@StummvonBordwehr, it's true, that's an interesting book. I've read it when I was in high school (was learning Japanese then and a teacher recommended it), but I guess it wouldn't hurt to read it again after 20 years
Edit: *Trying* to learn Japanese. I gave up after a year. It's not a language you can pick up casually, at least not if you prefer to be literate. Too much work
I read Zen in the Art of Archery and was annoyed by the writer's self-important archery instructor. Partway through Herrigel's (the author's) training, he was having trouble learning something new. After failing many times to get it right using his master's method, he finally figured out a different method that worked better for him.
You'd think the master would be surprised and impressed. You'd be wrong.
The master was so upset that he flat-out refused to give Herrigel any more lessons until Herrigel gave him a heartfelt apology for daring to use a different method from his master--an incredibly childish response for a supposedly wise master. Apparently the master felt upstaged when his student learned something without his help.
So much for a Zen master's rejection of the "self."
@semiticgod , I think the situation you are describing was upsetting the teacher because Herrigel was looking for a shortcut to the goal instead of accepting and working patiently, failing to see that to walk the whole road was more important than reaching the goal quickly.. But I agree with you, to some extent.
Philosophies and religions can always be interesting and inspiring and insightful in their essence, but human failure and pride can distort everything. A bad teacher doesn't mean the whole philosophy was bad.
We're also talking about the 1920s here, when Herrigel was in Japan, and traditional Japanese archery, like all martial arts deriving from samurai tradition, were all very authoritarian and based on obedience and exact repetition.
Creativity, own ideas and innovation weren't appreciated.
Herrigel was criticized much, because he became a member of the NSDAP (the nazi party) when he returned to Germany, and misinterpreted the things he had learned to justify "heroic" nationalism.
As far as I have learned, his teacher had been a master of traditional archery, but not a Zen master, just influenced by it.
Also, Herrigel didn't speak Japanese and was communicating with his teacher via a translator.
I still think that some interesting ideas can be picked up from the book, if you use your own judgement, as we should with any information. Blind copying of methods and strict obedience without questioning is not my forte, either
@Arvia: You're so smart. I like hearing your views on things. They make me feel a little more enlightened.
@semiticgod , it makes me feel very embarrassed to hear such things. I'm just writing down my opinions and thoughts, while other people always have so much background information with quotes, dates and other numbers that I can't remember for the life of me. I even had to google if it was really the 20s and not the 30s.
@semiticgod , here I was, early morning, feeling lousy after a bad day and not enough sleep, and dreading 24h of work ahead of me, and then you go and say such kind things.
By the way, I hope your neck/shoulder/arm is getting better?
@Arvia: Kinda. There's good and bad news: Everything besides the herniated disk is apparently in good health, the pain is less than it was before but the decrease in pain has slowed down (progress is very minimal), the painkillers are ineffective and taste terrible, I got a new topical painkiller thingy that I'll start using tomorrow or tonight, I need to return a call that was probably about physical therapy scheduling, and if things don't improve I'll get a shot.
Please get as much sleep as you need, whenever you can. You're worth it.
@semiticgod, so it's a herniated cervical disk?
It's good if it's "only" pain (not meant the way it might sound!) and no sensory or motor deficit. I hope you find something to control the pain effectively soon, and get well quickly.
Thank you for your good advice, but sometimes the choice is between getting enough sleep and having some quiet time where I'm alone. I need that, too, to stay sane (assuming I ever was). A tricky balance.
@Arvia: I understand. I was just worried about your health.
There's some occasional numbness, but it's very rare, and it's usually only when I've used the neckbrace to separate the disks to relieve the pressure, and then take off the neckbrace too quickly and suddenly put a bunch of extra pressure on all at once. My PCP detected some weakness a while ago, but I went to a different doctor and he detected very little weakness, so it does look like pain is the only real concern at this point.
I was actually rather worried about loss of function. Early on, I had this paranoid idea that the wrong move could paralyze me!
@semiticgod , I can totally understand that fear of remaining paralyzed, especially when it's the neck.
Pity that "Heal", "Lay on Hands" and "Greater Restoration" don't work in real life, I'd cast it if I could
My brother had a herniated lumbar disk (he's a carpenter) when he was 26 or something, and has made a complete recovery. I hope you'll reach that soon, too.
And I think I'm going to get some sleep now, hoping for a night without alarm (I'm at work).
A reason for happiness: Tomorrow morning I'll go home and have three weeks off!
When I put my son to sleep last night, he hugged me and said I'm the world's best mom. I said that was sweet, but he couldn't possibly know that, having only me and no other moms to compare me to. He said: "But my life is beautiful. Isn't that proof enough?"
I'm going to do everything necessary to keep it that way. I can't change the past, but maybe I can influence the future just enough.
I just stumbled onto this thread, and after reading the last few pages I can say it really works! Feeling a big boost.
I started a job in March which involves an hour and a half commute... each way. (Thankfully it's on the train and on foot, not sitting in a car.) Over the last few months I've gradually been becoming more and more exhausted by the rhythm and maintaining some semblance of a social/personal life (definitely not enough sleep), but next week I finally get to go on holiday for three weeks, and I simply can't wait!
@Arvia , I hope the same of your holiday, for you! We all need to let our bodies and minds recover from time to time. Do you have any plans for your time off?
In fact I do try to use the train time well, sometimes for reading or drawing, but mostly for endless failed re-attempts at NR-ing my favourite games. Several times now I've nearly missed my stop by being way too engrossed in the battle of the moment. Unfortunately the daily rhythm's tiredness means my concentration and attentiveness are usually a bit lax, so I invariably make a fatal mistake in-game, but nevertheless it's fun. 😀
that's why I always use alarms on trains. I get so immersed in games, books or even my own thoughts that I wouldn't even notice if the train was on fire.
I'm on a family vacation already. No, don't ask why I'm online in this case 🙂. One kid needed a break from people today, so we took turns staying with him, and he didn't want me in the same room. That's good, I needed to recover. They made me ride a roller coaster with them yesterday, and it was terrifying. I'm pretty sure somebody had to cast Stone to Flesh on me afterwards.
No immediate plans for the remaining two weeks, except to get things done at home, and to eat as much as possible, because people start to frown and ask me if I'm eating enough. Perfect excuse for icecream!
Two years ago, I was offered the opportunity to accept an intern on work-release from a boarding school for troubled teen girls. I work in a museum, so I always have openings for volunteers, but I was, at first, hesitant to accept not being overly versed in troubled teens nor teen girls. But ultimately I decided it couldn't hurt anything. Over the course of the following year I saw a marked improvement in her across the board, she was without a doubt my most enthusiastic volunteer, and I gained a lifelong friend. On her next to last day before graduating from the program we sat down and made a 1 year life plan for her and more or less promised that one way or another we would meet in a year's time to review and see if we didn't need to make a new plan (she's from several states away). I'm not trained in doing that by any means, but for whatever reason she trusted me and had heeded my advice throughout that year.
Join every theater, art, and choral program she could. She has a remarkable singing voice and can draw/paint well. Get into driver's ed ASAP and get on her way to having a car, and once securing that get a job. I steered her towards nursing home cafeteria work.
Well, it's been a year and her parents were very understanding of her desire to visit and have sent her back out here for a week, she's staying with another couple who also mentored her during the program (they were officially assigned to her by the boarding school). She followed the plan and is doing extraordinarily well in school, and seems to have developed a robust social life with kids who have similar interests.
In spite of my initial hesitancy, I have found the experience of being a mentor to a young person who needed some grace and a nonjudgemental ear, to be incredibly rewarding - by far one of the most rewarding experiences of my entire life.
So in early June I went for 14 days to Brazil on a business trip. While there I figured I could try to meet up some locals with the help of Tinder. The first meet-up was with a girl on the first Tuesday. Then we met up again in the weekend and spend every free hour after that together. Then I went back again on my vacation and spend another 9 days with her in early July and now we are in love and together. Well, as together as two persons in love can be with about 30 hours of travel time between them. We have created a plan for how to be together, talked about the future and I dare say that over my ~25 years or since my first crush, I have never met a person who are so perfectly tailored to me. It's almost uncanny. Who'd guess I'd have to travel across half the world to find my perfect match though? My dear mother is not as happy though, she fears I will move to Brazil! And who knows, maybe I will. Anyways, haven't felt this good since.. well, to be frank I don't even remember since when, so it's probably a long, long time ago.
So in early June I went for 14 days to Brazil on a business trip. While there I figured I could try to meet up some locals with the help of Tinder. The first meet-up was with a girl on the first Tuesday. Then we met up again in the weekend and spend every free hour after that together. Then I went back again on my vacation and spend another 9 days with her in early July and now we are in love and together. Well, as together as two persons in love can be with about 30 hours of travel time between them. We have created a plan for how to be together, talked about the future and I dare say that over my ~25 years or since my first crush, I have never met a person who are so perfectly tailored to me. It's almost uncanny. Who'd guess I'd have to travel across half the world to find my perfect match though? My dear mother is not as happy though, she fears I will move to Brazil! And who knows, maybe I will. Anyways, haven't felt this good since.. well, to be frank I don't even remember since when, so it's probably a long, long time ago.
Might want to talk to @SorcererV1ct0r before moving to Brazil. He lives there and may have some good advice...
So in early June I went for 14 days to Brazil on a business trip. While there I figured I could try to meet up some locals with the help of Tinder. The first meet-up was with a girl on the first Tuesday. Then we met up again in the weekend and spend every free hour after that together. Then I went back again on my vacation and spend another 9 days with her in early July and now we are in love and together. Well, as together as two persons in love can be with about 30 hours of travel time between them. We have created a plan for how to be together, talked about the future and I dare say that over my ~25 years or since my first crush, I have never met a person who are so perfectly tailored to me. It's almost uncanny. Who'd guess I'd have to travel across half the world to find my perfect match though? My dear mother is not as happy though, she fears I will move to Brazil! And who knows, maybe I will. Anyways, haven't felt this good since.. well, to be frank I don't even remember since when, so it's probably a long, long time ago.
Might want to talk to SorcererV1ct0r before moving to Brazil. He lives there and may have some good advice...
Is hard to talk since is an continental country. The life in the southernmost state and the northernmost state are completely different.
So in early June I went for 14 days to Brazil on a business trip. While there I figured I could try to meet up some locals with the help of Tinder. The first meet-up was with a girl on the first Tuesday. Then we met up again in the weekend and spend every free hour after that together. Then I went back again on my vacation and spend another 9 days with her in early July and now we are in love and together. Well, as together as two persons in love can be with about 30 hours of travel time between them. We have created a plan for how to be together, talked about the future and I dare say that over my ~25 years or since my first crush, I have never met a person who are so perfectly tailored to me. It's almost uncanny. Who'd guess I'd have to travel across half the world to find my perfect match though? My dear mother is not as happy though, she fears I will move to Brazil! And who knows, maybe I will. Anyways, haven't felt this good since.. well, to be frank I don't even remember since when, so it's probably a long, long time ago.
... 14 days to Brazil ....The first meet-up was with a girl on the first Tuesday... spend every free hour after that together.... went back again on my vacation and spend another 9 days with her... now we are in love and together....I have never met a person who are so perfectly tailored to me. ... Who'd guess I'd have to travel across half the world to find my perfect match .... I will move to Brazil! ...
I think we all just witnessed the sparks of the new couple on the next season of 90 Day Fiance good luck and enjoy that 'falling in love' feeling
At least there is a silver lining to this day. My son's disability has been approved by the government. We will be getting funding to help pay for his necessities.
@ThacoBell: Yes! I'm happy for you and your family. This is exactly the sort of thing they need to cover. Your family is already working hard to take care of each other.
Comments
Edit: *Trying* to learn Japanese. I gave up after a year. It's not a language you can pick up casually, at least not if you prefer to be literate. Too much work
You'd think the master would be surprised and impressed. You'd be wrong.
The master was so upset that he flat-out refused to give Herrigel any more lessons until Herrigel gave him a heartfelt apology for daring to use a different method from his master--an incredibly childish response for a supposedly wise master. Apparently the master felt upstaged when his student learned something without his help.
So much for a Zen master's rejection of the "self."
Philosophies and religions can always be interesting and inspiring and insightful in their essence, but human failure and pride can distort everything. A bad teacher doesn't mean the whole philosophy was bad.
We're also talking about the 1920s here, when Herrigel was in Japan, and traditional Japanese archery, like all martial arts deriving from samurai tradition, were all very authoritarian and based on obedience and exact repetition.
Creativity, own ideas and innovation weren't appreciated.
Herrigel was criticized much, because he became a member of the NSDAP (the nazi party) when he returned to Germany, and misinterpreted the things he had learned to justify "heroic" nationalism.
As far as I have learned, his teacher had been a master of traditional archery, but not a Zen master, just influenced by it.
Also, Herrigel didn't speak Japanese and was communicating with his teacher via a translator.
I still think that some interesting ideas can be picked up from the book, if you use your own judgement, as we should with any information. Blind copying of methods and strict obedience without questioning is not my forte, either
@semiticgod , it makes me feel very embarrassed to hear such things. I'm just writing down my opinions and thoughts, while other people always have so much background information with quotes, dates and other numbers that I can't remember for the life of me. I even had to google if it was really the 20s and not the 30s.
Edit: Thank you, anyway.
By the way, I hope your neck/shoulder/arm is getting better?
Please get as much sleep as you need, whenever you can. You're worth it.
It's good if it's "only" pain (not meant the way it might sound!) and no sensory or motor deficit. I hope you find something to control the pain effectively soon, and get well quickly.
Thank you for your good advice, but sometimes the choice is between getting enough sleep and having some quiet time where I'm alone. I need that, too, to stay sane (assuming I ever was). A tricky balance.
There's some occasional numbness, but it's very rare, and it's usually only when I've used the neckbrace to separate the disks to relieve the pressure, and then take off the neckbrace too quickly and suddenly put a bunch of extra pressure on all at once. My PCP detected some weakness a while ago, but I went to a different doctor and he detected very little weakness, so it does look like pain is the only real concern at this point.
I was actually rather worried about loss of function. Early on, I had this paranoid idea that the wrong move could paralyze me!
Pity that "Heal", "Lay on Hands" and "Greater Restoration" don't work in real life, I'd cast it if I could
My brother had a herniated lumbar disk (he's a carpenter) when he was 26 or something, and has made a complete recovery. I hope you'll reach that soon, too.
And I think I'm going to get some sleep now, hoping for a night without alarm (I'm at work).
A reason for happiness: Tomorrow morning I'll go home and have three weeks off!
I'm going to do everything necessary to keep it that way. I can't change the past, but maybe I can influence the future just enough.
I started a job in March which involves an hour and a half commute... each way. (Thankfully it's on the train and on foot, not sitting in a car.) Over the last few months I've gradually been becoming more and more exhausted by the rhythm and maintaining some semblance of a social/personal life (definitely not enough sleep), but next week I finally get to go on holiday for three weeks, and I simply can't wait!
Can you maybe use the time on the train for something you enjoy, so that you get something positive out of it every day?
@Arvia , I hope the same of your holiday, for you! We all need to let our bodies and minds recover from time to time. Do you have any plans for your time off?
In fact I do try to use the train time well, sometimes for reading or drawing, but mostly for endless failed re-attempts at NR-ing my favourite games. Several times now I've nearly missed my stop by being way too engrossed in the battle of the moment. Unfortunately the daily rhythm's tiredness means my concentration and attentiveness are usually a bit lax, so I invariably make a fatal mistake in-game, but nevertheless it's fun. 😀
@Stromael,
that's why I always use alarms on trains. I get so immersed in games, books or even my own thoughts that I wouldn't even notice if the train was on fire.
I'm on a family vacation already. No, don't ask why I'm online in this case 🙂. One kid needed a break from people today, so we took turns staying with him, and he didn't want me in the same room. That's good, I needed to recover. They made me ride a roller coaster with them yesterday, and it was terrifying. I'm pretty sure somebody had to cast Stone to Flesh on me afterwards.
No immediate plans for the remaining two weeks, except to get things done at home, and to eat as much as possible, because people start to frown and ask me if I'm eating enough. Perfect excuse for icecream!
OT: *What* happened to the comment window?
Join every theater, art, and choral program she could. She has a remarkable singing voice and can draw/paint well. Get into driver's ed ASAP and get on her way to having a car, and once securing that get a job. I steered her towards nursing home cafeteria work.
Well, it's been a year and her parents were very understanding of her desire to visit and have sent her back out here for a week, she's staying with another couple who also mentored her during the program (they were officially assigned to her by the boarding school). She followed the plan and is doing extraordinarily well in school, and seems to have developed a robust social life with kids who have similar interests.
In spite of my initial hesitancy, I have found the experience of being a mentor to a young person who needed some grace and a nonjudgemental ear, to be incredibly rewarding - by far one of the most rewarding experiences of my entire life.
Might want to talk to @SorcererV1ct0r before moving to Brazil. He lives there and may have some good advice...
@Skatan Daw
Is hard to talk since is an continental country. The life in the southernmost state and the northernmost state are completely different.
What state are you in?
Curitiba, Parana.
Not joking. I live in this city; Generally when people from US come here, they go only to "hell de janeiro". any impressions about the city?
Many, but that's probably not for this thread
I think we all just witnessed the sparks of the new couple on the next season of 90 Day Fiance