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Pathfinder : Kingmaker

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  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,575
    edited July 2020
    RTwP is how the game as designed, and I'll continue to play it that way. All the same, I dont mind the idea of them adding the functionality for people how would prefer to play it in TB.

    As a side thought - It probably wasnt too hard for them to add it in since I guess RotW will have a TB mode. At least, that would be my reasoning.

    Also, just glad to see the game continue to be supported. Owlcat seem pretty dedicated to fixing issues, and that's great to see in developer.

    Post edited by BallpointMan on
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    I really, really hope it's save game compatible. I'm in the middle of a run right now.

    ...might have to turn off updates. I would very much like to see how the TB works though. I've been using the TB more or less constantly for the entire run (with exceptions when keeping it in TB kills NPCs).

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,166
    Guys, I an re playing teh game, recently finished the Pitax tournament but the quest to enter the dreams of the Nymph din't triggered. Did the game bugged?

  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    Guys, I an re playing teh game, recently finished the Pitax tournament but the quest to enter the dreams of the Nymph din't triggered. Did the game bugged?

    You have to complete a project before you can enter her dreams, think either the court mage or culture minister can do it.

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,166
    Guys, I an re playing teh game, recently finished the Pitax tournament but the quest to enter the dreams of the Nymph din't triggered. Did the game bugged?

    You have to complete a project before you can enter her dreams, think either the court mage or culture minister can do it.

    Already "solved" the problem. The project just took more to appear than usual. Maybe because i an not doing the Rovagug dungeon this time.

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,166
    edited July 2020
    Guys, I an trying to lift the Lanter King curse but apparently an doing no progress after the OIeg's Trading Post. Killed all cyclops on Varnhold... Nothing. Killed all trolls on Trobold = Nothing. Cleared Lamashtu shrine = nothing. What i need to do? I still can only use tier 2 spells and if wasen't by kineticists, i would't be able to kill anything. I an felling completely useless like playing nwn2 as a caster without installing spell fixes.

  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 521
    Guys, I an trying to lift the Lanter King curse but apparently an doing no progress after the OIeg's Trading Post. Killed all cyclops on Varnhold... Nothing. Killed all trolls on Trobold = Nothing. Cleared Lamashtu shrine = nothing. What i need to do? I still can only use tier 2 spells and if wasen't by kineticists, i would't be able to kill anything. I an felling completely useless like playing nwn2 as a caster without installing spell fixes.

    Killing everything and completing the dialog with whoever is left alive should be all you need to do to remove the curse fragment. The dialog should say something like, “Thanks for saving us! We’ll go back to the capital and defend it now!”

    I believe the four crucial fights to lift the curse are Oleg’s, Varnhold, Trobold and Pitax. I think the rest are optional.

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,166
    bleusteel wrote: »
    Guys, I an trying to lift the Lanter King curse but apparently an doing no progress after the OIeg's Trading Post. Killed all cyclops on Varnhold... Nothing. Killed all trolls on Trobold = Nothing. Cleared Lamashtu shrine = nothing. What i need to do? I still can only use tier 2 spells and if wasen't by kineticists, i would't be able to kill anything. I an felling completely useless like playing nwn2 as a caster without installing spell fixes.

    Killing everything and completing the dialog with whoever is left alive should be all you need to do to remove the curse fragment. The dialog should say something like, “Thanks for saving us! We’ll go back to the capital and defend it now!”

    I believe the four crucial fights to lift the curse are Oleg’s, Varnhold, Trobold and Pitax. I think the rest are optional.

    The dialog wasen't triggering however, loading a previous save solved the problem.

    PS : I was playing with a lot of mods. So I can't blame the game

    bleusteel
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 774
    I am reluctant to install the new update, after all these months I have so many mods that I am afraid the game is going to implode itself if I turn it in.
    I think I do not even remember the vanilla game at this point, so Maybe it´s a good time to install it fresh elsewhere and check.
    (I´m sure i will miss the extended races, classes, spells and feats mods for sure =P )

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,876
    It's only a matter of time until all major mods become compatible with the new update. Heck, Bag of Tricks and SkipIntro already did today. And I am sure the others will follow in the coming days. :)

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,438
    edited August 2020
    Call of the Wild continues to surprise with adding the Psychic class to its roster.

    KamigoroshiSorcererV1ct0r
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,166
    I din't tested TB yet, but undead armies works well with TB?

    My time played on kingmaker

    fmq7vcL.png

  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,330
    So, I've come back to this game after a long hiatus and I'm hooked. I had initially played it just a bit post-launch and had a game-stopping in my savegames that prevented progressing the early plot.

    If folks had a similar bad experience as me, I encourage them to give the game a second chance, and as Julius said above thread, a mage as a main character is a wonderful introduction to the complex gameplay available. That being said I don't think this game is for everyone -- not even for every BG fan.

    I think this game is best played with the mindset that you're going to face a challenging, combat-focused adventure. If you find the early game too hard and want to play on a lower difficulty, I think this game isn't for you. The plot is not especially deep. The quests and roleplaying options are shallow as well. I do think the companion NPC's are well written. They are interesting characters. But they also do not have particularly deep sidequests. Nor is there deep interaction with them (such as in Deadfire). So if you're looking for an RPG that focuses on roleplaying or a compelling story, I would skip this.

    Kingmaker feels not so much the spiritual successor to the BG series as the successor to BG1 itself. Most of the quests are pretty straightforward kill the baddie or fetch the item affairs. The game contains ample wilderness space full of animals and beasts for you to massacre for XP. The game even contains an early game kobold genocide, depending on how you play it. If you were the kind of player who loved BG1 with the SCS mod, I would highly recommend this title.

    As I said above, I do think the game is best enjoyed on its harder difficulties. If you're the kind of player who likes chess or number-crunching strategy games like XCOM or Civilization in addition to combat-focused RPG's, this game delivers. My recommendation is to throw away reservations about save scumming on a first playthrough. Be willing to spend lots of time reading long tooltips and enemy descriptions. The combat and spell system has a depth that rewards exploration.

    bleusteelJuliusBorisovSkatan
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,809
    Yeah, I've had fun in P:K with my mage but my interest in the game slowly dwindled with more chapters passing and not enough appeal in companions and quests (for me). It's a good shot at a fun game, but still not enough (for me at least) to call it a masterpiece-- I hope P:WotR will become a better game and will improve, at the very least on storytelling.

    DinoDinMirandel
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,330
    Yes, I could have said more, but my post felt long already. Despite the big bugs being fixed, the game still suffers from a raw, unpolished feel. The UI is cumbersome. I can see it even turning me off eventually, as the combat grows and grows in complexity. And thus you have to interact in a more complex way with it. And I agree that the quests just don't offer the depth or variety of games like BG2 -- hence the BG1 comparison.

    That being said, as a RPG combat simulator and/or dungeon crawler, it's pretty darned awesome. And I'll just repeat that it seems very much best enjoyed as a tough slough to overcome. The Dark Souls of BG clones. As opposed to an RPG where the focus is on creativity (Original Sin) or on the storyline (Pillars).

    JuliusBorisovPsicoVic
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    I don't know about BG2 actually having more complex quests than Kingmaker. It's true that the majority of the quests in Kingmaker are small and fairly straightforward, but the overarching Chapter quests have lots of little pieces to them and you have to discover what's going. In all fairness, while it was more complex than the first game, BG2's quests were not that complex. The one area that I will say had more complexity were the romances, since those could go bad really easily.

    That's not to say I wouldn't welcome more complexity to the quests and hopefully Wrath of the Righteous does that, but I think BG2 gets credit for being more complex than it really was. This is probably because it was extremely complex for back when it was released, but not so much today.

    It is true that Kingmaker is more in the vein of the first BG, since it's more exploration based, whereas BG2 had a tighter story with less exploring.

    My biggest complaint about the game is that it really loses steam after Pitax in the last chapter. You can clearly tell that's where they ran out of money. Although the optional last chapter is pretty awesome.

    KamigoroshiSkatan
  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,684
    My biggest complaint about the game is that it really loses steam after Pitax in the last chapter. You can clearly tell that's where they ran out of money. Although the optional last chapter is pretty awesome.

    It gets worse at the end? My lord... I really hope their next game will be better. I don't want to end up wasting my money for backing WotR.

  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 774
    The end? the optional ending is arguably the best part of the last third of the game.
    The straightforward one is basically a very hard fay wack-a-mole, there are people that like that kind of succession of challenging combats to prove your prowess, but I appreciate that you have an alternate ending.

    KamigoroshiDrHappyAngryBallpointMan
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,785
    When I first tried Vordakai's Tomb, I had what is possibly my greatest facepalm moment ever in a video game.

    I got almost halfway through the dungeon before my party had to rest. Their buffs were wearing off and they couldn't go any farther (they were stuck at the souleater battle). Then I realized my party couldn't rest because they had no camping supplies! And I couldn't leave the dungeon to rest either. My party was totally screwed.

    So I had to reload from before I entered the tomb, spend a long time traveling all the way back to a city to buy some camping supplies, then spend more time traveling back to Vordakai's Tomb. Then I had to do the first half of the dungeon again!

    Vordakai himself was disappointingly easy, though, considering how tough the previous main story bosses had been (like the Stag Lord and the troll king).

  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,167
    Difficulty spikes are a great problem in Pathfinder.... you go through most of a dungeon without even using a spell then you open a door and your party is wiped in less than a minute.

    Skatan
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,575
    OlvynChuru wrote: »
    When I first tried Vordakai's Tomb, I had what is possibly my greatest facepalm moment ever in a video game.

    I got almost halfway through the dungeon before my party had to rest. Their buffs were wearing off and they couldn't go any farther (they were stuck at the souleater battle). Then I realized my party couldn't rest because they had no camping supplies! And I couldn't leave the dungeon to rest either. My party was totally screwed.

    So I had to reload from before I entered the tomb, spend a long time traveling all the way back to a city to buy some camping supplies, then spend more time traveling back to Vordakai's Tomb. Then I had to do the first half of the dungeon again!

    Vordakai himself was disappointingly easy, though, considering how tough the previous main story bosses had been (like the Stag Lord and the troll king).

    A lot of people have had these kinds of issues , to the point that I believe Owlcat started stashing camping supplies in most large dungeons. For all I know, there were some supplies in Vordakai's tomb.

    I had the same issue my first time through in Trobold. Talked my way in, but then you have to start fighting. Fought about 3/4ths of the dungeon down before I HAD to rest, only to discover I didnt have supplies. Went to leave and... if you talk your way in, there are still 2 or 3 really challenging encounters outside. Probably spent 3 hours reloading to successfully win those fights and camp immediately outside of the dungeon : P

  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,330
    Yeah, one piece of advice on camping supplies and dungeon crawling to generally keep one set for your full party to rest. It can be costly to cart around much more than that. And to save that rest for only in the dungeon. As in, take a rest on the main world map prior to entering any area that seems like it's going to be a lengthy area. And use hunting in topside world for your food otherwise.

    It's even worth it, at times, to leave the area prior to entering the underground area within to do a quick rest, and then take on the dungeon. After having cleared all the topside baddies.

  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,297
    When a game makes camping supplies weigh more than fullplate mail, I cheat without even blinking. Faking the party's weight limit (so I can carry 20 camping supplies and still loot stuffs) and speeding up the map travel was a major change that made the game 'fun' for me personally. I still haven't finished it though, I'm just outside the Pitax chapter, waiting 200 days for that area to open, or something like it. And there's really nothing to do then assigning tasks to NPCs and just wait, which is the main gripe I have with the game.

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,438
    As I was writing the below I realized I was being obtuse but for in depth weight on camping supplies according to PnP rules click below. TL;DR, camping supplies should weigh more if this was PnP.
    I mean, it's not unreasonable? If we assume "Camping supplies and rations" is a tent, rations, and a bedroll.

    A small tent in pathfinder is 20lbs, a bedroll is 5lbs, and a day's worth of rations is 1lb. So each camping supplies should be at least 26lbs while in game each is 10. If we assume 1 big tent like is shown in game then one that can hold four creatures is 40lbs. But since it's a 6 man party you'd go up to a pavilion which is 60lbs.

    So 60lb tent, 6 bedrolls (30lbs) and then rations for 6 people, 6lbs.

    So they should be 96lbs if we're going by PnP. Granted the only thing that would get consumed is the rations but in game rations for 6 is only 60lbs.

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,876
    For those who haven't seen it yet: Call of the Wild has now the Spiritualist base class. Still no archetypes yet. But it's awesome to have more and more of the occult classes in Kingmaker via mods. Gotta love its incorporeal undead companion class feature. :)

    VallmyrPsicoVic
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,438
    I'm already thinking of a necromancer party

    Front Line:

    Undead Bloodline Bloodrager
    Undead Lord Cleric/Holy Vindicator
    Dirge Bard

    Backline:
    School Savant Necromancer Arcanist
    Spiritualist
    Blight Druid

    KamigoroshiPsicoVic
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,330
    Skatan wrote: »
    When a game makes camping supplies weigh more than fullplate mail, I cheat without even blinking. Faking the party's weight limit (so I can carry 20 camping supplies and still loot stuffs) and speeding up the map travel was a major change that made the game 'fun' for me personally. I still haven't finished it though, I'm just outside the Pitax chapter, waiting 200 days for that area to open, or something like it. And there's really nothing to do then assigning tasks to NPCs and just wait, which is the main gripe I have with the game.

    FWIW, I think you probably altered the game's design in a critical way with this choice. I get that the weight of supplies introduced a difficult and sometimes tedious variable into the game. But its inclusion is meant to make you take longer to complete certain quests -- not just roam the world forever with a near infinite ability to replenish your spells and abilities.

    It's no wonder that you have a long wait between chapters when the game was balanced to have player take much, much longer to complete them. I think this kind of move also kills the challenge on a more micro level. Dungeon crawling in the game is supposed to be (and imo very much is) a delicate balance of rationing out powerful but limited spells and abilities across several combats or other encounters.

    BallpointMan
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 602
    Vallmyr wrote: »
    As I was writing the below I realized I was being obtuse but for in depth weight on camping supplies according to PnP rules click below. TL;DR, camping supplies should weigh more if this was PnP.
    I mean, it's not unreasonable? If we assume "Camping supplies and rations" is a tent, rations, and a bedroll.

    A small tent in pathfinder is 20lbs, a bedroll is 5lbs, and a day's worth of rations is 1lb. So each camping supplies should be at least 26lbs while in game each is 10. If we assume 1 big tent like is shown in game then one that can hold four creatures is 40lbs. But since it's a 6 man party you'd go up to a pavilion which is 60lbs.

    So 60lb tent, 6 bedrolls (30lbs) and then rations for 6 people, 6lbs.

    So they should be 96lbs if we're going by PnP. Granted the only thing that would get consumed is the rations but in game rations for 6 is only 60lbs.

    I don't have a problem with camping supplies or the weight. But in your example, a tent is not something you throw away, and you don't need multiple tents. So each additional supply doesn;t require another tent, just another day of food, water etc. That's why having each additional supply also weigh 10lbs is a bit dubious.

  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 774
    edited October 2020
    That wouldn´t be a problem if they have included spells like create water, Heroe´s feast, create food&water, goodberries and stuff like that as in PNP; so I understand is a mechanic to limit the number of rests and loot in a game with time and weight limit. Instead of a "quality of life" mod getting rid of that enters in the realms of cheating, I think.

    As somebody said before in this thread (sorry I do not remember who it was), this game is not meant to be a cool adventure where you romance people and beat enemies with the power of friendship; it´s meant to be the dark souls of the tabletop conversions to videogames.

    Post edited by PsicoVic on
    DinoDin
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