloth surprisingly its usually anything with loads of ice in it that helps me, but I've just had a lovely warm cup of cocoa, and I feel better enough to actually go get some sleep YAY And tea isn't such a bad suggestion - both the tannins and the caffeine are known to help in neurological pain. See, bet you didn't know you were prescribing an efficacious mix of chemical agents!
@meagloth surprisingly its usually anything with loads of ice in it that helps me, but I've just had a lovely warm cup of cocoa, and I feel better enough to actually go get some sleep YAY And tea isn't such a bad suggestion - both the tannins and the caffeine are known to help in neurological pain. See, bet you didn't know you were prescribing an efficacious mix of chemical agents!
@meagloth Exactly, perspective is everything. And I am not talking about ignoring problems. I'm talking about ignoring negative thoughts, emotions and things that don't help you.
If you go and talk to a girl and she says "well, you are not my type" it shouldn't affect you. "Whatever, moving on" If someone insults at you in traffic when you're driving, it shouldn't affect you either.
Try to solve the issue if you want to, don't let it affect you emotionally and psychologically. That's what I'm saying.
Don't make it mean something negative. Make it mean something to improve yourself for example. You decide if you want anything to mean anything.
For example if you are rejected, you shouldn't be "omg, she must think I'm a creep and ugly and boring, I won't ever get into a relationship".
It should be "Well, too bad. Next girl and I should probably be more relaxed."
@ZelgadisGW As I said, you see it as embarassing, I see as a fun, easy and convenient way to meet people. It's all in your perspective and how you see things. Like I said, if you don't keep seeing things in a positive way, you won't get anywhere.
Yeah life will hit you. Shrug it off and get up and continue doing your thing. Redefine some things in a positive way. Dating sites are not embarrassing, they are fun, so many people you can meet! Life will hit you but you will shrug it off and keep moving forward.
I can undestand most of what you wrote, @Shandyr . Just one mistake on your part: it never really helped you rise your self-esteem. I think that back then you never thought well of yourself, but you looked down on other people. That's not rising self-esteem.
Recently i went on a date and it failed horribly, after the date i apologized for the way i acted and she seemed to be ok with it. Later that day i said goodnight via a message. The next morning she blocked me from facebook thus ending my contact with her. Since then i have been wondering what went wrong as well as if i should make amends somehow. (from what i understand this girl is a i don't give a fk type) so not sure if that will go down to well. We both do not know each other well enough and my worry is that i will not be able to talk to her if i try to figure out what went wrong.
@TarotMaster No, don't make amends, don't try to explain, don't try to contact her, don't bother, move on, it doesn't matter.
Contacting her for any reason, even to apologize is disastrous, no matter what anyone else tells you. Because I'm speaking from personal experience and from what I read and saw actually happening instead of what I think would/should happen.
In other words, I have experience in this matter and not just theory of what should be happening.
What happened is that she got turned off. Probably you didn't have confidence and the date turned awkward somehow and by apologizing (and it depends on how you did it) it made things even worse.
Lacking confidence and apologizing for something minor, sinks attraction fast and it is not manly. Apologizing in itself is not bad, the bad thing is trying to seek her approval. That's a huge turn off.
No offense, but what went wrong I presume is that she probably found you boring and not fun and lacking confidence. Like the countless guys out there.
She is approached and talked to by those guys all the time and she probably was like: "*sigh* Another one of those boring guys... Neeeext." And she probably blocked you because of that reason, so you don't try to contact her.
What you should have done going on that date is not caring how things turn out. Have fun, joke around, tease her, act with confidence and like someone that is fun to be around with.
These are common mistakes many guys do. These are mistakes I did, some time ago. Being a boring guy, with no confidence and that was a chore probably to be around with girls.
And when things didn't go the way I wanted to: "Oh sorry, I didn't want to do that" and bombarding them with messages, apologizing and trying to "explain".
It's what I have been saying, if you don't care how the date goes, don't care if she will like you or not, don't care if the date went wrong or she didn't like you, you will be a happier man and more carefree and confident.
Why do you think alcohol is called liquid courage? Because it numbs your worries and you just have fun without caring, to a point. That makes you more confident and more fun.
I'm going to admit that I have been very fortunate by only having one man in my life, and as consequence, I don't know very much about dating.
But.
Listening to a guy say that you just shouldn't "care" about a date that I have taken the time to get dressed up, make room in my schedule, put forth the effort to meet someone new, perhaps even spend money at a movie or a dinner or whatever, is an extreme turn-off to me.
Again, I'm not experienced in the ways of dating, so I can't speak for this particular situation. But that's just my first impression. You should care, at least a little. Caring shows interest in her well-being, and interest in your own as well--after all, if she's having a good time, it should mean you're having a good time too, right? (And if not, don't be afraid to say so, most girls don't want to put you through any misery just for their sake!)
If she didn't have a good time, she didn't have a good time. Sometimes, that's just how things work out. Don't flood her mailbox with apologies. Not because it screams "I have no confidence," but "I'm a potential stalker who won't leave you alone." I mean, how would you feel if you got a dozen texts from some girl you didn't know that well after a not-so-great date? (Not to say it was a dozen... But sometimes, it's just better to let things go.)
I do agree that you shouldn't get too hung-up over it though. There's more fish in the sea, as they say.
@Nonnahwriter Not care = not worry. Be care-free. When I say don't care I mean don't care about the way it goes, good or bad. It's a fun experiment and if it doesn't work, move on.
And flooding her mailbox screams both things. Personally, I think it screams "please answer me, give me some attention and talk to me". That screams a lack of confidence. That's a turn off, awkward and annoying.
Of course I would run to the hills if a girl flooded my mailbox but if she was very cute I would find it charming, at least in the beginning.
But it's one of the things that you don't realize at the moment and you do it. Because I know I did a long time ago, trying to get the attention of my first ex. So I'm talking first-hand.
If you don't care about the outcome of the date, it's a much more relaxed and fun date.
This might sound unromantic but it's pretty much the truth and it's directed to the guys above:
Dating is a set of social skills. Just like learning to drive. If you don't get trained in it, no matter your intentions or good-will, if you don't know what you're doing, you are going to crash.
Those social skills are meant to be taught by the father figure or big brother. It's natural and pretty much how our ancestors did it. The same way you're taught how to behave, talk or how an animal teaches its young to hunt.
There's nothing disrespectful or "immoral" by learning how to be attractive to a girl. The girls themselves learn how to be attractive to guys by the way they talk, behave and dress. They're giving you a tool, you decide how to use it.
This is what those dating experts or gurus are supposed to do. Teach you those skills. If you learn how to "score", be confident and attractive (like body language etc) then you can get the girlfriend you want as well. She's not going to suddenly appear and fall in love with you. You must go out there and find her.
And something else that is important. If you don't know what you're doing, you might settle with someone that you don't like as much but beggars cannot be choosers. If you know what you're doing, you can choose the girlfriend or wife or whatever you want and be happy and satisfied that you found someone amazing and not someone that is "meh".
I have to go to sleep soon, so I can only say one thing, but no. Sorry, but this isn't true. Care and worry are to related but separate things. Not caring is terrible. Not worrying is good. The trick is being able to care a lot and worry only a little. You really don't want to equate these. If you start not caring so that you either seem cool and carefree or so that you'll worry less, then you are on the fast track to assholedom and a host of other bad things. It's a fine line. It's a very fine line.
@Archaos I will admit that she came onto me too fast when i did met her, i went right with it because i did not think ahead. Not only that but i left my house in a paniced state because she changed the date time without letting me know ahead of time. My main problem is that i cared too much and did not give her room to totally breath. It was not constant or anything it was just me thinking way ahead or getting too excited. I was thinking of just becoming friends with her instead but after reading you post i have some doughts. AS far as the training goes i have a few things at my disposal such as The Game for one and some of my fathers limited advice. However i am a bit stubborn in terms of the game and how it works. I also lack many important tools such as a car/licence, a cell phone, a job, and friends. Getting these things is difficult due to my education and mental health so to speak. (I talk to my self alot due to my lonelyness).
@TarotMaster Really, talking to your self alone when you're lonely is not that bad. We need some social noise now and then so we don't get crazy from the loneliness and silence.
Well, generally be relaxed next time and just have fun. I have more or less said what I had to say. Start talking to yourself in a positive way all the time (or just think to yourself) and don't worry.
Eah, I've been talking to myself since I was six. Only way to get some decent intelligent conversation these days. (Or someone who laughs at my jokes...)
On the topic of caring/not caring; There's a difference between 'not caring' in which you show up in your underpants ten minutes late with a distracted "oh hey, what was your name again?" and 'not caring' in which you go into the date with the mindset "whatever'll happen, will happen, doesn't matter much as long as we have a good time". Not caring much about the date is bad, not caring much about the result...better.
In my experience (and with that, the experiences I've seen with friends and such), most dates go wrong if one sets out on the date with the thought "I need to do this perfectly so we can get married in five years". Anybody who reads this knows it to be insane. Yet a lot of people have exactly this frame of mind when sitting down with someone they're interested in. It's almost automatic, especially if you have low self esteem. Because in that case, it also adds the line "because no-one else will be interested in me, ever" to the thing, upping the pressure.
I've had a few bad dates. Some were my fault ("So, what do you like? Me too, I like everything you like, you're amazing. I like your skin. That is pretty skin. CALL ME!") and not my fault ("Oh wow, you want kids before the end of the year. No...I don't have any weird heriditary diseases in the family..."). I only stopped fu- messing up when I realised that if a lady was interested in me, that didn't mean she was a gracious and perfect specimen of womanhood that I should be forever grateful for.
When my self confidence rose (due to work and friends and a nightmare relationship which left me destitute, long story for another time, but it oddly helped) I realised that not every woman talking to me was automaticly the mother of my children. I talked to a lot of ladies and for the first time in years, didn't put that pressure on myself OR on her (seriously, it's pretty obvious if you're talking to someone who sees you as their lifepartner right away, it's creepy) which smoothed contact, which boosted my self confidence some more. For the first time in years I felt I could talk about what *I* liked without being embarassed ("I'm a dungeon master, check out my basement!" still doesn't work though, be careful) and I found that it's actually easier to connect with people if you give them something of yourself to connect to, instead of dodging all interest questions with "Yeah, I like games and TV and stuff. HEY, so tell me ALL about you and let's not talk about me.". It allowed me to meet people that liked what I had to say and I liked saying things again, which is likable.
Anyway, long story short; It's not "don't care" as much as "Don't go in with giant hopes and expectations". Like yourself before you ask someone else to like you. If they don't want a followup date and block you on facebook, they don't want to talk to you. This means, don't talk to them. If at first you don't succeed, try again. If at 50th you don't succeed, kidnap the object of your desire and tie him/her to the train tracks until they love you.
For the first time in years I felt I could talk about what *I* liked without being embarassed ("I'm a dungeon master, check out my basement!" still doesn't work though, be careful)
Hey, sometimes it does work! Some girls like D&D too! You just gotta find one.
Although taking her to the basement on a first date is pretty...um...bold. >.>;;
I am the kind of guy who spouts random nonsence for example today i was contemplateing on catching a large fly painting it red and letting my cat destroy it. But then i realized the paint might get the wings sticky/wet and it may not be able to fly.
@Drugar She did want to plan a second date but i fked up again that night by being all lovey dovey when saying goodnight to her. I think that is what may have set her off.
mmm. I don't get this dating thing. You shouldn't need a technique or guru to find good company just cause s/he's the opposite sex. I would imagine you would meet, get to know each other, become friends, *then* become romantic partners, and regardless of the time scale of those steps I would think thats probably a pretty sound plan.(first two could be 5 minutes, I guess) but whatever.
@Shandyr@meagloth The problem is that the way things work is not the same with the way we think things should work. Does that makes sense?
In a perfect world, we would just find someone, get to know them, boom, they are in a relationship and marriage.
If this worked, we wouldn't have people that "teach" how to meet and be attractive to girls and we wouldn't have unhappy relationships or people saying "this girl is not talking to me, I don't know what I did wrong".
It is flirting. It is learning how to flirt and how to be your best self. They are a set of social skills that apply to dating.
If you send a biography, aren't pleople telling you "you should write this that way and say this thing and don't say this, it will make a better impression".
It's the same thing, learning what to say and how to say it, how to act and not come off as needy or boring or whatever. How to keep the date going on a high note and be interesting and funny.
It might seem like an algorithm but that's the nature of the beast.
@meagloth Yes, you shouldn't because those are just natural skills that we should have been taught by our family or friends as we grow up.
Like I said, if a pup or other animal doesn't learn how to hunt by it's family, how is it supposed to know how to hunt? If you don't learn how to flirt somehow, how are you supposed to flirt and be attractive?
Another more realistic example. In an ideal world, you meet with someone, you get to know them, you get into a relationship.
But if you don't know how to do it properly, you might come off as needy, lacking confidence, creepy, boring, offensive, nervous, a loser or not masculine.
This is what those people teach you. How to be confident and fun to be around with girls, nothing more. Scoring, relationships etc come afterwards. When you know how to approach and talk to them and you chosen someone.
Don't you think that there's a reason many highschool girls like a particular type of guy that was usually a douchebag or bully? Not all. But I can remember a few in my school.
It's not about being a douchebag, it's about being confident or "cool" as they were, while you're a respectful and interesting person.
Some people figure all this naturally by trial and error and keep doing what works unconsciously without seeing a handbook or anything.
Don't you have a friend that is just good with the girls and popular with them?
And the girls are pretty aware of such things. Many girl magazines have titles such as: "How to make him want you. How to become irresistible to him. How to make him think of you all day."
Yes... I get that. We clearly have very different views on life, @Archaos. You should have to have advice on how to be confident, you should just be yourself. I know hats a cliche, but its kinda true for this situation. If you are able to feign confidence/masculinity/carelessness/whatever through all the stages of dating, and then you gat married, then what? You either drop the facade, learn to hate each other and get a divorce, or learn to live the lie for the rest of your life, and who wants that? That might be a bit extreme, but I don't imagine what you seem to be suggesting breeds long, happy marriages. I think the idea is to find a partner attracted to you, not your confidence or whatever.
This is probably a less popular opinion, but I don't get the whole search for love idea. Love will come, just be patient. Unless you're a complete hermit who never goes outside. In that case I would suggest you go back to your room and cry for the rest of your life, or get out more. This is why dating sites don't make any sense to me, except for scientific data collection. You should not want a girlfriend. You should want amy or gina, or whatever her name is. Having a partner just for the sake of having a partner or social status or feeling fulfilled is all to common won't get you anywhere. I see it a lot from my position, and it's pathetic.
@meagloth That is what most people don't get. When you tell yourself that you're confident, you become confident.
"Being yourself" is the most generic and vague dating advice in existence, really. If all you had to do is "be yourself" there wouldn't be people complaining how their dating failed, how they cannot get a girlfriend or why their relationship is not going well.
If someone's self is to be boring, insulting and really nervous or come off as creepy and needy?
It's not creating a facade, it's improving yourself to what you want to be like working out. Instead of working out your body, you work out your character, personality and inner self.
You're still your self, you're just improving it to become more attractive.
Girls are improving themselves why makeup, clothes or learning to be more desirable etc. Why shouldn't men learn how to do that? And looks are less important for girls, that it is for guys.
Haven't you heard constantly what girls say? "Someone that is confident, funny and not boring." When a poll is made of what characteristic women want humor and confidence comes first.
And no, love doesn't come on it's own. Maybe from luck you might meet someone and fall in love with them. What if they don't find you attractive?
Love coming on it's own is a romantic idea but it's not true, I'm sorry. You must learn to meet people and how to communicate with girls in an attractive way.
Dating sites are about meeting people. You cannot be everywhere all the time. But if people are on dating sites, you can find them and get to know them. Then you can arrange a meeting and see where it goes.
There's nothing wrong with meeting people, dating sites just makes it easier and more convenient. It's just a tool to know people easier.
Yes, you might want Gina or Amy or whatever. Does Amy want you though? Or she thinks that you're weird or whatever or just not her type?
Obsessing over one girl is not healthy. You should meet various people and choose to focus on the ones that interest you.
If all you had to do is "be yourself" there wouldn't be people complaining how their dating failed, how they cannot get a girlfriend or why their relationship is not going well.
If someone's self is to be boring, insulting and really nervous or come off as creepy and needy?
Well, its not going to work every time, duh. I don't think many people expect to gat married to their middl e school first date. also, once again, you shouldn't be concerned about this in only dating. if you're a creepy perv, then you need to work on your whole personality, not just around girls.
Girls are improving themselves why makeup, clothes or learning to be more desirable etc. Why shouldn't men learn how to do that? And looks are less important for girls, that it is for guys.
Haven't you heard constantly what girls say? "Someone that is confident, funny and not boring." When a poll is made of what characteristic women want humor and confidence comes first.
funny because everyone wants funny. laughter is a primary way that people bond. All people. Laughing just make you feel better you can actually relieve stress by *pretending* to laugh, which tricks your brain into releasing happiness hormones.
And no, love doesn't come on it's own. Maybe from luck you might meet someone and fall in love with them. What if they don't find you attractive?
Love coming on it's own is a romantic idea but it's not true, I'm sorry. You must learn to meet people and how to communicate with girls in an attractive way.
Dating sites are about meeting people. You cannot be everywhere all the time. But if people are on dating sites, you can find them and get to know them. Then you can arrange a meeting and see where it goes.
Not all on it's own. You should see an opportunity and seize it , but don't get obsessed or stressed searching for opportunities. Patience.
There's nothing wrong with meeting people, dating sites just makes it easier and more convenient. It's just a tool to know people easier.
Yes, you might want Gina or Amy or whatever. Does Amy want you though? Or she thinks that you're weird or whatever or just not her type?
Obsessing over one girl is not healthy. You should meet various people and choose to focus on the ones that interest you.
Sorry, I think you misunderstood. Me say Gina and Amy is just a clever way of saying you shouldn't have a partner just so you have a partner. You should have a partner because you love then. I think I made that more complicated than I needed to. And I'm definitely not saying you should obsess over people. If Amy doesn't like you, get over it, move on; it wouldn't have worked anyway.
@meagloth We're basically saying the same things. Also I'm too lazy to quote everything.
Obviously. I'm saying that you can apply it to dating as well.
"Just be yourself" is way too generic and vague to be a valid dating advice. You can be yourself but part of your personality traits can be creepy or awkward. I'm saying that you must learn to master those and improve them.
Yes, laughter is important. Laughter also shows confidence and being in comfort and relaxed. You cannot be humorous if you're anxious and nervous, it will come off as forced.
Yes, see an opportunity and seize it. You can also go and make those opportunities happen. Maybe your future girlfriend is that girl on the bus that you will never know unless you talk to. Maybe she will be just a really great friend with cuter girlfriends. Be active, not passive.
I disagree that you should only have a partner because you love them. How are you going to love them if you don't meet them and get to know them? And if your personality has some very awful and creepy traits or you're not confident, you might lose her for someone that is more interesting.
Other people go into relationships for having someone to have sex with and/or cuddle and talk to. Love is only one reason to go into a relationship and that's okay.
If hypothetical Amy doesn't like you, why is that? Something you did that turned her off? Maybe you were too needy or pushing or didn't leave her time to breathe?
There are many reasons a girl might not want you. Many of those reasons are things you can change about yourself and within your control to improve. This is what this is all about. "Optimizing" yourself to be the person you want and someone that is a catch to be with.
Improve your best personality characteristics and eliminate your bad ones.
One of those bad characteristics might be calling her all the time and obsessing over her or being really nervous and lacking confidence.
And I'll be honest, no offence but "being yourself" is a lazy advice.
Would you tell an athlete "well you did your best and failed, be yourself and move on" or "you need more practice and you can do it if you learn how"?
Why not try to improve yourself to be more attractive instead of giving up and keep doing the same thing without improving and failing again?
If you keep doing the same things that made you fail, you will fail again. If you learn what you did wrong and improve, you will succeed. This applies to everything.
"Just be yourself" is way too generic and vague to be a valid dating advice. You can be yourself but part of your personality traits can be creepy or awkward. I'm saying that you must learn to master those and improve them. .
Alright, WhenI I say "just be yourself" I don't think I mean it as the cliche it usually is. I just mean don't try to be something you aren't, cause you'll either be miserable your whole life or(more likely) the real you will eventually come out. Nothing more than that.
Yes, see an opportunity and seize it. You can also go and make those opportunities happen. Maybe your future girlfriend is that girl on the bus that you will never know unless you talk to. Maybe she will be just a really great friend with cuter girlfriends. Be active, not passive.
That's exactly what I mean. Seeing a cute girl on a bus and going up and talking to her is what I'm talking about. You waited until you saw the girl, you didn't go out one night and say to yourself, "alright, I need to have a gf by Tuesday cause if I don't I'll be sad/fail a social obligation/not meet May personal goals/whatever.
I disagree that you should only have a partner because you love them. How are you going to love them if you don't meet them and get to know them? And if your personality has some very awful and creepy traits or you're not confident, you might lose her for someone that is more interesting.
Other people go into relationships for having someone to have sex with and/or cuddle and talk to. Love is only one reason to go into a relationship and that's okay.
I think this is a communication error. When I say partner I means girlfriend/boyfriend/husband/wife. Of course you get to know them. Also, you seem to contradict yourself. Also I. Not sure what you mean by "Other people go into relationships for having someone to have sex with and/or cuddle and talk to. Love is only one reason to go into a relationship and that's okay." Are you saying it's ok to have a relationship for sex and not love them? Cause if you are that's something we toltally disagree on. Sex really shouldn't be the driving factor in a relationship, and if you don't love him/her I don't even know what to say.
And I'll be honest, no offence but "being yourself" is a lazy advice.
Would you tell an athlete "well you did your best and failed, be yourself and move on" or "you need more practice and you can do it if you learn how"?
Why not try to improve yourself to be more attractive instead of giving up and keep doing the same thing without improving and failing again?
If you keep doing the same things that made you fail, you will fail again. If you learn what you did wrong and improve, you will succeed. This applies to everything.
That's a terrible analogy. Dating is not a sport, and dates are not athletes. Your not trying to win. This is where we differ. I don't really like the whole concept of dating. It's far to official, with named stages and such. You are either a couple or your not. You go from acquaintances to friends to couple and that's that. It isn't that's simple.
It's not about failing. You don't fail or succeed at a date, if you do, you're going about it all wrong. You should just go out to see if you like this person, and they like you back. There shouldn't be all this stress of wether or not you will 'win' her. If it doesn't work, then it wasn't meant to be and you move on. It's not a competition. It's an experiment.
That aside I don't like this 'one size fits all' dating advice. One should really talk to real friends who know both parties, and figure out what to do case by case. Don't ask random people on the internet like me and archaos(no offense, but neither of us know what's going on, really).
Though I'm probably just a young, sheltered idealist to naive to accept the way the world really is. What would I know, anyway. I've never even been on a date:/ I've said more than my fair share on how I think the world should be, and I'll shut up now.
Comments
If you go and talk to a girl and she says "well, you are not my type" it shouldn't affect you. "Whatever, moving on"
If someone insults at you in traffic when you're driving, it shouldn't affect you either.
Try to solve the issue if you want to, don't let it affect you emotionally and psychologically. That's what I'm saying.
Don't make it mean something negative. Make it mean something to improve yourself for example.
You decide if you want anything to mean anything.
For example if you are rejected, you shouldn't be "omg, she must think I'm a creep and ugly and boring, I won't ever get into a relationship".
It should be "Well, too bad. Next girl and I should probably be more relaxed."
@ZelgadisGW As I said, you see it as embarassing, I see as a fun, easy and convenient way to meet people. It's all in your perspective and how you see things.
Like I said, if you don't keep seeing things in a positive way, you won't get anywhere.
Yeah life will hit you. Shrug it off and get up and continue doing your thing. Redefine some things in a positive way.
Dating sites are not embarrassing, they are fun, so many people you can meet!
Life will hit you but you will shrug it off and keep moving forward.
"It ain't about how hard you hit, it's about how hard youc can get hit, how much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning's done".
Contacting her for any reason, even to apologize is disastrous, no matter what anyone else tells you.
Because I'm speaking from personal experience and from what I read and saw actually happening instead of what I think would/should happen.
In other words, I have experience in this matter and not just theory of what should be happening.
What happened is that she got turned off. Probably you didn't have confidence and the date turned awkward somehow and by apologizing (and it depends on how you did it) it made things even worse.
Lacking confidence and apologizing for something minor, sinks attraction fast and it is not manly.
Apologizing in itself is not bad, the bad thing is trying to seek her approval. That's a huge turn off.
No offense, but what went wrong I presume is that she probably found you boring and not fun and lacking confidence.
Like the countless guys out there.
She is approached and talked to by those guys all the time and she probably was like: "*sigh* Another one of those boring guys... Neeeext."
And she probably blocked you because of that reason, so you don't try to contact her.
What you should have done going on that date is not caring how things turn out. Have fun, joke around, tease her, act with confidence and like someone that is fun to be around with.
These are common mistakes many guys do. These are mistakes I did, some time ago. Being a boring guy, with no confidence and that was a chore probably to be around with girls.
And when things didn't go the way I wanted to: "Oh sorry, I didn't want to do that" and bombarding them with messages, apologizing and trying to "explain".
It's what I have been saying, if you don't care how the date goes, don't care if she will like you or not, don't care if the date went wrong or she didn't like you, you will be a happier man and more carefree and confident.
Why do you think alcohol is called liquid courage? Because it numbs your worries and you just have fun without caring, to a point. That makes you more confident and more fun.
Carefreeness = Confidence = Happiness.
But.
Listening to a guy say that you just shouldn't "care" about a date that I have taken the time to get dressed up, make room in my schedule, put forth the effort to meet someone new, perhaps even spend money at a movie or a dinner or whatever, is an extreme turn-off to me.
Again, I'm not experienced in the ways of dating, so I can't speak for this particular situation. But that's just my first impression. You should care, at least a little. Caring shows interest in her well-being, and interest in your own as well--after all, if she's having a good time, it should mean you're having a good time too, right? (And if not, don't be afraid to say so, most girls don't want to put you through any misery just for their sake!)
If she didn't have a good time, she didn't have a good time. Sometimes, that's just how things work out. Don't flood her mailbox with apologies. Not because it screams "I have no confidence," but "I'm a potential stalker who won't leave you alone." I mean, how would you feel if you got a dozen texts from some girl you didn't know that well after a not-so-great date? (Not to say it was a dozen... But sometimes, it's just better to let things go.)
I do agree that you shouldn't get too hung-up over it though. There's more fish in the sea, as they say.
It's a fun experiment and if it doesn't work, move on.
And flooding her mailbox screams both things. Personally, I think it screams "please answer me, give me some attention and talk to me". That screams a lack of confidence. That's a turn off, awkward and annoying.
Of course I would run to the hills if a girl flooded my mailbox but if she was very cute I would find it charming, at least in the beginning.
But it's one of the things that you don't realize at the moment and you do it. Because I know I did a long time ago, trying to get the attention of my first ex.
So I'm talking first-hand.
If you don't care about the outcome of the date, it's a much more relaxed and fun date.
This might sound unromantic but it's pretty much the truth and it's directed to the guys above:
Dating is a set of social skills. Just like learning to drive.
If you don't get trained in it, no matter your intentions or good-will, if you don't know what you're doing, you are going to crash.
Those social skills are meant to be taught by the father figure or big brother.
It's natural and pretty much how our ancestors did it. The same way you're taught how to behave, talk or how an animal teaches its young to hunt.
There's nothing disrespectful or "immoral" by learning how to be attractive to a girl.
The girls themselves learn how to be attractive to guys by the way they talk, behave and dress.
They're giving you a tool, you decide how to use it.
This is what those dating experts or gurus are supposed to do. Teach you those skills. If you learn how to "score", be confident and attractive (like body language etc) then you can get the girlfriend you want as well.
She's not going to suddenly appear and fall in love with you. You must go out there and find her.
And something else that is important. If you don't know what you're doing, you might settle with someone that you don't like as much but beggars cannot be choosers.
If you know what you're doing, you can choose the girlfriend or wife or whatever you want and be happy and satisfied that you found someone amazing and not someone that is "meh".
It's a fine line. It's a very fine line.
Well, generally be relaxed next time and just have fun. I have more or less said what I had to say.
Start talking to yourself in a positive way all the time (or just think to yourself) and don't worry.
On the topic of caring/not caring;
There's a difference between 'not caring' in which you show up in your underpants ten minutes late with a distracted "oh hey, what was your name again?" and 'not caring' in which you go into the date with the mindset "whatever'll happen, will happen, doesn't matter much as long as we have a good time".
Not caring much about the date is bad, not caring much about the result...better.
In my experience (and with that, the experiences I've seen with friends and such), most dates go wrong if one sets out on the date with the thought "I need to do this perfectly so we can get married in five years". Anybody who reads this knows it to be insane. Yet a lot of people have exactly this frame of mind when sitting down with someone they're interested in. It's almost automatic, especially if you have low self esteem. Because in that case, it also adds the line "because no-one else will be interested in me, ever" to the thing, upping the pressure.
I've had a few bad dates. Some were my fault ("So, what do you like? Me too, I like everything you like, you're amazing. I like your skin. That is pretty skin. CALL ME!") and not my fault ("Oh wow, you want kids before the end of the year. No...I don't have any weird heriditary diseases in the family..."). I only stopped fu- messing up when I realised that if a lady was interested in me, that didn't mean she was a gracious and perfect specimen of womanhood that I should be forever grateful for.
When my self confidence rose (due to work and friends and a nightmare relationship which left me destitute, long story for another time, but it oddly helped) I realised that not every woman talking to me was automaticly the mother of my children. I talked to a lot of ladies and for the first time in years, didn't put that pressure on myself OR on her (seriously, it's pretty obvious if you're talking to someone who sees you as their lifepartner right away, it's creepy) which smoothed contact, which boosted my self confidence some more. For the first time in years I felt I could talk about what *I* liked without being embarassed ("I'm a dungeon master, check out my basement!" still doesn't work though, be careful) and I found that it's actually easier to connect with people if you give them something of yourself to connect to, instead of dodging all interest questions with "Yeah, I like games and TV and stuff. HEY, so tell me ALL about you and let's not talk about me.". It allowed me to meet people that liked what I had to say and I liked saying things again, which is likable.
Anyway, long story short;
It's not "don't care" as much as "Don't go in with giant hopes and expectations".
Like yourself before you ask someone else to like you.
If they don't want a followup date and block you on facebook, they don't want to talk to you. This means, don't talk to them.
If at first you don't succeed, try again.
If at 50th you don't succeed, kidnap the object of your desire and tie him/her to the train tracks until they love you.
Although taking her to the basement on a first date is pretty...um...bold. >.>;;
@Drugar She did want to plan a second date but i fked up again that night by being all lovey dovey when saying goodnight to her. I think that is what may have set her off.
but whatever.
Not my problem.
Currently, anyway.
Does that makes sense?
In a perfect world, we would just find someone, get to know them, boom, they are in a relationship and marriage.
If this worked, we wouldn't have people that "teach" how to meet and be attractive to girls and we wouldn't have unhappy relationships or people saying "this girl is not talking to me, I don't know what I did wrong".
It is flirting. It is learning how to flirt and how to be your best self. They are a set of social skills that apply to dating.
If you send a biography, aren't pleople telling you "you should write this that way and say this thing and don't say this, it will make a better impression".
It's the same thing, learning what to say and how to say it, how to act and not come off as needy or boring or whatever. How to keep the date going on a high note and be interesting and funny.
It might seem like an algorithm but that's the nature of the beast.
@meagloth Yes, you shouldn't because those are just natural skills that we should have been taught by our family or friends as we grow up.
Like I said, if a pup or other animal doesn't learn how to hunt by it's family, how is it supposed to know how to hunt?
If you don't learn how to flirt somehow, how are you supposed to flirt and be attractive?
Another more realistic example. In an ideal world, you meet with someone, you get to know them, you get into a relationship.
But if you don't know how to do it properly, you might come off as needy, lacking confidence, creepy, boring, offensive, nervous, a loser or not masculine.
This is what those people teach you. How to be confident and fun to be around with girls, nothing more.
Scoring, relationships etc come afterwards. When you know how to approach and talk to them and you chosen someone.
Don't you think that there's a reason many highschool girls like a particular type of guy that was usually a douchebag or bully? Not all.
But I can remember a few in my school.
It's not about being a douchebag, it's about being confident or "cool" as they were, while you're a respectful and interesting person.
Some people figure all this naturally by trial and error and keep doing what works unconsciously without seeing a handbook or anything.
Don't you have a friend that is just good with the girls and popular with them?
And the girls are pretty aware of such things. Many girl magazines have titles such as:
"How to make him want you. How to become irresistible to him. How to make him think of you all day."
I think the idea is to find a partner attracted to you, not your confidence or whatever.
This is probably a less popular opinion, but I don't get the whole search for love idea. Love will come, just be patient. Unless you're a complete hermit who never goes outside. In that case I would suggest you go back to your room and cry for the rest of your life, or get out more. This is why dating sites don't make any sense to me, except for scientific data collection. You should not want a girlfriend. You should want amy or gina, or whatever her name is. Having a partner just for the sake of having a partner or social status or feeling fulfilled is all to common won't get you anywhere. I see it a lot from my position, and it's pathetic.
"Being yourself" is the most generic and vague dating advice in existence, really.
If all you had to do is "be yourself" there wouldn't be people complaining how their dating failed, how they cannot get a girlfriend or why their relationship is not going well.
If someone's self is to be boring, insulting and really nervous or come off as creepy and needy?
It's not creating a facade, it's improving yourself to what you want to be like working out.
Instead of working out your body, you work out your character, personality and inner self.
You're still your self, you're just improving it to become more attractive.
Girls are improving themselves why makeup, clothes or learning to be more desirable etc.
Why shouldn't men learn how to do that? And looks are less important for girls, that it is for guys.
Haven't you heard constantly what girls say? "Someone that is confident, funny and not boring."
When a poll is made of what characteristic women want humor and confidence comes first.
And no, love doesn't come on it's own. Maybe from luck you might meet someone and fall in love with them. What if they don't find you attractive?
Love coming on it's own is a romantic idea but it's not true, I'm sorry. You must learn to meet people and how to communicate with girls in an attractive way.
Dating sites are about meeting people. You cannot be everywhere all the time. But if people are on dating sites, you can find them and get to know them. Then you can arrange a meeting and see where it goes.
There's nothing wrong with meeting people, dating sites just makes it easier and more convenient.
It's just a tool to know people easier.
Yes, you might want Gina or Amy or whatever. Does Amy want you though? Or she thinks that you're weird or whatever or just not her type?
Obsessing over one girl is not healthy. You should meet various people and choose to focus on the ones that interest you.
Obviously. I'm saying that you can apply it to dating as well.
"Just be yourself" is way too generic and vague to be a valid dating advice. You can be yourself but part of your personality traits can be creepy or awkward.
I'm saying that you must learn to master those and improve them.
Yes, laughter is important. Laughter also shows confidence and being in comfort and relaxed. You cannot be humorous if you're anxious and nervous, it will come off as forced.
Yes, see an opportunity and seize it. You can also go and make those opportunities happen. Maybe your future girlfriend is that girl on the bus that you will never know unless you talk to.
Maybe she will be just a really great friend with cuter girlfriends.
Be active, not passive.
I disagree that you should only have a partner because you love them.
How are you going to love them if you don't meet them and get to know them?
And if your personality has some very awful and creepy traits or you're not confident, you might lose her for someone that is more interesting.
Other people go into relationships for having someone to have sex with and/or cuddle and talk to. Love is only one reason to go into a relationship and that's okay.
If hypothetical Amy doesn't like you, why is that? Something you did that turned her off? Maybe you were too needy or pushing or didn't leave her time to breathe?
There are many reasons a girl might not want you. Many of those reasons are things you can change about yourself and within your control to improve.
This is what this is all about. "Optimizing" yourself to be the person you want and someone that is a catch to be with.
Improve your best personality characteristics and eliminate your bad ones.
One of those bad characteristics might be calling her all the time and obsessing over her or being really nervous and lacking confidence.
And I'll be honest, no offence but "being yourself" is a lazy advice.
Would you tell an athlete "well you did your best and failed, be yourself and move on" or "you need more practice and you can do it if you learn how"?
Why not try to improve yourself to be more attractive instead of giving up and keep doing the same thing without improving and failing again?
If you keep doing the same things that made you fail, you will fail again.
If you learn what you did wrong and improve, you will succeed.
This applies to everything.
Are you saying it's ok to have a relationship for sex and not love them? Cause if you are that's something we toltally disagree on. Sex really shouldn't be the driving factor in a relationship, and if you don't love him/her I don't even know what to say. That's a terrible analogy. Dating is not a sport, and dates are not athletes. Your not trying to win. This is where we differ. I don't really like the whole concept of dating. It's far to official, with named stages and such. You are either a couple or your not. You go from acquaintances to friends to couple and that's that. It isn't that's simple.
It's not about failing. You don't fail or succeed at a date, if you do, you're going about it all wrong. You should just go out to see if you like this person, and they like you back. There shouldn't be all this stress of wether or not you will 'win' her. If it doesn't work, then it wasn't meant to be and you move on. It's not a competition. It's an experiment.
That aside I don't like this 'one size fits all' dating advice. One should really talk to real friends who know both parties, and figure out what to do case by case. Don't ask random people on the internet like me and archaos(no offense, but neither of us know what's going on, really).
Though I'm probably just a young, sheltered idealist to naive to accept the way the world really is. What would I know, anyway. I've never even been on a date:/ I've said more than my fair share on how I think the world should be, and I'll shut up now.