From my experience, SCS Davaeorn aims his Stinking Cloud/Web sequencer at the trapped intersection in his lair, not at your character, so if you quickly run past there (maybe to one of the side rooms), you should be able to avoid it. Also, if you get your whole party past the trapped hallway, the guard reinforcements will have to walk through the Web and Stinking Cloud to get to you, which gives you some time to handle the other enemies.
Fantastic ideas, guys. I'll give it a shot soloing him with RoE and PoMB, whilst the other 5 tackle the spawning guards.
Any thoughts how to keep them alive, should Davy jump right next to them?
EDIT: Forgot to mention that somehow I drew the Battle Horrors away, already. This, after triggering his dialogue. All I did was sneak ahead with my invisible Thief to disarm the traps, then sneak farther ahead until I saw them. His circle was red but he didn't follow me, whilst his cronies gave chase instantly despite my invisibility.
EDIT 2: It worked! Spectacularly well, actually. Took 5 charges of the RoE, and my second Potion of Magic Blocking got dispelled by Davaeorn, so I had to gulp a third to be safe, but we pulled through. He didn't ever Dimension Door too close to the rest of the party. On to the Gate!
I was wondering, *IF* my party makes it into SoD, will the game remember, after the starting dungeon, that Dynaheir is supposed to be dead? Or will she be recruitable again in the city with Minsc? That would be weird!
Thank you, @semiticgod ! If I get that far, I'll have to decide if I consider her dead for RP reasons and don't recruit her... that would mean using a totally different party, which could be interesting.
They do make chunked characters that reappear come back with a completely red palette for whatever reason, I guess to make you feel bad about using someone who's supposed to be dead.
If you can stomach him (you're playing a paladin, so probably not), Edwin is the only other arcane caster before Troll Claw Woods, where you get access to... A Skald. Not exactly a prime caster, though wands are usable again. And after that, you can get... Neera at Bridgefort. A bit risky, though not impossibly so.
So, let's talk about Ulgoth's Beard and Durlag's Tower... to do it, or not to do it?
I've finished the Ice Island and the first level of Durlag's Tower, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea to continue.
I mean, I have only played it once. During my first run, I had two reloads that I know how to avoid now (I stupidly rushed into the narrow room with the Dwarven Doom Guards with my whole party instead of using the narrow hallway to my advantage, and I underestimated the Greater Wyverns in the room with the statues), but I remember very, very narrowly escaping death in the throne room with the Greater Doppelgangers, and on the chess board.
And many fights consumed irreplaceable resources. So, I wonder if it's worth the trouble.
I always do Durlag's in full party runs, but there are plenty of reasons to skip the dungeon - if you aren't familiar with the trap locations, the greater doppelganger spells and how to counter them or if you feel uncomfortable spamming fireballs via wands/potions or webs at the chessboard, if you don't like to spend time drinking potions for full fire and electricity immunity for this encounter just in case, if you can't turn your whole party invisible when returning to the Beard (otherwise the cult assassins might get you with a backstab) - in those cases, skipping it might simply be safer, because you certainly don't need the extra xp and items to get through SoD.
On the other hand, it's a great dungeon, and once you've developed strategies for all the tricky encounters, it's relatively safe - not much to go wrong in terms of RNG (the dwarven warder fight can involve some dire charm spells, which are hard to counter at this point, but there are ways around that).
If you decide to go there, I'd suggest to take a bunch of wands and tons of potions with you and use them liberally - no reason at this point in the game that your fighters shouldn't always have some kind of giant strength, heroism etc.
I've decided to continue. The second lower level was okay. Not ridiculously easy, but nobody got killed.
My struggles during my first run were obviously just because I was playing blind (and stupid, always running in instead of choosing my battlefield. Thanks to @BelgarathMTH for making me aware of that).
Now, the third one. I'm afraid of those invisible guys with the name that sounds like something Japanese. That room is full of traps, but one of them might chunk Alora with her 31HP with a single backstab. I hate to use summons as cannon fodder when I'm playing a paladin, but I don't see a reasonable alternative.
@arvia you can use an invisible thief to clear the traps. You can then tempt the ashirikuru to show themselves by sending someone forward with lots of hits (or stoneskin).
@Arvia I usually send in a buffed fighter supported by a hidden thief for dealing with the traps and a few skeleton warriors and they make short(er) work of those invisible backstabbing Ashirukuru. I leave the spell casters back behind the closed entrance door in the hallway. Close that door and they can't come out and backstab you, which I have seen happen with the door open. They are also undead so if you have an extra protection form undead scroll that can help.
And if difficult, the area is optional. The only thing worth grabbing is Bala's Axe.
My 100 hp, or more with potions of heroism, should be enough to survive them... I'm going to be extra careful with Alora hidden and me as tank and bait.
And leaving the others behind a closed door is good advice, thank you.
I just died in a solo run with a cleric of Talos. Apparently you can die in the Ducal Palace if one of the guards attacks Sarevok due to confusion from the doppelganger mage's Chaos spell. Despite the fact that the guards are neutral, they turn Sarevok hostile by attacking him. This means that there is always a small chance of death if the doppelganger mage gets a Chaos spell off the ground, even if the player and all charmed or summoned critters are immune to charm or make their saves.
The funny thing is that, while I was testing to figure out the cause of the death, I actually found that I could attack or even kill one of the Grand Dukes and still win the fight as long as the other survived. Attacking the other guards is also safe, at least in my install. In fact, I was able to literally bomb the entire area with the One Gift Lost and it didn't turn anyone hostile, it dealt no damage to Liia Jannath due to her Protection from Fire pre-buff, and it didn't aggro Sarevok because of his 100% magic resistance.
You'll still lose lots of reputation if you kill one of the guards, but if you see the guards getting confused, the safest thing might actually be to kill them before they can try to attack Sarevok, because a single attack roll, or at least a successful hit, means an instant game over.
A trick for backstab-protection: in areas where you expect backstab trouble, have your squishier characters equip melee weapons. That way, they don't take the extra 4 damage from being hit with a melee attack when holding a ranged weapon. They also don't give the opponent the +4 to hit for the same reason, so the odds of the backstab missing outright go up.
That bonus damage is multiplied by the backstab multiplier; in the case of the ashikuruku and their 3x multiplier, it's +12 damage on a backstab. For Alora's chance of survival, or of not being chunked if she dies, that's a big deal.
The mage spell Detect Invisibility is also nice here; it casts very quickly (speed 2), and it gives you a chance to pounce and kill the enemy while they're visible. Don't bother with the priest counterpart Invisibility Purge, as that's a much slower cast (speed 9).
If you're prepared to micro-manage it's also possible to get attackers to show themselves without attacking most of the time. Invisibility is lost when someone commits to an attack, which happens slightly before an attack is actually made. If you keep a character moving in a circle, that makes it difficult for an attacker to attack from the front and give themselves a chance to actually make an attack, after committing to the attempt, but before you move out of range. Attackers using very fast weapon speed or range 2 weapons have a better chance, but even they will often fail to make an attack against this strategy.
@Grond0 I've only seen that behavior from player characters. Does it actually apply to enemies as well? I've run away from backstabbers in the past but they've only broken invisibility after they made an attack roll.
It does. As I said success depends partly on the particular enemy being faced, but I probably avoid something like 60%-70% of attacks on average like that. If you move constantly the enemy will probably never actually commit to an attack, so you have to pause slightly between moves - not long enough for them to actually hit you, but long enough for them to commit to an attack. I think the mechanics are that invisibility disappears at the point that they attempt an attack, but there's an initiative roll in addition to the weapon speed that determine the point in the round that the attack roll occurs. If the combination of those gives a speed of 0, then I think the attack will occur, so you won't be able to ever avoid all attacks by certain types of enemies (though it would be possible against those with very slow weapon speeds, like gnolls or hobgoblins).
From my experience, SCS Davaeorn aims his Stinking Cloud/Web sequencer at the trapped intersection in his lair, not at your character, so if you quickly run past there (maybe to one of the side rooms), you should be able to avoid it. Also, if you get your whole party past the trapped hallway, the guard reinforcements will have to walk through the Web and Stinking Cloud to get to you, which gives you some time to handle the other enemies.
The tactics that I have used in this situation is to go past all the enemies whilst invisible and attack fro the rear. Quite effective! You can then use web, then fireballs, cloudkill etc.
I have found that in general, if you do the unexpected then you are more likely to win as the carefully worked out sequencers are no longer appropriate.
Thank you, @semiticgod ! If I get that far, I'll have to decide if I consider her dead for RP reasons and don't recruit her... that would mean using a totally different party, which could be interesting.
Always remember that there are spells such as resurrection and the like, and the gods sometimes interfere, so deaths do not need to be permanent from a RP point of view.
I've decided to continue. The second lower level was okay. Not ridiculously easy, but nobody got killed.
My struggles during my first run were obviously just because I was playing blind (and stupid, always running in instead of choosing my battlefield. Thanks to @BelgarathMTH for making me aware of that).
Now, the third one. I'm afraid of those invisible guys with the name that sounds like something Japanese. That room is full of traps, but one of them might chunk Alora with her 31HP with a single backstab. I hate to use summons as cannon fodder when I'm playing a paladin, but I don't see a reasonable alternative.
My answer to the Ashirukuru is to disarm the traps with an invisible thief. Make the entire party invisible, go through the door and shut it behind you.
The experience that you get from an Ashirukuru isn't worth fighting for and neither is their equipment.
But doesn't disarming a trap break invisibility?
And Hide in Shadows isn't reliable enough, Alora isn't too good at it and sometimes becomes visible during several failed attempts.
Reliable enough for other situations, but not enough to avoid being spotted by an Ashirukuru.
@Arvia: Disarming traps doesn't break invisibility, though opening locks does. You can have Alora attempt to hide away from the Ashirukurus until she succeeds, then have her run out to wherever she needs to be. Stealth lasts for 4 rounds, so if you're efficient, you should be able to disarm everything, at least while hasted.
You can use the quick save button to see if there are enemies nearby. If an enemy is within someone's field of vision, even if the enemy is not visible, then you won't be able to quick save. Same goes for stealth: while you can maintain invisibility anywhere, you can't initiate stealth (that is, click the button and get it to work) if an enemy is within your line of sight. Where it's safe for Alora to quick save, it's safe for Alora to be visible.
But doesn't disarming a trap break invisibility?
And Hide in Shadows isn't reliable enough, Alora isn't too good at it and sometimes becomes visible during several failed attempts.
Reliable enough for other situations, but not enough to avoid being spotted by an Ashirukuru.
You can also use Invisibility on Alora, let her disarm traps, then have Branwen cast Sanctuary and send her to the fountain. Looting it won't break her Sanctuary, and enemies won't attack or even follow her. Just have her walk straight back to the others, away from the Ashirukurus.
I've noticed that I lost the final battle against Sarevok with 3 unused Protection from Magic scrolls in my inventory. A bit embarrassing, actually.
Then, reading a bit about those scrolls, I've seen that they can be used on strong spellcaster opponents as a guaranteed dispel and to disable their casting.
I don't think I would "waste" them for that, but that gave me the idea if it's possible to use cursed scrolls on enemies as a weapon. Has anyone tried that?
I suppose that you can't save against them, but I'm asking myself if they're affected by magic resistance etc. If not, it would be cool to use the Cursed Scroll of Weakness on Sarevok, for example. Or other strong melee fighters, who suddenly wouldn't be able to walk with STR 5.
I've tried using cursed scrolls like that in the past - and unfortunately it doesn't seem to work. There are other 'beneficial' spells that can be used to nerf opponents though - like the arcane strength spell or divine magic resistance.
For what it worth, personally I see using "buff/protection" spells/scrolls on enemies as an exploit/cheese. Someone might like/does not mind of such approach but in my opinion those spells/scroll aren't supposed to be using that way.
...Or other strong melee fighters, who suddenly wouldn't be able to walk with STR 5.
Even if you could use a cursed scroll that way, it wouldn't work. Encumbrance rules are not applied to anyone outside the party.
If you hit Sarevok with a Ray of Enfeeblement spell, so that his 18/00 strength becomes 5, he can still move just fine. He does, at least, go from +3 attack and +6 damage to -2 attack and -1 damage on his melee swings.
Using a Strength spell on Sarevok would also slightly decrease his damage output, and it would last longer than Ray of Enfeeblement and offer no saving throw.
In my install, Protection from Magic scrolls can't be used on anyone but the user him or herself in BG1; that is only possible in BG2. They're stil excellent buff options against Sarevok, though, since you can still drink potions after you use the scroll.
Cursed scrolls can indeed only be used on self, with the sole exception of cursed monster summoning scrolls.
I've noticed that I lost the final battle against Sarevok with 3 unused Protection from Magic scrolls in my inventory. A bit embarrassing, actually.
Then, reading a bit about those scrolls, I've seen that they can be used on strong spellcaster opponents as a guaranteed dispel and to disable their casting.
I don't think I would "waste" them for that, but that gave me the idea if it's possible to use cursed scrolls on enemies as a weapon. Has anyone tried that?
I suppose that you can't save against them, but I'm asking myself if they're affected by magic resistance etc. If not, it would be cool to use the Cursed Scroll of Weakness on Sarevok, for example. Or other strong melee fighters, who suddenly wouldn't be able to walk with STR 5.
Before things got changed, I used to use protection from magic on the demonknight at the top of Durlag's Tower. This stopped him teleporting away with the result that you gained an extra paoir of gauntlets, armour, and a helm of opposite alignment plus of course the experience. @semiticgod said that the scroll couldn't be used in BG1, however it could with Tutu installed. (It isn't with EET installed. )
Comments
Any thoughts how to keep them alive, should Davy jump right next to them?
EDIT: Forgot to mention that somehow I drew the Battle Horrors away, already. This, after triggering his dialogue. All I did was sneak ahead with my invisible Thief to disarm the traps, then sneak farther ahead until I saw them. His circle was red but he didn't follow me, whilst his cronies gave chase instantly despite my invisibility.
EDIT 2: It worked! Spectacularly well, actually. Took 5 charges of the RoE, and my second Potion of Magic Blocking got dispelled by Davaeorn, so I had to gulp a third to be safe, but we pulled through. He didn't ever Dimension Door too close to the rest of the party. On to the Gate!
Thank you, @semiticgod ! If I get that far, I'll have to decide if I consider her dead for RP reasons and don't recruit her... that would mean using a totally different party, which could be interesting.
If you can stomach him (you're playing a paladin, so probably not), Edwin is the only other arcane caster before Troll Claw Woods, where you get access to... A Skald. Not exactly a prime caster, though wands are usable again. And after that, you can get... Neera at Bridgefort. A bit risky, though not impossibly so.
I've finished the Ice Island and the first level of Durlag's Tower, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea to continue.
I mean, I have only played it once. During my first run, I had two reloads that I know how to avoid now (I stupidly rushed into the narrow room with the Dwarven Doom Guards with my whole party instead of using the narrow hallway to my advantage, and I underestimated the Greater Wyverns in the room with the statues), but I remember very, very narrowly escaping death in the throne room with the Greater Doppelgangers, and on the chess board.
And many fights consumed irreplaceable resources. So, I wonder if it's worth the trouble.
On the other hand, it's a great dungeon, and once you've developed strategies for all the tricky encounters, it's relatively safe - not much to go wrong in terms of RNG (the dwarven warder fight can involve some dire charm spells, which are hard to counter at this point, but there are ways around that).
If you decide to go there, I'd suggest to take a bunch of wands and tons of potions with you and use them liberally - no reason at this point in the game that your fighters shouldn't always have some kind of giant strength, heroism etc.
My struggles during my first run were obviously just because I was playing blind (and stupid, always running in instead of choosing my battlefield. Thanks to @BelgarathMTH for making me aware of that).
Now, the third one. I'm afraid of those invisible guys with the name that sounds like something Japanese. That room is full of traps, but one of them might chunk Alora with her 31HP with a single backstab. I hate to use summons as cannon fodder when I'm playing a paladin, but I don't see a reasonable alternative.
And if difficult, the area is optional. The only thing worth grabbing is Bala's Axe.
My 100 hp, or more with potions of heroism, should be enough to survive them... I'm going to be extra careful with Alora hidden and me as tank and bait.
And leaving the others behind a closed door is good advice, thank you.
Pity that I have to work tomorrow ?.
The funny thing is that, while I was testing to figure out the cause of the death, I actually found that I could attack or even kill one of the Grand Dukes and still win the fight as long as the other survived. Attacking the other guards is also safe, at least in my install. In fact, I was able to literally bomb the entire area with the One Gift Lost and it didn't turn anyone hostile, it dealt no damage to Liia Jannath due to her Protection from Fire pre-buff, and it didn't aggro Sarevok because of his 100% magic resistance.
You'll still lose lots of reputation if you kill one of the guards, but if you see the guards getting confused, the safest thing might actually be to kill them before they can try to attack Sarevok, because a single attack roll, or at least a successful hit, means an instant game over.
That bonus damage is multiplied by the backstab multiplier; in the case of the ashikuruku and their 3x multiplier, it's +12 damage on a backstab. For Alora's chance of survival, or of not being chunked if she dies, that's a big deal.
The mage spell Detect Invisibility is also nice here; it casts very quickly (speed 2), and it gives you a chance to pounce and kill the enemy while they're visible. Don't bother with the priest counterpart Invisibility Purge, as that's a much slower cast (speed 9).
The tactics that I have used in this situation is to go past all the enemies whilst invisible and attack fro the rear. Quite effective! You can then use web, then fireballs, cloudkill etc.
I have found that in general, if you do the unexpected then you are more likely to win as the carefully worked out sequencers are no longer appropriate.
Always remember that there are spells such as resurrection and the like, and the gods sometimes interfere, so deaths do not need to be permanent from a RP point of view.
My answer to the Ashirukuru is to disarm the traps with an invisible thief. Make the entire party invisible, go through the door and shut it behind you.
The experience that you get from an Ashirukuru isn't worth fighting for and neither is their equipment.
And Hide in Shadows isn't reliable enough, Alora isn't too good at it and sometimes becomes visible during several failed attempts.
Reliable enough for other situations, but not enough to avoid being spotted by an Ashirukuru.
You can use the quick save button to see if there are enemies nearby. If an enemy is within someone's field of vision, even if the enemy is not visible, then you won't be able to quick save. Same goes for stealth: while you can maintain invisibility anywhere, you can't initiate stealth (that is, click the button and get it to work) if an enemy is within your line of sight. Where it's safe for Alora to quick save, it's safe for Alora to be visible.
You can also use Invisibility on Alora, let her disarm traps, then have Branwen cast Sanctuary and send her to the fountain. Looting it won't break her Sanctuary, and enemies won't attack or even follow her. Just have her walk straight back to the others, away from the Ashirukurus.
Then, reading a bit about those scrolls, I've seen that they can be used on strong spellcaster opponents as a guaranteed dispel and to disable their casting.
I don't think I would "waste" them for that, but that gave me the idea if it's possible to use cursed scrolls on enemies as a weapon. Has anyone tried that?
I suppose that you can't save against them, but I'm asking myself if they're affected by magic resistance etc. If not, it would be cool to use the Cursed Scroll of Weakness on Sarevok, for example. Or other strong melee fighters, who suddenly wouldn't be able to walk with STR 5.
If you hit Sarevok with a Ray of Enfeeblement spell, so that his 18/00 strength becomes 5, he can still move just fine. He does, at least, go from +3 attack and +6 damage to -2 attack and -1 damage on his melee swings.
In my install, Protection from Magic scrolls can't be used on anyone but the user him or herself in BG1; that is only possible in BG2. They're stil excellent buff options against Sarevok, though, since you can still drink potions after you use the scroll.
Cursed scrolls can indeed only be used on self, with the sole exception of cursed monster summoning scrolls.
It would have been fun to use the Cursed Scroll of Ugliness on an arrogant dragon
Really, buffing with potions still works after using a Protection from Magic scroll? That's great to know.
Before things got changed, I used to use protection from magic on the demonknight at the top of Durlag's Tower. This stopped him teleporting away with the result that you gained an extra paoir of gauntlets, armour, and a helm of opposite alignment plus of course the experience. @semiticgod said that the scroll couldn't be used in BG1, however it could with Tutu installed. (It isn't with EET installed.