This is surely an overstatement, @the_sextein , I can't agree with that, sorry (would you be so kind to provide an explanation of how the original 1998 version works better than 2.5?). And numerous patch delays happened not because we wanted to fix more than a couple of bugs.
The path finding works in the original 1998 version. Yeah it had some annoyances and for a while Beamdog was improving on them but now the game is broke while the 1998 one works just fine as it has for decades. I have to use The Bigg's Widescreen mod and sacrifice some resolution but I can at least play it.
According to steam users the old versions of the game do not work properly. If steam and gog can do it though, then why can't Beamdog? Is it seriously that hard to have some customer support? I'm not going to request keys from you guys and then transfer my game to steam just to find out that they are broken beta versions that don't work anymore. Does anyone at Beamdog know if they actually work or is the stance that it's Steam's problem and not yours? Does SOD and BG1 still work together when they don't match anymore? I doubt it.
I see hundreds of bug fixes in these patches from Beamdog over the years and 99% of them I have either never noticed, experienced or cared. I'm not trying to put down Beamdog's efforts. I've stood up for them and supported their improvements toward these games even if the improvements were not very important to me. I also understand that mistakes happen and I'm not upset in the least that the game was broken. The problem isn't even the communication. It's the fact that I spent hundreds of dollars and can't play my game for over a year. The critical problems need to be fixed instead of trying to push hundreds of minor bug fixes into the patch and delaying it for years.
The information was there to fix LOB mode within a week of it being broken. Switching back to the last working version of the game when it concerns path finding would take a few hours of someone's time to upload it. It's not asking that much.
The path finding works in the original 1998 version.
Just have to LoL at this and clearly someone needs to take off their rose coloured glasses.
Also the pathfinding bug (I want to assume it is the one where character get stuck in each other) has a in game work around where you literally move one character through a door at a time instead of point clicking everyone through. Makes moving a bit more tedious, but not “OMG this is UNPLAYABLE”
Yeah man, keep making excuses and have an lol at yourself for not having any standards at all. The 1998 version plays better, it's a fact, time to get over yourself.
Yeah man, keep making excuses and have an lol at yourself for not having any standards at all. The 1998 version plays better, it's a fact, time to get over yourself.
Ok. I am over myself.
Feel free to boot up the 98 version without the LOB mode, you k is one of the things you literally just said you need to play with to enjoy this game.
Actually, no I never said I need it. I would like to use it since it's one of the only things Beamdog offers over the original but I'd be willing to mod it myself since they can't be bothered. The problem is the path finding, It needs fixed 9 months ago.
Just so you know, I have booted up the original, had to install an old CD drive on my PC which I haven't used in years but it got the job done. The problem is that I paid $150 for SOD and it can't be played.
Steam, Beamdog and GOG versions are not different and all work. I've linked an option to roll back to 2.3 on Steam. You asked for "a separate button on the Beamdog Client to download the previous version of the game", I've provided a link to a solution which is similar to that.
What do you mean you "spent hundreds of dollars"? What do you mean you "can't play a game for over a year"?
I literally spent hundreds of dollars and literally have not been able to play the game for over a year. I'll check the links you provided and see if SOD actually works with BG1EE and if so then cool. I'll download it and stop bothering with this ridiculous site after that.
Yeah man, keep making excuses and have an lol at yourself for not having any standards at all. The 1998 version plays better, it's a fact, time to get over yourself.
That is not a fact. It is an opinion. Calling your opinion a fact does not make it so.
I play with 6 man parties and guess what? Over 4 or 5 different playthorughs and I saw this pathfinding bug ONCE. The pathfinding is not broken, heck, its leagues better than vanilla BG. And that one time my people got stuck in each other? CTRL-J or do a quick reload. There is zero reason to the games "unplayable."
The path finding works in the original 1998 version.
Just have to LoL at this and clearly someone needs to take off their rose coloured glasses.
Also the pathfinding bug (I want to assume it is the one where character get stuck in each other) has a in game work around where you literally move one character through a door at a time instead of point clicking everyone through. Makes moving a bit more tedious, but not “OMG this is UNPLAYABLE”
I just wanted to point out here (and to anyone else if you don't care) that he is definitely right though. While the enhanced editions are in almost every aspect better, the pathfinding do work better on the old game. This is a fact. Just try both games side by side.
I'm not sure why this is even debated.
Also I'm not sure what specific "pathfinding bug" everyone is talking about as I don't read this forum, but I'm a new buyer of the enhanced editions (started with 2.5) and without having read anything about this at all, I immediately felt that something was wrong with the pathfinding. At first I thought I had rose colored glasses on, yes, and that the old game was also like this, but after a while I could no longer take it, and I booted up a very old BGT installation, just to test this, and it was like night and day.
This is a problem because it's so "in your face" that you can't help but miss a little bit of the old game, even though the new ones are better. This killed the buzz for me and I'm actually holding off a playthrough until 2.6 to see if anything has improved.
It's a fact that the 1998 version does not have game breaking path finding problems and that 2.5 does. It's your opinion that 2.5's game breaking AI is still better than the 1998 version. ThacoBell you are wrong and that is a fact. I think one of the main reasons why standards have dropped so low is that people have been mentally trained to be more accepting. It's presented as being more accepting of others but eventually it's turned into what we have here. people who stand up for and defend lazy, poor standards in the industry and unacceptable degenerate behavior by individuals in the government and general media.
I see peoples standards dropping all the time. People always ask how things get so crazy and out of control. I think it's funny how stupid they all are. It's so obvious why things are the way they are. It's really sad how far things have fallen. Oh well, the worst thing you can do to an ignorant person is continue to leave them ignorant. That way they suffer an whole lifetime of consequences for their ignorant actions. You guys deserve this shitty game because you actively stand up for it. Have fun with your broken version of the game. I'm moving on and won't be purchasing anything from these guys ever again.
I gave you a year Beamdog it's been long enough. Have fun with the man child fan base who refuses to spend more than 5$ on anything lol.
the pathfinding do work better on the old game. This is a fact.
"A fact is a thing that is known to be consistent with objective reality and can be proven to be true with evidence. For example, "this sentence contains words" is a linguistic fact, and "the sun is a star" is a cosmological fact. Further, "Abraham Lincoln was the 16th President of the United States" and "Abraham Lincoln was assassinated" are also both facts, of the historical type. All of these statements have the epistemic quality of being "ontologically superior" to opinion or interpretation — they are either categorically necessary or supported by adequate historical documentation.
Conversely, while it may be both consistent and true that "most cats are cute", it is not a fact (although in cases of opinion there is an argument for the acceptance of popular opinion as a statement of common wisdom, particularly if ascertained by scientific polling). Generally speaking, facts transcend belief and serve as concrete descriptions of a state of affairs on which beliefs can later be assigned.
The usual test for a statement of fact is verifiability — that is whether it can be demonstrated to correspond to experience. Standard reference works are often used to check facts. Scientific facts are verified by repeatable careful observation or measurement by experiments or other means." --- Wikipedia
It's a fact that the 1998 version does not have game breaking path finding problems and that 2.5 does. It's your opinion that 2.5's game breaking AI is still better than the 1998 version. ThacoBell you are wrong and that is a fact. I think one of the main reasons why standards have dropped so low is that people have been mentally trained to be more accepting. It's presented as being more accepting of others but eventually it's turned into what we have here. people who stand up for and defend lazy, poor standards in the industry and unacceptable degenerate behavior by individuals in the government and general media.
I see peoples standards dropping all the time. People always ask how things get so crazy and out of control. I think it's funny how stupid they all are. It's so obvious why things are the way they are. It's really sad how far things have fallen. Oh well, the worst thing you can do to an ignorant person is continue to leave them ignorant. That way they suffer an whole lifetime of consequences for their ignorant actions. You guys deserve this shitty game because you actively stand up for it. Have fun with your broken version of the game. I'm moving on and won't be purchasing anything from these guys ever again.
I gave you a year Beamdog it's been long enough. Have fun with the man child fan base who refuses to spend more than 5$ on anything lol.
Give it up.
Nothing in BG:EE is game breaking. Stop using that term to display your annoyance at something that was made slightly more tedious.
You were given 2 fixes within the first hour of you posting this (one of which you literally requested - a reversion) and are still complaining for complaining sakes.
If you want to experience a “game breaking bug” go play Civ Beyond Earth on Windows 10 and tell me if you get past the second loading screen without a CtD. That’s game breaking, and makes the game literally unplayable.
You can also take all your personal insults you are directing at users who disagree with you and check them before you get flagged. I think everyone hear understands your frustration of wanting a fix and having to wait close to a year for this issue. Just stop exaggerating.
Trying to beat someone with political correctness rather than admit that it is in fact, poor compared to the original. This is why the world sucks and why you deserve to live in it. You deserve far worse insults then I am writing here. I'm holding back as much as possible to spare myself a long post of pure hate but realize that I don't care about retarded flags and being banned because I no longer care about this site or these borked games that you will defend to the death.
Trying to beat someone with political correctness rather than admit that it is in fact, poor compared to the original. This is why the world sucks and why you deserve to live in it. You deserve far worse insults then I am writing here. I'm holding back as much as possible to spare myself a long post of pure hate but realize that I don't care about retarded flags and being banned because I no longer care about this site or these borked games that you will defend to the death.
Once Again:
There is nothing political about using improper terms when complaining about something. You are not stating facts, you are stating an opinions.
And ya, all those first world problems regarding a 20 dollar video game sure add up to another exaggeration that life sucks.
@lefreut as I said, feel free to complain about the bugs. I agree, and have agreed since Beamdog went to bigger patch cycles at the request of the community that quick fixes are better than large patches. I just have a problem with using exaggeration, or spamming the same complaint daily just because a person doesn’t like the official response that was given. A patch is allegedly about to drop, but I am not holding my breath to what Beamdog says.
The simple fact that people are playing the games and have finished the games, makes the claim of "unplayable" verifiably false. If you want to be taken seriously, stop the hyperbole.
The simple fact that people are playing the games and have finished the games, makes the claim of "unplayable" verifiably false. If you want to be taken seriously, stop the hyperbole.
I said "for me", I think I know better than you what I find unplayable.
After more than 8 months of wait where Beamdog has done nothing, I think it's understandable that some players are pissed and complains.
For me it's already too late, I no longer care at what they do as I'm pretty sure they will never fix the things that matters to me. And soon I will not longer care about this forum as I feel less and less welcome here.
People are also getting high on cocain and living until they are elderly like Ozzy Osbourne. Doesn't mean it itsn't bad for you. My statement about political correctness had to do with the post by Tresset. I think I have made 2 complaints about this over the course of a year and I spent $150 on the collectors edition of SOD plus $20 on BG 1 and $20 on BG2 so $190. Keep blathering on about things you know nothing about. Continue to be proven wrong repeatadly. Maybe if you didn't play in bitch mode you would realize that getting stuck on each other and on enemies can cost you the fight and problems In BG2 caused me to have to reload 10 times just to get on with the story line at one point. Did this happen in the old 1998 version? NOPE> It is not defensible after a year. Not to mention that I had to mod the game myself to get LOB mode to actually work.
Tresset was pointing out what you were saying wasn’t “fact” it was opinion.
You are allowed to have your own opinions. You are not allowed to have your own facts.
I am sorry for your experience playing the game, I truly am. I can see in your situation where it can be frustrating and wanting to rage quit. The situation is comparable to NWN2 camera IMO. I personally couldn’t enjoy the game because of it, but that didn’t mean it wasn’t unplayable even though I refused to play it and it’s still vibrant community today speaks for its success.
Once again the bug is rare. I have gotten NPCS stuck to each other in doorways and I can usually wiggle them out but I have never had an enemy and a NPC stuck on one another.
But it’s still a 20 dollar game even though you doled out for the collectors edition. There is nothing wrong with the dice, medallion, art book and cloth map that you actually spent the extra $130 on (even though it might have taken you longer than normal to get it) and if it frustrates you that much, entertain yourself in another way.
For me it's already too late, I no longer care at what they do as I'm pretty sure they will never fix the things that matters to me. And soon I will not longer care about this forum as I feel less and less welcome here.
I share your sentiment, though for me it's not about feeling welcome, but rather about trying to avoid the futility of being the lone voice shouting into the wind. Pathfinding issues notwithstanding, there's only so many times we can complain that X regression is still not fixed after Y years, and only so many times our concerns are dismissed before it becomes evident that Beamdog doesn't care. At some point it's our fault for not getting the hints.
I'm not allowed to have facts? If my game has problems and I state that it has those problems then it is a fact. If you are not having that problem it doesn't mean I'm wrong. Every time I use a spell that requires a mage to touch an enemy, the mage will walk up to them and stutter around unable to cast the spell. I've had my party spawn on top of themselves in a room while I'm being attacked and had to reload multiple times to continue on. I had fighters get stuck on enemy units when I'm trying to rush a mage. These are facts weather you like it or not. Since I can't play the game in this state, and I use LOB mode that has the wrong saving throws, it is in fact broken. If it doesn't do that for you for some strange reason then great but it IS broken for me and that is a fact. I don't have these problems on the original game and never did at any point during the 20 years I played it.
Tresset wasn't even replying to me BTW. If you look someone else was being quoted. I simply replied because I see people use political correctness and post long explanations of terminology from a dictionary when they know exactly what the person they are arguing with is saying but instead focus on the technicality of terms to win an argument or make someone else look foolish even when they are correct. It happens a lot today especially in the media.
I don't care if I paid 2 dollars or 200. It should not take a year to make a patch that focuses on the biggest problems. BTW, I have entertained myself in other ways. Like playing other peoples games that are in a working state. It's frustrating to have paid good money for a game that I already owned and worked for 20 years for a few ease of use improvements and now I can't play it. Especially since this is an old favorite of mine.
Tresset wasn't even replying to me BTW. If you look someone else was being quoted. I simply replied because I see people use political correctness and post long explanations of terminology from a dictionary when they know exactly what the person they are arguing with is saying but instead focus on the technicality of terms to win an argument or make someone else look foolish even when they are correct. It happens a lot today especially in the media.
Tresset will speak for himself, thank you very much! That definition was meant just as much for you as for the other person that called their opinion a "fact". That the issues with the games you mention exist is indeed a fact, but statements like "The 1998 version plays better, it's a fact..." and "the pathfinding do work better on the old game. This is a fact." are N-O-T NOT statements of fact! These are very much opinions, and in both cases they were referred to as "facts".
I would also like to point out that I despise political correctness and I resent the implication that I have used it. I am only concerned with actual correctness and what is actually true. I believe that political correctness is a tool people use to beat around the bush and avoid offending people when they are afraid to call it like it is. I do not stoop to using such tactics.
That the 2.5 version has pathfinding issues is a fact.
That these pathfinding issues make the game unplayable is an opinion, which varies from player to player. I doubt anyone really enjoys pathfinding issues, but the amount by which players are bothered by them may vary from player to player.
For example, players that play a solo character will experience this issue far less than players that play with a party. And even among players that play with a party, players that often moves their characters individually to spread out and explore faster will experience this issue far less than a players that always move their characters in a group.
But even among players that experience this issue by the same amount, one player may hardly care, another player may just Ctrl-J out of it, and a third player would get highly frustrated over the fact.
Me personally, I don't like using 'cheats' midgame. It doesn't sit well with me, even if it's something as mundane as Ctrl-J without crossing a chasm. So every time my characters get stuck, I have to sit there and wait for 30 seconds before they finally break apart. Sometimes, I'm scrolling across the map, and then notice only four of my characters entering the screen. Scrolling back to find out two of them got stuck, and then having to wait longer for them is annoying. So for me personally, the 2.5 version is unplayable, because I'm getting too frustrated and annoyed to enjoy the game. That however, is my opinion, and definitely not a fact.
The way some people are reacting in this thread, you'd think Beamdog murdered their families. This is a game people. Calm down. We all want fixes, but having to deal with some bugs in a game isn't going to ruin your lives.
It would be nice to get an ETA on the patch though, so back on topic of the thread, @JuliusBorisov are we getting close to the 2.6 patch? You said we're probably dealing in weeks now, so my hopes are getting up.
Tresset, We both know your comment was not aimed at me. Go ahead and try to twist things against me just like you were doing to the other guy when I put you in your place.
The 2.5 version is bugged. FACT. If you want to pretend that I'm wrong by hiding behind political correctness and say that technically it's up to opinion blah blah..... We all know it's worse than the original 1998 version of the game and you just can't help but cry and wail when someone states a fact that you don't like. You and all of the other apologists that stand up for and allow this level of incompetence to continue with your "tolerance"... You despise political correctness? I seriously doubt you even know what political correctness is but go ahead and do a textbook definition copy/paste like a predictable millennial, maybe you will learn something this time. Sometimes there is more to terms than textbook definition and the way they are applied is important. Common sense is especially important in this case.
The moderation team will decide what is the best action based on the comments in this thread.
I, being a dev rep, can assure you: every bit of feedback helps. @the_sextein You've been one of the few active forum users who created awesome posts about playing the LoB mode and how SoD is the best game, better than Pillars and Divinity. I remember and cherish those comments.
I think there has been a lot of hot water lately in terms of players' feelings about the lack of patches and bugs. I, and others on the team, suffer the same - we are not OK with the game being in this state, and being it for months and months. We're not OK with bugs like the popping characters being so visible and noticeable and influential during you play the game. We're sorry it takes so much time to fix. We're sorry each patch brings new bugs.
It's a very sad day when a player who bought a limited copy of SoD CE starts regretting their purchase.
This is one of the best gaming forums there ever have been online. People like @lefreut , @Adul - they have done so much while beta-testing, reporting bugs, and creating mods. A lot of other players of these games enjoy the products of those reports. It hurts me to read that players feel no longer welcome here, it hurts when you call this site "ridiculous". There are not many places online where you can still openly and freely discuss Infinity Engine games with fellow players, and a few of them have their own difficulties. I'm proud of this forum and consider it a part of myself. It's also a part of each of you here, from users with 1-10 comments to users with several thousands of comments.
Every time an old user says "ban me", I'm not happy. To ban a user, you only have to press one button. But a decision comes after dozens of comments between moderators, considering the history of the user and their willingness to cooperate. If we ban right and left all veterans, our Infinity Engine community - with years - will keep losing people. It's very sad for each of us. But sometimes there is just no choice. The Site Rules are there for everyone to read, and we as moderators follow them. We expect every other user will follow them.
It's a very sad moment when a bug becomes so irritating that a user with hundreds of comments goes rogue and starts throwing personal attacks on their fellow forumites. Time will pass, and this all will start looking differently.
As a developer rep - I hear you, and our dev team is well aware of those problems, and many other problems with Infinity Engine games. As a moderator, I have my own view on those rule-breaking posts.
But as a general user, I'm the saddest of all. This is a defeat for everyone: the game still has a bug, this bug is still so irritating people start using a "game-breaking" term when they describe it, the date of the patch hasn't been announced, the last patch was released more than one year ago. And the community loses one of its veterans.
We all went through different difficult times: the BG:EE initial release, the SoD release, - pick yourself. We survived it all and moved forward, becoming stronger. We got PST:EE. We got NWN:EE. We got new patches with new content for IE games. This is wrong to throw that all away, even considering those problems mentioned in this thread.
I don't have any conclusion for everyone here. As a general user, I just don't want to see all these fights and all these accusations which harm this awesome community and harm this forum, one of the rarest gaming forums these days.
I'm sorry to be "that guy" after that post, but if you feel like that, and truly want to reduce the anger here, why won't you just say what the 2.6 patch will contain, and give an estimate on release of it? Why all this secrecy? That's what's making people angry and restless after all.
@lefreut He also had previous history of the exact same type of behavior and was warned for it multiple times before this. After the first few rude posts here, he was given an ultimatum to stop being rude or face a ban. He chose to ignore it... All of the moderators agreed upon the decision to ban him, myself included.
Comments
BTW, there's a way to use the old version https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/611h5e/guide_how_to_download_older_versions_of_a_game_on/ and https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/71638/guide-downgrading-bg2ee-to-v2-3-67-3-using-the-steam-console (having a copy from Beamdog means you can get a Steam key).
According to steam users the old versions of the game do not work properly. If steam and gog can do it though, then why can't Beamdog? Is it seriously that hard to have some customer support? I'm not going to request keys from you guys and then transfer my game to steam just to find out that they are broken beta versions that don't work anymore. Does anyone at Beamdog know if they actually work or is the stance that it's Steam's problem and not yours? Does SOD and BG1 still work together when they don't match anymore? I doubt it.
I see hundreds of bug fixes in these patches from Beamdog over the years and 99% of them I have either never noticed, experienced or cared. I'm not trying to put down Beamdog's efforts. I've stood up for them and supported their improvements toward these games even if the improvements were not very important to me. I also understand that mistakes happen and I'm not upset in the least that the game was broken. The problem isn't even the communication. It's the fact that I spent hundreds of dollars and can't play my game for over a year. The critical problems need to be fixed instead of trying to push hundreds of minor bug fixes into the patch and delaying it for years.
The information was there to fix LOB mode within a week of it being broken. Switching back to the last working version of the game when it concerns path finding would take a few hours of someone's time to upload it. It's not asking that much.
Also the pathfinding bug (I want to assume it is the one where character get stuck in each other) has a in game work around where you literally move one character through a door at a time instead of point clicking everyone through. Makes moving a bit more tedious, but not “OMG this is UNPLAYABLE”
Feel free to boot up the 98 version without the LOB mode, you k is one of the things you literally just said you need to play with to enjoy this game.
Just so you know, I have booted up the original, had to install an old CD drive on my PC which I haven't used in years but it got the job done. The problem is that I paid $150 for SOD and it can't be played.
What do you mean you "spent hundreds of dollars"? What do you mean you "can't play a game for over a year"?
That is not a fact. It is an opinion. Calling your opinion a fact does not make it so.
I just wanted to point out here (and to anyone else if you don't care) that he is definitely right though. While the enhanced editions are in almost every aspect better, the pathfinding do work better on the old game. This is a fact. Just try both games side by side.
I'm not sure why this is even debated.
Also I'm not sure what specific "pathfinding bug" everyone is talking about as I don't read this forum, but I'm a new buyer of the enhanced editions (started with 2.5) and without having read anything about this at all, I immediately felt that something was wrong with the pathfinding. At first I thought I had rose colored glasses on, yes, and that the old game was also like this, but after a while I could no longer take it, and I booted up a very old BGT installation, just to test this, and it was like night and day.
This is a problem because it's so "in your face" that you can't help but miss a little bit of the old game, even though the new ones are better. This killed the buzz for me and I'm actually holding off a playthrough until 2.6 to see if anything has improved.
I see peoples standards dropping all the time. People always ask how things get so crazy and out of control. I think it's funny how stupid they all are. It's so obvious why things are the way they are. It's really sad how far things have fallen. Oh well, the worst thing you can do to an ignorant person is continue to leave them ignorant. That way they suffer an whole lifetime of consequences for their ignorant actions. You guys deserve this shitty game because you actively stand up for it. Have fun with your broken version of the game. I'm moving on and won't be purchasing anything from these guys ever again.
I gave you a year Beamdog it's been long enough. Have fun with the man child fan base who refuses to spend more than 5$ on anything lol.
"A fact is a thing that is known to be consistent with objective reality and can be proven to be true with evidence. For example, "this sentence contains words" is a linguistic fact, and "the sun is a star" is a cosmological fact. Further, "Abraham Lincoln was the 16th President of the United States" and "Abraham Lincoln was assassinated" are also both facts, of the historical type. All of these statements have the epistemic quality of being "ontologically superior" to opinion or interpretation — they are either categorically necessary or supported by adequate historical documentation.
Conversely, while it may be both consistent and true that "most cats are cute", it is not a fact (although in cases of opinion there is an argument for the acceptance of popular opinion as a statement of common wisdom, particularly if ascertained by scientific polling). Generally speaking, facts transcend belief and serve as concrete descriptions of a state of affairs on which beliefs can later be assigned.
The usual test for a statement of fact is verifiability — that is whether it can be demonstrated to correspond to experience. Standard reference works are often used to check facts. Scientific facts are verified by repeatable careful observation or measurement by experiments or other means." --- Wikipedia
Give it up.
Nothing in BG:EE is game breaking. Stop using that term to display your annoyance at something that was made slightly more tedious.
You were given 2 fixes within the first hour of you posting this (one of which you literally requested - a reversion) and are still complaining for complaining sakes.
If you want to experience a “game breaking bug” go play Civ Beyond Earth on Windows 10 and tell me if you get past the second loading screen without a CtD. That’s game breaking, and makes the game literally unplayable.
You can also take all your personal insults you are directing at users who disagree with you and check them before you get flagged. I think everyone hear understands your frustration of wanting a fix and having to wait close to a year for this issue. Just stop exaggerating.
Once Again:
There is nothing political about using improper terms when complaining about something. You are not stating facts, you are stating an opinions.
And ya, all those first world problems regarding a 20 dollar video game sure add up to another exaggeration that life sucks.
@lefreut as I said, feel free to complain about the bugs. I agree, and have agreed since Beamdog went to bigger patch cycles at the request of the community that quick fixes are better than large patches. I just have a problem with using exaggeration, or spamming the same complaint daily just because a person doesn’t like the official response that was given. A patch is allegedly about to drop, but I am not holding my breath to what Beamdog says.
I said "for me", I think I know better than you what I find unplayable.
After more than 8 months of wait where Beamdog has done nothing, I think it's understandable that some players are pissed and complains.
For me it's already too late, I no longer care at what they do as I'm pretty sure they will never fix the things that matters to me. And soon I will not longer care about this forum as I feel less and less welcome here.
You are allowed to have your own opinions. You are not allowed to have your own facts.
I am sorry for your experience playing the game, I truly am. I can see in your situation where it can be frustrating and wanting to rage quit. The situation is comparable to NWN2 camera IMO. I personally couldn’t enjoy the game because of it, but that didn’t mean it wasn’t unplayable even though I refused to play it and it’s still vibrant community today speaks for its success.
Once again the bug is rare. I have gotten NPCS stuck to each other in doorways and I can usually wiggle them out but I have never had an enemy and a NPC stuck on one another.
But it’s still a 20 dollar game even though you doled out for the collectors edition. There is nothing wrong with the dice, medallion, art book and cloth map that you actually spent the extra $130 on (even though it might have taken you longer than normal to get it) and if it frustrates you that much, entertain yourself in another way.
I share your sentiment, though for me it's not about feeling welcome, but rather about trying to avoid the futility of being the lone voice shouting into the wind. Pathfinding issues notwithstanding, there's only so many times we can complain that X regression is still not fixed after Y years, and only so many times our concerns are dismissed before it becomes evident that Beamdog doesn't care. At some point it's our fault for not getting the hints.
Tresset wasn't even replying to me BTW. If you look someone else was being quoted. I simply replied because I see people use political correctness and post long explanations of terminology from a dictionary when they know exactly what the person they are arguing with is saying but instead focus on the technicality of terms to win an argument or make someone else look foolish even when they are correct. It happens a lot today especially in the media.
I don't care if I paid 2 dollars or 200. It should not take a year to make a patch that focuses on the biggest problems. BTW, I have entertained myself in other ways. Like playing other peoples games that are in a working state. It's frustrating to have paid good money for a game that I already owned and worked for 20 years for a few ease of use improvements and now I can't play it. Especially since this is an old favorite of mine.
Tresset will speak for himself, thank you very much! That definition was meant just as much for you as for the other person that called their opinion a "fact". That the issues with the games you mention exist is indeed a fact, but statements like "The 1998 version plays better, it's a fact..." and "the pathfinding do work better on the old game. This is a fact." are N-O-T NOT statements of fact! These are very much opinions, and in both cases they were referred to as "facts".
I would also like to point out that I despise political correctness and I resent the implication that I have used it. I am only concerned with actual correctness and what is actually true. I believe that political correctness is a tool people use to beat around the bush and avoid offending people when they are afraid to call it like it is. I do not stoop to using such tactics.
That these pathfinding issues make the game unplayable is an opinion, which varies from player to player. I doubt anyone really enjoys pathfinding issues, but the amount by which players are bothered by them may vary from player to player.
For example, players that play a solo character will experience this issue far less than players that play with a party. And even among players that play with a party, players that often moves their characters individually to spread out and explore faster will experience this issue far less than a players that always move their characters in a group.
But even among players that experience this issue by the same amount, one player may hardly care, another player may just Ctrl-J out of it, and a third player would get highly frustrated over the fact.
Me personally, I don't like using 'cheats' midgame. It doesn't sit well with me, even if it's something as mundane as Ctrl-J without crossing a chasm. So every time my characters get stuck, I have to sit there and wait for 30 seconds before they finally break apart. Sometimes, I'm scrolling across the map, and then notice only four of my characters entering the screen. Scrolling back to find out two of them got stuck, and then having to wait longer for them is annoying. So for me personally, the 2.5 version is unplayable, because I'm getting too frustrated and annoyed to enjoy the game. That however, is my opinion, and definitely not a fact.
It would be nice to get an ETA on the patch though, so back on topic of the thread, @JuliusBorisov are we getting close to the 2.6 patch? You said we're probably dealing in weeks now, so my hopes are getting up.
The 2.5 version is bugged. FACT. If you want to pretend that I'm wrong by hiding behind political correctness and say that technically it's up to opinion blah blah..... We all know it's worse than the original 1998 version of the game and you just can't help but cry and wail when someone states a fact that you don't like. You and all of the other apologists that stand up for and allow this level of incompetence to continue with your "tolerance"... You despise political correctness? I seriously doubt you even know what political correctness is but go ahead and do a textbook definition copy/paste like a predictable millennial, maybe you will learn something this time. Sometimes there is more to terms than textbook definition and the way they are applied is important. Common sense is especially important in this case.
I, being a dev rep, can assure you: every bit of feedback helps. @the_sextein You've been one of the few active forum users who created awesome posts about playing the LoB mode and how SoD is the best game, better than Pillars and Divinity. I remember and cherish those comments.
I think there has been a lot of hot water lately in terms of players' feelings about the lack of patches and bugs. I, and others on the team, suffer the same - we are not OK with the game being in this state, and being it for months and months. We're not OK with bugs like the popping characters being so visible and noticeable and influential during you play the game. We're sorry it takes so much time to fix. We're sorry each patch brings new bugs.
It's a very sad day when a player who bought a limited copy of SoD CE starts regretting their purchase.
This is one of the best gaming forums there ever have been online. People like @lefreut , @Adul - they have done so much while beta-testing, reporting bugs, and creating mods. A lot of other players of these games enjoy the products of those reports. It hurts me to read that players feel no longer welcome here, it hurts when you call this site "ridiculous". There are not many places online where you can still openly and freely discuss Infinity Engine games with fellow players, and a few of them have their own difficulties. I'm proud of this forum and consider it a part of myself. It's also a part of each of you here, from users with 1-10 comments to users with several thousands of comments.
Every time an old user says "ban me", I'm not happy. To ban a user, you only have to press one button. But a decision comes after dozens of comments between moderators, considering the history of the user and their willingness to cooperate. If we ban right and left all veterans, our Infinity Engine community - with years - will keep losing people. It's very sad for each of us. But sometimes there is just no choice. The Site Rules are there for everyone to read, and we as moderators follow them. We expect every other user will follow them.
It's a very sad moment when a bug becomes so irritating that a user with hundreds of comments goes rogue and starts throwing personal attacks on their fellow forumites. Time will pass, and this all will start looking differently.
As a developer rep - I hear you, and our dev team is well aware of those problems, and many other problems with Infinity Engine games. As a moderator, I have my own view on those rule-breaking posts.
But as a general user, I'm the saddest of all. This is a defeat for everyone: the game still has a bug, this bug is still so irritating people start using a "game-breaking" term when they describe it, the date of the patch hasn't been announced, the last patch was released more than one year ago. And the community loses one of its veterans.
We all went through different difficult times: the BG:EE initial release, the SoD release, - pick yourself. We survived it all and moved forward, becoming stronger. We got PST:EE. We got NWN:EE. We got new patches with new content for IE games. This is wrong to throw that all away, even considering those problems mentioned in this thread.
I don't have any conclusion for everyone here. As a general user, I just don't want to see all these fights and all these accusations which harm this awesome community and harm this forum, one of the rarest gaming forums these days.
I'm sorry to be "that guy" after that post, but if you feel like that, and truly want to reduce the anger here, why won't you just say what the 2.6 patch will contain, and give an estimate on release of it? Why all this secrecy? That's what's making people angry and restless after all.