The rest is hyperbole and isnt constructive (It also just so happens to apply to the GOP as well).
It's fact, stated a bit bluntly, but fact. The media/DNC/Hollywood coalition, including some of the same people he is negotiating with right now, all jumped in to slander children and barely recognize the humanity and Trump and his supporters. If they did, they would treat at least the damn kids with a shred of dignity and honesty. And they do not. Democrat politicians lied about children trying to incite a hate mob. Democrat media lied about children trying to incite a hate mob. The facts were available minutes after the lies spread.
There is no equivalency to the GOP. At their very worst when they were spreading conspiracies about Obama's muslim heritage, never once did they go after innocent and passive 14 year old kids who were being insulted and harassed by adults on video. It's one thing to try to drag the names of grown adults like Kavanaugh, Trump, or Obama through the mud. When powerful people start trying to ruin the lives of kids because they hate their politics at best and are prejudiced against their race at worst, i'm going to have something to say about it.
If you think i'm gonna shut up anytime soon about the political and social leaders of half the country all jumping wholeheartedly into this disgusting charade, i'm afraid you are sadly mistaken.
Funny how several major stories have been frauds in the past few weeks, but it's barely worth mentioning because of the catastrophic failure of the other frauds.
Fact is: this NEVER would happen to liberal activist kids. It would be fact checked, then double fact checked, then confirmed by a dozen different sources, then buried.
The rest is hyperbole and isnt constructive (It also just so happens to apply to the GOP as well).
It's fact, stated a bit bluntly, but fact.
No, it's not fact. And Republicans, the President included, have done things worse than that. I won't belabor the list of things Trump has done, including walking in on young women in the nude behind the scenes at his "Miss America" pageants, by his own words grabbing women by an intinate body part, but I would say those are much worse than slander against some young men. How about kissing women without their permission (also by his own admission)?
There is no equivalency to the GOP. At their very worst when they were spreading conspiracies about Obama's muslim heritage, never once did they go after innocent and passive 14 year old kids who were being insulted and harassed by adults on video. It's one thing to try to drag the names of grown adults like Kavanaugh, Trump, or Obama through the mud. When powerful people start trying to ruin the lives of kids because they hate their politics at best and are prejudiced against their race at worst, i'm going to have something to say about it.
Felipe Gomez Alonzo
Jakelin Caal
I think most here would agree death isnt preferable to slander - but please. Convince me I'm wrong. Clearly the most reprehensible thing to ever happen was the (potential) slandering of kids.
There is no equivalency to the GOP. At their very worst when they were spreading conspiracies about Obama's muslim heritage, never once did they go after innocent and passive 14 year old kids who were being insulted and harassed by adults on video. It's one thing to try to drag the names of grown adults like Kavanaugh, Trump, or Obama through the mud. When powerful people start trying to ruin the lives of kids because they hate their politics at best and are prejudiced against their race at worst, i'm going to have something to say about it.
Felipe Gomez Alonzo
Jakelin Caal
I think most here would agree death isnt preferable to slander - but please. Convince me I'm wrong. Clearly the most reprehensible thing to ever happen was the (potential) slandering of kids.
I am genuinely at a loss as to where you are going with this. Researched the names, one died of an infection and one died of the flu shortly after entering the US. Are you implying adults went out of their way to inflict disease on these kids? Are you saying adults went out of their way to promote the idea of sick children? Are you saying adults celebrate the idea of inadequate medical care to kids, assuming this is actually the case since no article i've seen claims this to be the case?
If not, I can't help but feel like this is an entirely disingenuous comparison.
Trump is also trying to shut down legal immigration. He's been taking away kids from their families. Both of those kids were so sick because they couldn't get into the US through legal channels and had to try and sneak in both attributable to Trump because 1) he's making it harder to get legally into the US and 2) is therefore ultimately responsible for their deaths. Had they been able to cross the border legally, they would not have died. Because of Trump's own actions, he created the refugee camp just outside the border.
Trump is also trying to shut down legal immigration. He's been taking away kids from their families. Both of those kids were so sick because they couldn't get into the US through legal channels and had to try and sneak in both attributable to Trump because 1) he's making it harder to get legally into the US and 2) is therefore ultimately responsible for their deaths. Had they been able to cross the border legally, they would not have died. Because of Trump's own actions, he created the refugee camp just outside the border.
This isn't even true. The one girl died because she tried to make the journey and went several days without water in doing so. By the time she got here she was sent straight to the hospital, it sounds like.
This is what you encourage when you encourage mass immigration south of the border. A dangerous journey where many women are sexually assaulted, many people are exploited, and many people die.
"The girl, who had not eaten or consumed water for several days, began having seizures about eight hours after she was put in CBP custody.
When paramedics arrived, her body temperature was 105.7 degrees. She was taken by helicopter to a hospital in El Paso, Texas.
Once there, the girl went into cardiac arrest and was revived — but later died.
“The child did not recover and died at the hospital less than 24 hours after being transported,” CBP said."
As for the little boy, it sounded like he suddenly turned ill and died even after receiving medical treatment. Which is horrible, and a tragedy. But a consequence of border policy? Explain that one to me.
But i'm still not seeing how border policy is an adequate comparison to targeted slander and harassment by adults to children. Nobody has any malice in the cases mentioned and it sounded like people tried to do the best they could.
The media/DNC/Hollywood coalition, including some of the same people he is negotiating with right now, all jumped in to slander children and barely recognize the humanity and Trump and his supporters. If they did, they would treat at least the damn kids with a shred of dignity and honesty. And they do not. Democrat politicians lied about children trying to incite a hate mob. Democrat media lied about children trying to incite a hate mob.
When powerful people start trying to ruin the lives of kids because they hate their politics at best and are prejudiced against their race at worst, i'm going to have something to say about it.
But i'm still not seeing how border policy is an adequate comparison to targeted slander and harassment by adults to children.
How literally do you mean this? Because if you're attributing this controversy to lies instead of bias, you're talking about a secret conspiracy between (1) news organizations, (2) Democratic politicians, and (3) unnamed Hollywood celebrities or producers who simultaneously decided to organize a secret campaign of intentional lies in order to attack a target (these kids) whose destruction grants them precisely zero practical benefit. Unless you're suggesting that all these people independently and coincidentally made the exact same lie at the exact same time (which itself strains belief), this theory raises several questions:
1. If all these people from all these different places were coordinating a campaign of lies, why wouldn't there be a leak? A conspiracy is a big thing to hide, and it only takes one participant to leak an email showing people telling each other "Let's go get these kids!"
2. If all these people from all these different places were coordinating a campaign of lies, why would they attack a group of nameless kids that no one knew about before? If you had partisan motives, wouldn't you spend your time and energy attacking a major political figure who is less likely to generate sympathy?
3. If all these people from all these different places were coordinating a campaign of lies, how did they coordinate it so incredibly quickly? The controversy arose right after the event.
This seems a little far-fetched, so I thought I'd ask if you meant this scenario literally.
I don't view these kids as sinister figures. But I have a more plausible explanation for why the event generated so much controversy: People misinterpreted the interaction between Phillips and the kids because it looked like yet another clash between Trump supporters and a member of a minority group.
We've already seen other examples of Trump supporters in red hats who, both as groups and as individuals, made verbal attacks on ethnic minorities with no apparent provocation. To clarify, I'm using this to stereotype Trump supporters (that would be pretty gross). I'm using this to establish that this narrative--that these kids in MAGA hats were harassing some guy from a minority group--did not come out of nowhere. It's based on numerous other incidents we've seen over the past 2 years.
Likewise, you, @WarChiefZeke, see yet another anti-white attack by liberals, because it looks like other anti-white attacks you've seen in the past. And I think you're misinterpreting the response to this issue--but I'm not going to accuse you of lying about it.
I think you're reacting to the controversy the same way a lot of folks in the media first reacted to the event itself: it looks at first glance like something awful you've seen before, but the reality is much more boring.
In my opinion, this entire affair is a short-lived, partial misinterpretation of a minor, nonviolent event.
Actually, the girl was put onto a bus for an hour, Neither she nor her father was given food or water. During the journey she went unconscious. Only after she arrived at the end of the bus journey was she taken to the hospital by helicopter. Why were she and her father not given water? her father told the agents she was sick. They ignored him.
And people aren't just coming to the US for fun. They are fleeing violence and gangs in their home countries. They are fleeing for their lives and the lives of their children. Maybe if we did something to help the countries they are coming from, we coud stop the flow of migrants and refugees. Building a wall isn't going to stop them from coming.
The MAGA kids are far from innocent babes. "It's not rape if you enjoy it", racist chanting, obstruction of a native American veteran's event, and wearing blackface at basketball games.
Not good kids, scum of the earth? Perhaps not but definitely over privileged kids whos parents failed to instill basic human decency in them.
I literally think journalists from almost everywhere shirked their responsibility by not fact checking, not asking for statements from the offenders, not doing the most basic verification you would expect from actual media. I also think this wouldn't be the case if political or racial affiliations were different.
I literally think senators like Elizabeth Warren did not do their duty and actually do any basic research for themselves before parroting media narratives with zero basis in fact.
I think this is a case of jumping on a bandwagon brought about by journalistic malpractice, because it fits their biases and because they have particularly nasty opinions about Trump supporters already, not any coordination between any different groups.
But Democrat politicians *encourage* these false media narratives because they support and parrot them whenever they benefit from them, which is almost always, so I hold them just as responsible.
In terms of how much distinction I make between these activist media groups and the DNC itself, the answer is, not much. Though I should properly separate them linguistically more, I tend to use very broad strokes and it always boils down to me untangling the semantic knots.
Likewise, you, @WarChiefZeke, see yet another anti-white attack by liberals, because it looks like other anti-white attacks you've seen in the past.
I won't deny that I clearly see this as part of a consistent pattern of behavior, and I also admit that this can directly lead to confirmation bias.
I don't think any individual media case is an example of malice or deliberate falsehoods, frankly. The entire thing is an example of it, because they have committed themselves to not reporting on anybody fairly who they disagree with on a political level.
But i'm still not seeing how border policy is an adequate comparison to targeted slander and harassment by adults to children. Nobody has any malice in the cases mentioned and it sounded like people tried to do the best they could.
Neglect is neglect. The sexual assaults and children deaths are entirely the responsibility of the administration because it forcibly separated the children from their parents as a way of trying to terrorize anyone from attempting to cross the border.
The MAGA kids are far from innocent babes. "It's not rape if you enjoy it", racist chanting, obstruction of a native American veteran's event, and wearing blackface at basketball games.
Not good kids, scum of the earth? Perhaps not but definitely over privileged kids whos parents failed to instill basic human decency in them.
1. It is my understanding that not only did the "it's not rape if you enjoy it" video show an entirely different group of kids, which seems likely since there wasn't a MAGA hat in sight, but that the person in question who tried to spread that video was banned from Twitter after they spread this misinformation. Even if this wasn't the case, this doesn't justify the horde of media lies but instead is a bandaid on an open wound, if it were actually true.
2. Nobody obstructed a Native American Veteran's Event.
3. Them wearing blackface at a basketball game is yet another media lie, propagated by the desperate journalists who are trying to now justify their completely false and damaging portrayal of innocent kids.
@WarChiefZeke: I think you give too little credit to journalists. The field skews liberal, but political slants apply to numerous industries, and not just those that are political in nature. The entertainment industry skews liberal; the military skews conservative. Nonprofits skew liberal; religious groups skew conservative. The media skews liberal; big business skews conservative. Teachers skew liberal; law enforcement skews conservative. There isn't a partisan motive behind all of these--this is just demographics.
I remember reading about a study that found that there was a difference, on average, on what kind of skills were stronger among liberals and conservatives. Liberals were better at weighing viewpoints, while conservatives were better at identifying threats. Who does this remind you of? I picture a journalist on the left and a soldier on the right.
People don't become journalists to publish lies any more than people become soldiers so they can kill foreigners. Most people are not evil. We make a mistake by assuming the worst about an entire industry of people.
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2019/01/donkey-kong-trans-rights-and-the-power-of-spite/?fbclid=IwAR1_OCZ_k-CZfDBAC27rSeBtennaaHc89k-2fD0TRn3x474TJDmJa6Aarq0 Powered by spite, Harry Brewis - better known as Hbomberguy - played Donkey Kong 64 live on stream for almost 60 hours. The world rallied around him and raised over $475,000 for transgender support charity, Mermaids. A day later and the world continues to be a rad place in the wake of this gargantuan effort. It started when Graham Linehan, creator of Father Ted, Black Books and The IT Crowd, tried to organise a defunding campaign against Mermaids, a UK charity that supports gender variant and transgender kids. Youtube personality, Harry Brewis didn't like that and decided to start a charity stream to raise money for Mermaids while playing Donkey Kong 64. The power of "fuck this guy in particular" is strong and the stream lasted over three days with a constantly rotating cast of celebrities and advocates calling in to show their support for trans rights. In the end, he raised over $475,000 while completing Donkey Kong 64 to 101% completion in 57 hours, 48 minutes and 32 seconds.
Democrat politician.....Democrat Congress....the Democrat media. I'm not even going through this bullshit again. The purposeful use of the word this way over and over and over is all I need and have ever needed to know.
Oh, and for the record. Trayvon Martin was MURDERED by a roving vigilante. He was smeared up, down, sideways, backwards and forwards for MONTHS by right-wing media. Coordinated, deliberate. He couldn't defend himself, because he was six feet underground.
So I wonder what Caitlyn Jenner has to say about the trans troop ban from the candidate she endorsed. I believe she totally disavowed him (or at least distanced herself) a while back. Perhaps she's full maga now eh? Now that Trump has stabbed her in the back?
And I still remember a sitcom TV show called MASH from 40 years ago with a character (Klinger) who's whole deal was he was pretending to be a transvestite in order to get out of the military. Haha yeah we're going back socially to back then. MAGA means rolling back environmental protection and social freedom in order to poison the air and poison people's. attitudes.
The rest is hyperbole and isnt constructive (It also just so happens to apply to the GOP as well).
It's fact, stated a bit bluntly, but fact. The media/DNC/Hollywood coalition, including some of the same people he is negotiating with right now, all jumped in to slander children and barely recognize the humanity and Trump and his supporters. If they did, they would treat at least the damn kids with a shred of dignity and honesty. And they do not. Democrat politicians lied about children trying to incite a hate mob. Democrat media lied about children trying to incite a hate mob. The facts were available minutes after the lies spread.
There is no equivalency to the GOP. At their very worst when they were spreading conspiracies about Obama's muslim heritage, never once did they go after innocent and passive 14 year old kids who were being insulted and harassed by adults on video. It's one thing to try to drag the names of grown adults like Kavanaugh, Trump, or Obama through the mud. When powerful people start trying to ruin the lives of kids because they hate their politics at best and are prejudiced against their race at worst, i'm going to have something to say about it.
If you think i'm gonna shut up anytime soon about the political and social leaders of half the country all jumping wholeheartedly into this disgusting charade, i'm afraid you are sadly mistaken.
Funny how several major stories have been frauds in the past few weeks, but it's barely worth mentioning because of the catastrophic failure of the other frauds.
Fact is: this NEVER would happen to liberal activist kids. It would be fact checked, then double fact checked, then confirmed by a dozen different sources, then buried.
@WarChiefZeke I realize that by the time I've read this there has already been lots of comment and debate and me returning to that may be seen as just stirring. However, I didn't feel I should let it pass without comment.
In relation to the particular incident I agree that the immediate reaction was clearly overblown. That was widely acknowledged though within a short time and more nuanced information provided by the major networks. I disagree with you that those advocating liberal causes would have been treated better - think for instance of the various made up stories about the kids advocating gun control, which have been difficult to dispel.
As you probably remember I felt (and feel) strongly about the policy of separating children from families. That was a GOP policy specifically aimed at discouraging immigration by inhumane means and many months later the effects of the earlier separations are still there (and a return to that policy is still being advocated by some of those in government). There have been numerous and blatant lies told to try and defend this (indefensible) policy - including about the children.
I understand that participating in a liberal-leaning thread can seem painful if you don't share those views and I'm glad you take the time to do that to provide a bit of balance. I particularly respect the fact that you do generally aim to back up your arguments with evidence, but with this specific post I don't think you've done that.
The Parkland kids were called "crisis actors" by Republican elected officials and all over the usual media. Thus implying they weren't really students of the school, but actors shipped around the country to push liberal causes. And these kids, by any measure, did absolutey nothing but participate in TV interviews and rallies. There was never a single confrontation to even have an argument about. The narrative about them wasn't tied to any video of questionable behavior, but simply was invented out of whole cloth the moment they got on TV once the NRA realized they were a threat. Where was the "I'm disgusted by the way children are being smeared" crowd then?? And, again, unlike in this current case, there was never any ambiguity about the situation. There was no altercation to dispute. Their friends really got shot and died and they were actually really pissed about it. They were simply framed as planted agents of the left. This happened just over a year ago.
It's perfectly fine if we are going to have discussion about one side of the political divide treating these kids unfairly. No one is saying we can't or that people can't feel that way. But I'll be damned if we are going to have that conversation without talking about Trayvon Martin or the Parkland teens, or (even though it is only tangentially related in this case) the Newtown parents, who have literally had to MOVE multiple times because of far-right conspiracy theories about their dead children. I'll also point out that in the above cases I am mentioning, we are talking about the actual murders of dozens of people being the fulcrum of the debate, not harsh criticism on social media. Ask Barack Obama what kind of shitstorm ensued when he dared utter the words, "If I had a son, he would have looked like Trayvon". Or you can just ask me. I'll let you know. Because I actually have a memory.
The Parkland kids were called "crisis actors" by Republican elected officials and all over the usual media. Thus implying they weren't really students of the school, but actors shipped around the country to push liberal causes. And these kids, by any measure, did absolutey nothing but participate in TV interviews and rallies. There was never a single confrontation to even have an argument about. The narrative about them wasn't tied to any video of questionable behavior, but simply was invented out of whole cloth the moment they got on TV once the NRA realized they were a threat. Where was the "I'm disgusted by the way children are being smeared" crowd then?? And, again, unlike in this current case, there was never any ambiguity about the situation. There was no altercation to dispute. Their friends really got shot and died and they were actually really pissed about it. They were simply framed as planted agents of the left. This happened just over a year ago.
It's perfectly fine if we are going to have discussion about one side of the political divide treating these kids unfairly. No one is saying we can't or that people can't feel that way. But I'll be damned if we are going to have that conversation without talking about Trayvon Martin or the Parkland teens, or (even though it is only tangentially related in this case) the Newtown parents, who have literally had to MOVE multiple times because of far-right conspiracy theories about their dead children. I'll also point out that in the above cases I am mentioning, we are talking about the actual murders of dozens of people being the fulcrum of the debate, not harsh criticism on social media. Ask Barack Obama what kind of shitstorm ensued when he dared utter the words, "If I had a son, he would have looked like Trayvon". Or you can just ask me. I'll let you know. Because I actually have a memory.
I didn't agree with those kids being targeted either. I also didnt believe that they had some kind of transcendent wisdom by virtue of not being shot. Surviving a tragedy is a very emotional experience but that doesn't make you a guru...
I'm struck by Lara Trump's remark in the last two days that the shutdown is causing a "little bit of pain" but that "it's bigger than any one person". You want to know why (and this is reflected in a horrendous CBS poll for Trump this morning) the Democrats aren't getting blamed for the shutdown?? Because they aren't talking like Marie Antoinette. You may think Democrats share equal blame (I think that's ridiculous but peope can believe that). But what they aren't doing is talking like this. They constantly bring up the situation with the paychecks, and don't dismiss it as inconsequential. Because they realize most people cannot remotely afford to not get paid for a month. The Republicans (and especially the Administration) aren't saying jack-shit about a million people who aren't getting paid. And that is why they are getting crushed. No one gives two shits about a border wall if they are about to miss their mortgage payment.
I'm struck by Lara Trump's remark in the last two days that the shutdown is causing a "little bit of pain" but that "it's bigger than any one person". You want to know why (and this is reflected in a horrendous CBS poll for Trump this morning) the Democrats aren't getting blamed for the shutdown?? Because they aren't talking like Marie Antoinette. You may think Democrats share equal blame (I think that's ridiculous but peope can believe that). But what they aren't doing is talking like this. They constantly bring up the situation with the paychecks, and don't dismiss it as inconsequnetial. Because they realize most people cannot remotely afford to not get paid for a month. The Republicans (and especially the Administration) aren't saying jack-shit about a million people who aren't getting paid. And that is why they are getting crushed. No one gives two shits about a border wall if they are about to miss their mortgage payment.
Some don't give two shits about a border wall, period! It's the more nervous people that do most of the tallkng in my experience...
I'm struck by Lara Trump's remark in the last two days that the shutdown is causing a "little bit of pain" but that "it's bigger than any one person". You want to know why (and this is reflected in a horrendous CBS poll for Trump this morning) the Democrats aren't getting blamed for the shutdown?? Because they aren't talking like Marie Antoinette. You may think Democrats share equal blame (I think that's ridiculous but peope can believe that). But what they aren't doing is talking like this. They constantly bring up the situation with the paychecks, and don't dismiss it as inconsequnetial. Because they realize most people cannot remotely afford to not get paid for a month. The Republicans (and especially the Administration) aren't saying jack-shit about a million people who aren't getting paid. And that is why they are getting crushed. No one gives two shits about a border wall if they are about to miss their mortgage payment.
Some don't give two shits about a border wall, period! It's the more nervous people that do most of the tallkng in my experience...
Another reason is most people just flat-out don't know enough about politics to blame Congress. They see Trump at the top and that's who gets the blame. Comes with the job. But it damn sure doesn't help when you sit in the White House acting like a royal family. But again, it comes down to Democrats/Party that is pro-government and Republicans/Party that is anti-government. They are never, ever going to win these shutdown fights because of this ingrained dynamic.
As you probably remember I felt (and feel) strongly about the policy of separating children from families. That was a GOP policy specifically aimed at discouraging immigration by inhumane means and many months later the effects of the earlier separations are still there (and a return to that policy is still being advocated by some of those in government). There have been numerous and blatant lies told to try and defend this (indefensible) policy - including about the children.
It's not a problem to bring this subject up again, engaging with your views is actually one of the things I look forward to most in here, but honest question. Do you really think the media as an entire class would allow Trump to propagate patently false facts and narratives about his separation policy the way they were allowed to freely and recklessly disregard investigation and fact checking for the maga kids? Of course not, they are on that immediately. They obsessively nitpick his every word on any topic to shift for contradictions, however semantic and minute.
It just seems clear to me that there is no other explanation. If they are so damn good at finding out what is fact from fiction when it serves their purposes, why do they then become such incompetent buffoons that the comment sections have the full story correct mere hours after the hit pieces come rolling in, when it again serves their purposes? I see too much self interest involved, and too consistent and wide spread a failure, to see this as mere incompetence.
Normal failure of basic verification, which should be absolutely standard for all stories let alone media wide ones, is unethical. It becomes doubly so when you're punching down on ordinary people in the worst possible way.
They interviewed the people from one side of the story, the one that confirmed their own biases, and the one that was also contrary to video evidence. *Why* did they only interview one side of the story? That to me is the worst example of malice in their representation. They didn't care about the facts. The kids were willing to talk. And later did, much to the anger of verified journo twitter.
Let me put it this way. Is there a single story in the past 2 years- favorable to Trump or the right- that had to be retracted or had to issue a major correction from mainstream media outlets? I know of several the other way around, and several firings as well.
If not for people on social media correcting the record almost instantly, "smirking racist teen surrounds and mocks Native American veteran-saint" would be the narrative in perpetuity, used as evidence for anything a given propagandist would want to convince you of at the time; Trump is radicalizing the kids, we have a white supremacist uprising in this country, it would have been a sidenote in half the stories on the Trump admin from then on.
And that's the problem, they are so stuck on their own political narratives, because journalism as a profession is such an echo chamber, that they can't see beyond it and don't have any incentives to do so because until now nobody could challenge them.
Alex Jones is an internet crank and almost certainly crazy. He's not a multi-million dollar conglomerate who should have the means and expertise to fact check. I think it is more than a little insane to hold internet cranks to a higher standard than professional organizations that supposedly have the sharing of accurate news as their goal, however meme-able they may be. He's not FOX news.
And frankly nothing he said even comes close to the sort of shit verified journalist twitter was saying about these kids.
You can easily make the case that he is just crazy and wrong. I don't watch him so I only know clips. But there is no other explanation for this, it is an example of actual ill intent.
As you probably remember I felt (and feel) strongly about the policy of separating children from families. That was a GOP policy specifically aimed at discouraging immigration by inhumane means and many months later the effects of the earlier separations are still there (and a return to that policy is still being advocated by some of those in government). There have been numerous and blatant lies told to try and defend this (indefensible) policy - including about the children.
It's not a problem to bring this subject up again, engaging with your views is actually one of the things I look forward to most in here, but honest question. Do you really think the media as an entire class would allow Trump to propagate patently false facts and narratives about his separation policy the way they were allowed to freely and recklessly disregard investigation and fact checking for the maga kids? Of course not, they are on that immediately. They obsessively nitpick his every word on any topic to shift for contradictions, however semantic and minute.
It just seems clear to me that there is no other explanation. If they are so damn good at finding out what is fact from fiction when it serves their purposes, why do they then become such incompetent buffoons that the comment sections have the full story correct mere hours after the hit pieces come rolling in, when it again serves their purposes? I see too much self interest involved, and too consistent and wide spread a failure, to see this as mere incompetence.
Normal failure of basic verification, which should be absolutely standard for all stories let alone media wide ones, is unethical. It becomes doubly so when you're punching down on ordinary people in the worst possible way.
They interviewed the people from one side of the story, the one that confirmed their own biases, and the one that was also contrary to video evidence. *Why* did they only interview one side of the story? That to me is the worst example of malice in their representation. They didn't care about the facts. The kids were willing to talk. And later did, much to the anger of verified journo twitter.
Let me put it this way. Is there a single story in the past 2 years- favorable to Trump or the right- that had to be retracted or had to issue a major correction from mainstream media outlets? I know of several the other way around, and several firings as well.
If not for people on social media correcting the record almost instantly, "smirking racist teen surrounds and mocks Native American veteran-saint" would be the narrative in perpetuity, used as evidence for anything a given propagandist would want to convince you of at the time; Trump is radicalizing the kids, we have a white supremacist uprising in this country, it would have been a sidenote in half the stories on the Trump admin from then on.
And that's the problem, they are so stuck on their own political narratives, because journalism as a profession is such an echo chamber, that they can't see beyond it and don't have any incentives to do so because until now nobody could challenge them.
Granted, it didn’t help the kids side of the story when the easiest way to get a hold of them, through their school, went into full shutdown and released a statement condemning the kids behaviour before they knew all the facts.
Now with a lot of trolls throwing death threats around on social media, I really do not blame the school for shutting everything down. However, the school should have worded their first response to the incident better as well to help say “there is more to this story than what it seems.”
I am not saying the mainstream media dropped the ball on this story, but they are attempting to correct it allowing the kid to have his say (he was interviewed on TV recently saying he respects Phillips) and are not doubling down on these kids are evil, which a lot of clickbait sites are doing and sadly something that Fox might have done if it was left leaning kids.
Comments
The rest is hyperbole and isnt constructive (It also just so happens to apply to the GOP as well).
It's fact, stated a bit bluntly, but fact. The media/DNC/Hollywood coalition, including some of the same people he is negotiating with right now, all jumped in to slander children and barely recognize the humanity and Trump and his supporters. If they did, they would treat at least the damn kids with a shred of dignity and honesty. And they do not. Democrat politicians lied about children trying to incite a hate mob. Democrat media lied about children trying to incite a hate mob. The facts were available minutes after the lies spread.
There is no equivalency to the GOP. At their very worst when they were spreading conspiracies about Obama's muslim heritage, never once did they go after innocent and passive 14 year old kids who were being insulted and harassed by adults on video. It's one thing to try to drag the names of grown adults like Kavanaugh, Trump, or Obama through the mud. When powerful people start trying to ruin the lives of kids because they hate their politics at best and are prejudiced against their race at worst, i'm going to have something to say about it.
If you think i'm gonna shut up anytime soon about the political and social leaders of half the country all jumping wholeheartedly into this disgusting charade, i'm afraid you are sadly mistaken.
Funny how several major stories have been frauds in the past few weeks, but it's barely worth mentioning because of the catastrophic failure of the other frauds.
Fact is: this NEVER would happen to liberal activist kids. It would be fact checked, then double fact checked, then confirmed by a dozen different sources, then buried.
I can think of many worse things on both Trump and the GOP's side. You may speak the truth as you see it, but there is plenty of truth that says Trump and his party have done things equally as bad, and then there's the numerous people in the Republican party and their claims about women being raped (like Mourdock). In fact, there's several whole charts about that... https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/9/21/1797415/-This-seems-like-a-good-point-to-dust-off-the-GOP-Rape-Advisory-Chart-again?detail=facebook
So, no, it's only the truth as you see it. And other people see it far differently.
Jakelin Caal
I think most here would agree death isnt preferable to slander - but please. Convince me I'm wrong. Clearly the most reprehensible thing to ever happen was the (potential) slandering of kids.
I am genuinely at a loss as to where you are going with this. Researched the names, one died of an infection and one died of the flu shortly after entering the US. Are you implying adults went out of their way to inflict disease on these kids? Are you saying adults went out of their way to promote the idea of sick children? Are you saying adults celebrate the idea of inadequate medical care to kids, assuming this is actually the case since no article i've seen claims this to be the case?
If not, I can't help but feel like this is an entirely disingenuous comparison.
This is what you encourage when you encourage mass immigration south of the border. A dangerous journey where many women are sexually assaulted, many people are exploited, and many people die.
"The girl, who had not eaten or consumed water for several days, began having seizures about eight hours after she was put in CBP custody.
When paramedics arrived, her body temperature was 105.7 degrees. She was taken by helicopter to a hospital in El Paso, Texas.
Once there, the girl went into cardiac arrest and was revived — but later died.
“The child did not recover and died at the hospital less than 24 hours after being transported,” CBP said."
https://nypost.com/2018/12/13/7-year-old-girl-dies-in-customs-and-border-protection-custody/
As for the little boy, it sounded like he suddenly turned ill and died even after receiving medical treatment. Which is horrible, and a tragedy. But a consequence of border policy? Explain that one to me.
1. If all these people from all these different places were coordinating a campaign of lies, why wouldn't there be a leak? A conspiracy is a big thing to hide, and it only takes one participant to leak an email showing people telling each other "Let's go get these kids!"
2. If all these people from all these different places were coordinating a campaign of lies, why would they attack a group of nameless kids that no one knew about before? If you had partisan motives, wouldn't you spend your time and energy attacking a major political figure who is less likely to generate sympathy?
3. If all these people from all these different places were coordinating a campaign of lies, how did they coordinate it so incredibly quickly? The controversy arose right after the event.
This seems a little far-fetched, so I thought I'd ask if you meant this scenario literally.
I don't view these kids as sinister figures. But I have a more plausible explanation for why the event generated so much controversy: People misinterpreted the interaction between Phillips and the kids because it looked like yet another clash between Trump supporters and a member of a minority group.
We've already seen other examples of Trump supporters in red hats who, both as groups and as individuals, made verbal attacks on ethnic minorities with no apparent provocation. To clarify, I'm using this to stereotype Trump supporters (that would be pretty gross). I'm using this to establish that this narrative--that these kids in MAGA hats were harassing some guy from a minority group--did not come out of nowhere. It's based on numerous other incidents we've seen over the past 2 years.
Likewise, you, @WarChiefZeke, see yet another anti-white attack by liberals, because it looks like other anti-white attacks you've seen in the past. And I think you're misinterpreting the response to this issue--but I'm not going to accuse you of lying about it.
I think you're reacting to the controversy the same way a lot of folks in the media first reacted to the event itself: it looks at first glance like something awful you've seen before, but the reality is much more boring.
In my opinion, this entire affair is a short-lived, partial misinterpretation of a minor, nonviolent event.
And people aren't just coming to the US for fun. They are fleeing violence and gangs in their home countries. They are fleeing for their lives and the lives of their children. Maybe if we did something to help the countries they are coming from, we coud stop the flow of migrants and refugees. Building a wall isn't going to stop them from coming.
Not good kids, scum of the earth? Perhaps not but definitely over privileged kids whos parents failed to instill basic human decency in them.
I literally think senators like Elizabeth Warren did not do their duty and actually do any basic research for themselves before parroting media narratives with zero basis in fact.
I think this is a case of jumping on a bandwagon brought about by journalistic malpractice, because it fits their biases and because they have particularly nasty opinions about Trump supporters already, not any coordination between any different groups.
But Democrat politicians *encourage* these false media narratives because they support and parrot them whenever they benefit from them, which is almost always, so I hold them just as responsible.
In terms of how much distinction I make between these activist media groups and the DNC itself, the answer is, not much. Though I should properly separate them linguistically more, I tend to use very broad strokes and it always boils down to me untangling the semantic knots. I won't deny that I clearly see this as part of a consistent pattern of behavior, and I also admit that this can directly lead to confirmation bias.
I don't think any individual media case is an example of malice or deliberate falsehoods, frankly. The entire thing is an example of it, because they have committed themselves to not reporting on anybody fairly who they disagree with on a political level.
But that's just my opinion.
https://www.propublica.org/article/boystown-immigrant-childrens-shelter-sexual-assault
So while conservatives are feigning outrage over something so despicable like children being "slandered" - this ^^^ is going on.
2. Nobody obstructed a Native American Veteran's Event.
3. Them wearing blackface at a basketball game is yet another media lie, propagated by the desperate journalists who are trying to now justify their completely false and damaging portrayal of innocent kids.
I remember reading about a study that found that there was a difference, on average, on what kind of skills were stronger among liberals and conservatives. Liberals were better at weighing viewpoints, while conservatives were better at identifying threats. Who does this remind you of? I picture a journalist on the left and a soldier on the right.
People don't become journalists to publish lies any more than people become soldiers so they can kill foreigners. Most people are not evil. We make a mistake by assuming the worst about an entire industry of people.
Donkey Kong, Trans Rights And The Power Of Spite
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2019/01/donkey-kong-trans-rights-and-the-power-of-spite/?fbclid=IwAR1_OCZ_k-CZfDBAC27rSeBtennaaHc89k-2fD0TRn3x474TJDmJa6Aarq0Powered by spite, Harry Brewis - better known as Hbomberguy - played Donkey Kong 64 live on stream for almost 60 hours. The world rallied around him and raised over $475,000 for transgender support charity, Mermaids.
A day later and the world continues to be a rad place in the wake of this gargantuan effort.
It started when Graham Linehan, creator of Father Ted, Black Books and The IT Crowd, tried to organise a defunding campaign against Mermaids, a UK charity that supports gender variant and transgender kids.
Youtube personality, Harry Brewis didn't like that and decided to start a charity stream to raise money for Mermaids while playing Donkey Kong 64. The power of "fuck this guy in particular" is strong and the stream lasted over three days with a constantly rotating cast of celebrities and advocates calling in to show their support for trans rights.
In the end, he raised over $475,000 while completing Donkey Kong 64 to 101% completion in 57 hours, 48 minutes and 32 seconds.
Oh, and for the record. Trayvon Martin was MURDERED by a roving vigilante. He was smeared up, down, sideways, backwards and forwards for MONTHS by right-wing media. Coordinated, deliberate. He couldn't defend himself, because he was six feet underground.
State Department cancels border security conference due to shutdown over border security
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/22/politics/state-dept-border-security-conference-postponed/index.html?fbclid=IwAR3hLofsfmCEZSLaym6603NO-G2g0NpiTMbZ-qfgVexe_bWWp4YxtZvvN1QAnd I still remember a sitcom TV show called MASH from 40 years ago with a character (Klinger) who's whole deal was he was pretending to be a transvestite in order to get out of the military. Haha yeah we're going back socially to back then. MAGA means rolling back environmental protection and social freedom in order to poison the air and poison people's. attitudes.
In relation to the particular incident I agree that the immediate reaction was clearly overblown. That was widely acknowledged though within a short time and more nuanced information provided by the major networks. I disagree with you that those advocating liberal causes would have been treated better - think for instance of the various made up stories about the kids advocating gun control, which have been difficult to dispel.
As you probably remember I felt (and feel) strongly about the policy of separating children from families. That was a GOP policy specifically aimed at discouraging immigration by inhumane means and many months later the effects of the earlier separations are still there (and a return to that policy is still being advocated by some of those in government). There have been numerous and blatant lies told to try and defend this (indefensible) policy - including about the children.
I understand that participating in a liberal-leaning thread can seem painful if you don't share those views and I'm glad you take the time to do that to provide a bit of balance. I particularly respect the fact that you do generally aim to back up your arguments with evidence, but with this specific post I don't think you've done that.
It's perfectly fine if we are going to have discussion about one side of the political divide treating these kids unfairly. No one is saying we can't or that people can't feel that way. But I'll be damned if we are going to have that conversation without talking about Trayvon Martin or the Parkland teens, or (even though it is only tangentially related in this case) the Newtown parents, who have literally had to MOVE multiple times because of far-right conspiracy theories about their dead children. I'll also point out that in the above cases I am mentioning, we are talking about the actual murders of dozens of people being the fulcrum of the debate, not harsh criticism on social media. Ask Barack Obama what kind of shitstorm ensued when he dared utter the words, "If I had a son, he would have looked like Trayvon". Or you can just ask me. I'll let you know. Because I actually have a memory.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/21/president-trump-made-false-or-misleading-claims-his-first-two-years/?utm_term=.abe15b9ab75a
It just seems clear to me that there is no other explanation. If they are so damn good at finding out what is fact from fiction when it serves their purposes, why do they then become such incompetent buffoons that the comment sections have the full story correct mere hours after the hit pieces come rolling in, when it again serves their purposes? I see too much self interest involved, and too consistent and wide spread a failure, to see this as mere incompetence.
Normal failure of basic verification, which should be absolutely standard for all stories let alone media wide ones, is unethical. It becomes doubly so when you're punching down on ordinary people in the worst possible way.
They interviewed the people from one side of the story, the one that confirmed their own biases, and the one that was also contrary to video evidence. *Why* did they only interview one side of the story? That to me is the worst example of malice in their representation. They didn't care about the facts. The kids were willing to talk. And later did, much to the anger of verified journo twitter.
Let me put it this way. Is there a single story in the past 2 years- favorable to Trump or the right- that had to be retracted or had to issue a major correction from mainstream media outlets? I know of several the other way around, and several firings as well.
If not for people on social media correcting the record almost instantly, "smirking racist teen surrounds and mocks Native American veteran-saint" would be the narrative in perpetuity, used as evidence for anything a given propagandist would want to convince you of at the time; Trump is radicalizing the kids, we have a white supremacist uprising in this country, it would have been a sidenote in half the stories on the Trump admin from then on.
And that's the problem, they are so stuck on their own political narratives, because journalism as a profession is such an echo chamber, that they can't see beyond it and don't have any incentives to do so because until now nobody could challenge them.
And frankly nothing he said even comes close to the sort of shit verified journalist twitter was saying about these kids.
You can easily make the case that he is just crazy and wrong. I don't watch him so I only know clips. But there is no other explanation for this, it is an example of actual ill intent.
Now with a lot of trolls throwing death threats around on social media, I really do not blame the school for shutting everything down. However, the school should have worded their first response to the incident better as well to help say “there is more to this story than what it seems.”
I am not saying the mainstream media dropped the ball on this story, but they are attempting to correct it allowing the kid to have his say (he was interviewed on TV recently saying he respects Phillips) and are not doubling down on these kids are evil, which a lot of clickbait sites are doing and sadly something that Fox might have done if it was left leaning kids.