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The LoB + SCS Solo Challenge and the Tales of IWDification

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Comments

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,325
    The Horror spell is an important point for Chateau Irenicus. If you could use it from the fog of war and then immediately rest if not enough duergar got spooked, you could only engage the duergar when you were in a position to tackle one or both of the crossbowmen. Kiting the axe users would be entirely doable as long as you didn't have to worry about getting peppered with crossbow bolts from afar. I'm not sure, though, how things would play out after the 10-round duration wore off and you'd be left with multiple duergar scattered across the map, especially if they kept wandering around randomly after you rested.

    The mephits would be a bit simpler, in the sense that you could always retreat to the portal to the first level if it failed, getting a free rest even if the mephits did chase after you. In fact, the time delay in between clicking the portal and actually leaving the area might allow you to escape even if you match a Horror spell with the Radiant Mephit's Color Spray and fail your saving throw.

    The Horror spell could actually make the starting dungeon doable even for a no-reload run.

    histamiiniAerakarStummvonBordwehrOngo
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,237
    @histamiini The dreams never give Ghoul Touch. They give Horror. The wiki is wrong.

    histamiiniOngo
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,325
    @histamiini: I thought it was no longer possible to lock the door on the mephits in Chateau Irenicus. Maybe I'm thinking of an ATweaks behavior.

    I was under the impression that the Drasus party all went hostile if you tried to turn them against each other. Is it possible that that only happens if Drasus delivers his opening dialog line, and you can avoid that via invisibility and/or staying out of his visual range? Because I dimly recall trying to turn them against each other once, only for Drasus to deliver his line and turn all of them hostile, including the one I had charmed.

    histamiiniOngo
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,187
    edited March 12
    @semiticgod That maybe, I don't use ATweaks, and reading your experience with the Glabrezus, I don't know if I ever want to. :D

    They do, I think only way of stopping that script happening is to have everybody on sight charmed, like I did in the thieves guild, or with Iron Throne when you're in the back room. Even though with the thieves guild there was some strange recovering with some of the charmed ones. Against Drasus where I had the two mages charmed, they didn't recover, only Drasus and Genthorn went hostile. Drasus dialogue may affect that, but he can only activate that if he sees you, and he didn't see me.

    StummvonBordwehrOngo
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,212
    If Drasus delivers his dialogue it will indeed turn any of his party hostile (the same applies with other group leaders, such as Kirian). You can avoid that by staying out of his sight.

    On the use of Bhaal horror, note that it's badly bugged in v2.5 BG2EE. The duration is much shorter than the turn you would expect (4 rounds I think), but the major problem is that many enemies have scripts that overpower the horror effect. That tends to mean that the horror kicks in once per round or so to make them run, but they immediately then turn and attack or cast spells - in other words they lose very little of their normal combat capability. It's still useful - particularly to help split up enemy groups - but using it in the expectation that affected enemies will ignore you will tend to lead to a quick and sad death.

    histamiiniStummvonBordwehrsemiticgodOngo
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,237
    Grond0 wrote: »
    That tends to mean that the horror kicks in once per round or so to make them run, but they immediately then turn and attack or cast spells - in other words they lose very little of their normal combat capability. It's still useful - particularly to help split up enemy groups - but using it in the expectation that affected enemies will ignore you will tend to lead to a quick and sad death.

    Actually, that can make it better. Sometimes they start casting a spell while under the effect of Horror, only to waste the spell and run away due to the fear AI kicking in.

    StummvonBordwehrOngohistamiini
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,212
    I agree sometimes they do and it is conceivable that gives you a benefit as they then don't have the spell available when horror ends. More often they successfully cast the spell though and I think the net effect is significantly worse for a no reload attempt than if they were unable to cast the spell at all (as should be the case).

    OngohistamiiniStummvonBordwehr
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,325
    Sounds like Horror in IWD. Enemies will go yellow and keep fighting as if there was no Horror spell affecting them at all.

    OngohistamiiniStummvonBordwehr
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,187
    edited March 13
    Jin charmed Hairtooth for some nice heavy weight brawl. Piercing girdle ogre I used one Potion of Absorption. Charmed the Ogrillon with the papers, so I could get Ring +1 in Beregost. Carmed Desreta and Vay-ya for the str gloves, and used last invisibility from the ring. I had 21k money again so I reloaded the Sandthief ring and went to Iron Throne. It should pay itself.

    Iron Throne, invisibility and in. Casually hacked Thaldorn. Charmed Naaman who lured Shennara back stage to be killed, then he made me invisible, and I went resting. Again used one invisibility the get to back room where charmed Naaman was waiting. Charmed Diyab who lured Kaalos back room, and Naaman then made me invisible again. Basically you only need to use one invisibility in the charming endeavour per tour if you use Naaman as an invisibility bank. Kaalos had no chance against Diyab and his skeli. Charmed Aasim and escorted him back room. Then Gardush who can be charmed behind the pillar from the Nymph cloak without resting. Had to rest couple times to charm Alai and got him in the back room, where I recharmed all with Nymph's cloak. They ganged on Zhalimar and the Emissary who didn't have a chance. Eventually three skelis cleaned all up. Loot was one PfU and Heroism potion and about 17k gold after I sold evertything. Used 6 charges from Sandthief ring which makes the net profit about 6k gold, which together with PfU and Heroism potion is a good deal.

    0qagujhhp6fo.png
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    nvkwweq9lqon.png

    Bought the 20 Oil of Speeds and 7 extra healing potions from High House of Wonders. Another 5 extra healing potions from the priest during Marek and Lothander guest. Used last invisibility charge so that charmed gamesmans could casually hack Marek, it took no less than 50 real world minutes. But hey it's risk free. Recharged Sandthief and was still left 5k gold.

    dme49mr3xq5s.png

    Time for the trickiest part of BG1, Durlag's Goblet. After helping the Nymph I charmed Riggolo and fed him to the Ghost. With the Cloud potion I got from Riggolo I opened the chests and looted the place. Upstairs netted 4 invisibility, 2 speed potions, wis tome and 4.5k gold. No invisibilities wasted. Fighting a ghast one on one I remembered that I need throwing weapon first, because it quickly diseased my Thac0, so I decided to go to Candlekeep first.

    ziyrfxynsme6.png

    Invisibility potion allowed me to pass the Ogre mage waylay. Charmed the Iron Throne leaders, and they killed themselves. Kestor didn't have his 3 invisibility potions that he usually has? Don't know why is that. Slept in the catacomb library and got duhm, which allowed me to open the nice chest. Used 2 cloud potions and three invisibilities so I didn't need to fight anybody. Couple more invisibilities allowed me to escape after I charmed Pratt for the Throwing Axe +2. Had to use 5 invisibilites in candlekeep but selling the loot I got 12k gold so it again more than paid for itself.

    4qnrlsmc7wu2.png

    Kited the ghasts from the basement, used Potion of Absorption to block lighting traps and Greenstone amulet on the charm trap. Used last to Sandthief charges, but I still had the gong to do, so I left and recharged the ring again. Which was fine as I made again 12k gold from the warder level. Two invisibilities allowed me to remake the gong and activate the warders.

    Greenstone amulet and managed to lure Fear to the basement, which took a while, you have to push him to the stairs so he does the transition. Then I let Avarice to find me and lured him to the basement, had to drink couple of Extra Healing potions because he does massive damage. Then I just lured Love away from Pride. Love took Heroism, Storm, Clarity, Invulnerability, 7 Extra Healings and multiple speed potions because he slows you, but in the end it's straightforward tanking if you have enough healing. I've to say this was one of the best runs. Activating the warders I usually go invisible immidiatelly, but somehow I forgot that this time. But it's actually better, because Fear spawns closest to the exit door, so you can just run to the door luring Fear away first. This way he doesn't hug Love and you don't even need to hit them with OGL.

    fg175ch8w4n7.png
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    Picked up Durlag's Goblet and it was finally time, to kill Tarnesh and pick up the Golden Pantaloons. Potion of Magic Blocking and hacked him to pieces.

    Grond0Aerakar
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,187
    edited March 14
    Rolled another concurrent character, Serafina the human Archer to be Cleric, also no-reload. Never played Ranger nor Archer. My plan is to dual from level 21, the same as the Kensai.

    elv2z4jx8vbu.png

    ** Longbow
    ** Sling
    ** Two Weapon Style
    Racial Enemy: Demon/Fell

    Doing the same stuff again, after killing Drizzt I had 30k gold because I sold his scimitars. Tenya got me to level 2, Revenant level 3. Again this level up was a big one, -4 Thac0 and +2 damage. After getting three invisibility potions and shield amulet I went to the mines. Used one invisibility to get to Mulahey, first charm failed, but he took my word, so I slept, charmed him and fed to the kobbos. Used another invisibility so that charmed Minsc could hack Nimbul. Charmed Tranzig and wasted his spells on the traveler. But he was still too tough to tank so I had to kite him at the bar. Already at the bandit camp thinking how to do it, only one invisibility and Hakt has my bow.

    e092719vztq4.png
    ax1c4ioc9z9d.png

    StummvonBordwehrAerakarOngo
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,212
    histamiini wrote: »
    Already at the bandit camp thinking how to do it, only one invisibility and Hakt has my bow.

    Why do you need more than one? If you get invited to the camp you can charm Taurgosz without being invisible, so don't you just need one to disappear while the enemies kill him for you (and then go and loot the empty tent)?

    histamiiniStummvonBordwehrOngo
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,187
    edited March 14
    @Grond0 Now that you mention it I probably don't. It's been so long when I've last played the game that way that I've forgot you can be invited to the camp.

    EDIT: well I do now, as I was already at the bandit camp, and Teven and Raiken are no more to be found.

    Grond0Ongo
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,325
    @histamiini: You may need to install a mod or make a tweak to a .2da file to dual-class your Archer to a cleric. Unless an EE update changed it, Archers can't dual-class to cleric, presumably because the old Bioware devs didn't want people dualing to cleric and then realizing they couldn't use bows anymore.

    histamiiniOngo
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,212
    edited March 14
    You can do it in the EE (they just have a warning notice about losing proficiencies).

    semiticgodhistamiiniStummvonBordwehrOngo
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,187
    @semiticgod Wait what, I just tried it and lost my bows. I read the description from wiki, but somehow didn't assimilate it. Damn I was so looking forward of Archer Cleric combo and now I'm sad, I think I'll just drop it.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,325
    @histamiini: I think the Archer and Archer/Cleric are both perfectly viable options. As for the Archer/Cleric, it could still get all of those ranged bonuses to slings, and Called Shot would work great with Energy Blades for STR drain kills. Having cleric spells would grant certain advantages--being able to summon a Deva would be very nice indeed, particularly since it would give you an important decoy while you used slings from a distance. The Archer/Cleric might not have as many warrior HLAs, but it would have access to Energy Blades, which would grant 10 APR (maybe undispellable?) with a +5 weapon, allowing more targeted STR drain kills.

    Both the Archer and Archer/Cleric would be excellent choices for ToB, since even Archer/Clerics can use the Big Metal Rod (if not other crossbows) and the Scorcher Ammunition. As I've mentioned in other places, the Scorcher Ammunition has 5 APR, +10 THAC0, and strikes twice, which means you could land STR drain kills very easily as long as you had a target that was vulnerable to +1 weapons (notably, this does NOT include a Vhailor's Helm clone if you got all of the good-aligned Hell rewards from SoA).

    Two Vhailor's Helm clones using the Scorcher Ammunition would effectively have 20 attacks per round and could cast multiple Called Shot spells, enough to kill Ascension Melissan in less than 10 seconds by using Yaga-Shura as a target. If you can get through BG1 and SoD with an Archer, you could afford to lose your access to bows and crossbows, since slings should keep you afloat until you can forge the Big Metal Rod and Scorcher Ammunition.

    I'm going to start posting on a solo Archer run in a non-LoB run in the "Maybe this time" thread.

    histamiiniStummvonBordwehrOngo
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,187
    @semiticgod Thanks, now that actually sounds good. Slings will probably do fine in BG2, so losing bows will not be that big of a deal. Archer will pass BG1 and SoD flying colors I think, using bows before Bel, and pass Bel with a sling. Because Archer can use Champion's Strength scrolls, average damage per round should be like 60 against Bel, even with a sling.

    StummvonBordwehrsemiticgodOngo
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,325
    edited March 14
    @histamiini: I calculate 60 from dual-wielding +3 scimitars, but 60 damage per round with a sling doesn't seem realistic. Archers can't hit GM in slings (so, max APR is 2 with an Oil of Speed) and STR bonuses won't apply to the void bullets. Does SoD have any +3 bullets?

    I calculate 16.5 average damage per hit with Void-Tipped Arrows, 12.25 with Arrows +3, and 20.125 with a +3 scimitar, assuming 25 STR and a 95% hit rate from Champion's Strength scrolls. Even an Archer does better in melee combat than ranged combat against Belhifet. So, 19 rounds to get through Belhifet's 1,172 HP?

    Grond0Ongo
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,187
    edited March 15
    @semiticgod Haven't calculated it, but I did test it against Bel with all the bits and bobs, and missile damage before damage reduction was 28 + 6.5 average magic damage. This makes it 20.5 average damage per hit, which becomes slightly higher with archers eyes 19 crits. This includes +4 from racial enemy and +3 from Archer bonus, and I think strength bonus actually worked with Bullet of Darkness. Archers can still specialize with slings, and hit 3 apr with Oil of Speed.

    StummvonBordwehrsemiticgod
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 664
    You can specialize in slings as as an archer - which gives 1/2 apr and another 1/2 apr at level 7. So 2 apr before oil of speed is possible.

    There are 40 regular +3 bullets and 80 void stone bullets in the game as I recall.

    The in game description of the void bullets:
    rqva85szolww.png
    3r9dav62ecfe.png

    histamiinisemiticgodGrond0
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 664
    @histamiini
    The Arla’s Dragonbane would be a real boon if you have to sling Bel into submission..

    But it rquires you to go deep into Durlags and pass the fight. I guess you can charm the King for easier access - so it may be possible. I wouldnt fancy it in a no-reload, but you will surely prevail - best of luck.

    histamiiniOngo
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,187
    @StummvonBordwehr Thanks, yeah I used it in my testing, so I propably need to try to fetch it. Even if it doesn't work, it's something different to try for a change.

    StummvonBordwehrOngo
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,325
    @Arno: Welcome to the forums and welcome to the challenge! Good luck with your generalist mage. You'll need it for Belhifet; he's going to be a nightmare for a character without fighter levels that's not a cleric/mage or fighter/mage/cleric. I'm not actually sure how to deal the 1,172 necessary damage to him without stupendous luck or maybe spamming Greater Restoration scrolls on Caelar.

    Come to think of it, shouldn't Caelar ostensibly suffer only normal damage from enemies instead of double damage? We've been permitting her to join the party in solo runs and having her operate strictly via AI on the grounds that it replicates the effect of having her fight alongside, and outside, a party of 6, but if she fought outside the party, she'd only take half as much damage as if she were a party member, since LoB's double damage only applies to party members.

    I could probably create a mod that would replicate that behavior. I could add a dialog option that would let you ask Caelar to fight alongside you rather than join the party.

    @histamiini: I've double-checked and Bullets of Darkness do apply STR bonuses, so your 20.5 average damage per hit is precisely accurate. I failed to consider specialization in slings, so 3 APR is indeed the maximum; not 2. That amounts to 61.5 damage per round, or death for Belhifet in 5.69 rounds.

    If we take into account regeneration and the fact that the Archer will lose attacks per round by running away from Belhifet and assume STR stands at 18/100 due to Champion's Strength (that is, we assume no DUHM or potion bonuses), then we'd be dealing 31 net damage per round, or death for Belhifet in 11.29 rounds.

    Looks like slings are a solid choice for Belhifet. In fact, for an Archer, the maximum damage is nearly identical to tanking with +3 scimitars (20.5 per hit to 20.625 damage per hit, also at 3 APR). It seems Bullets of Darkness are the way to go, and we'll want 2 pips in slings for Belhifet, which means either no pips in scimitars, or High Mastery instead of Grandmastery for longbows. The haste bug rounds down fractional APR, so losing GM in longbows will only be a slight disadvantage given how many Oils of Speed we'll be using for key fights.

    How do you get the Stone Ally item in SoD?

    StummvonBordwehrhistamiiniAerakarOngo
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,212
    semiticgod wrote: »
    Come to think of it, shouldn't Caelar ostensibly suffer only normal damage from enemies instead of double damage? We've been permitting her to join the party in solo runs and having her operate strictly via AI on the grounds that it replicates the effect of having her fight alongside, and outside, a party of 6, but if she fought outside the party, she'd only take half as much damage as if she were a party member, since LoB's double damage only applies to party members.

    I could probably create a mod that would replicate that behavior. I could add a dialog option that would let you ask Caelar to fight alongside you rather than join the party.
    Sounds interesting. The first times I got to Belhifet were in MP and he doesn't seem to join the party then - I don't know if that offers a route to copy in SP.

    How do you get the Stone Ally item in SoD?
    The mage who's collecting stone statues in the first area you arrive at after Baldur's Gate has it.

    StummvonBordwehrOngo
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 187
    edited March 15
    @histamiini archer to 21 and then dual class ? u lose the bow profiency and u wont get it back changin it to slings might be nice but u cannot get grandmaster with slings...... i already tried this

  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,187
    @Arno Welcome and good luck!

    @semiticgod I was thinking just straight up tanking with a sling. I can drink Violet Potion after Champion's Strength scrolls and get 25 str. Btw do you know if Thac0 bonus from invisibility works against enemies that see though invisibility like Belhifet?

    @Mr_Salty Yeah I tested that too, but I think I'll still try it. Cleric will give summons, harm etc.

    StummvonBordwehrOngo
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,325
    It's my understanding that the +4 bonus to attack works against enemies that see through invisibility, as does the +4 to saves and also AC from Improved Invisibility. It won't work with ranged attacks, though.

    Grond0Ongohistamiini
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 187
    edited March 15
    @histamiini i saw a post somewhere today i was trying to look it back up but cant seem to find it no more lol but there was a custom mod where u can get archer with grandmastery in slings now im not sure if anyone would do that or not what is your take on that ?
    histamiini wrote: »
    @Arno Welcome and good luck!

    @semiticgod I was thinking just straight up tanking with a sling. I can drink Violet Potion after Champion's Strength scrolls and get 25 str. Btw do you know if Thac0 bonus from invisibility works against enemies that see though invisibility like Belhifet?

    @Mr_Salty Yeah I tested that too, but I think I'll still try it. Cleric will give summons, harm etc.

    Edit: i found it
    its called Might and Guile - a tweak mod and kit pack focusing on warriors and rogues

    =================================================

    Add the HALFLING SLINGER kit

    HALFLING SLINGER: The Slinger is the epitome of skill with the sling - the result of halflings' natural aptitude with bows as well as their single-minded dedication to training with the weapon. To become so skilled with the sling, the Slinger has had to sacrifice some proficiency with melee weapons and armor.

    Advantages:
    – +1 to hit and damage rolls with ranged weapon at levels 3, 6, 10, 15, and 21.
    – Can achieve Grand Mastery (+++++) with slings.
    – May learn to use Called Shots at levels 1, 3, 6, 9, and 12. Called Shots may be used at will, and the effects work for one round. The Slinger has a +2 bonus to thac0 and damage while performing Called Shots, but must remain stationary during that time. The Slinger learns the following Called Shots:

    CALLED SHOTS
    – 1st level: Trip Shot. Aimed at the legs, this shot causes the target to fall down for one round upon a failed save vs. Breath.
    – 3rd level: Disarming Shot. This shot knocks loose the targets grasp on a weapon, resulting in a -4 penalty to thac0 and reduced APR for one round, upon a failed save vs. Breath.
    – 6th level: Crippling Shot. This shot causes the target to lose their footing and slowly recover, becoming Slowed for two rounds upon a failed save vs. Breath.
    – 9th level: Stunning Shot. Aimed at the head, this shot causes the target to become dazed for 3 seconds upon a failed save vs. paralyzation.
    – 12th level: Hammer Shot. This shot strikes with incredible force, adding 1d6 crushing damage to the normal missile damage and knocking the target back 5-10 feet, unless the target makes a successful save vs. Breath.
    Disadvantages:
    – May not wear any metal armor.
    – May only become Proficient (+) with melee weapons.
    – May not cast druid spells.

    histamiini
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