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Exploits, Tricks, and Nonstandard Tactics

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  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    I just added the Martyr's Morningstar part to the level 1 tank section.
    histamiiniCrevsDaak
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Amended the trick with the new information.
    histamiiniGusindaCrevsDaak
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    I have just added the Durlag's Tower Fireball trap trick by @AvidGamerFan to the list on page 2. Apparently you can just lure the Wardens in Durlag's Tower over to the repeating Fireball trap next the anvil and then repeatedly trigger it while invisibly to bomb the Wardens. Even SCS Love can be taken down in this way, by waiting under invisibility until its GOI wears off.
    StummvonBordwehrJuliusBorisov
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,305
    Tresset wrote: »
    Well, here is one you may be interested in:

    For casting Insect Plague and Creeping Doom, I often prefer to target it on one of my own party members. That way the casting will not be disrupted by an enemy suddenly going invisible or similar tactics. Since the spell will even hit invisible hostiles in the area, just put your tank in the middle of the action and target the spell to them. This also helps with large creatures like dragons since the spell has to take extra time arcing up to the creature's head. Since the secondary projectiles move faster than the primary one, it may take effect faster targeting a smaller, closer creature than the really big, far away target you REALLY want to hit.

    You can also cast it from afar by targeting a speedy runner (with haste or boots of speed etc.) and have them run into the fight. The projectile is relatively slow moving so it gives them plenty of time to lead the bugs into the heat of combat where they will divide and hit all nearby enemies. If you time it right you, can even cast the spell before battle and run up to aggro whatever you are going to fight so you can start combat with a swarm of bugs on your side.

    Amazing how many tricks you can come up with for a fairly straightforward spell, hmm?

    It's certainly a nice spell :D. While you may want enemies to see the spell target running in (to group them together so they all get affected), you may not want to provoke them into action. As I normally play solo, the spell target would usually be a summons - say an elemental - which could be the subject of a death spell if leading insects into mages. If the summons disappears before the projectile reaches it, the insects never appear, which can make timing difficult. There is a way round that though. Cast the insect spell at your summons and immediately begin casting pixie dust. The summons runs round in a circle, in order to arrive back close to you as the pixie dust spell completes. While it's not possible to cast insects at an invisible target, the projectile will continue to follow one that becomes invisible. That allows the elemental to lead the insects into enemies - even if they cast true sight, that will come too late to stop the attack.
    BlackravenStummvonBordwehrsemiticgoddessCrevsDaak
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,822
    Blackraven wrote: »
    This works with solo play as well of course. You just have to put the item there first, and then move away and cast.
    For some spells. Others, like Hold Person, require a creature to target. Those aren't going to work with invisible targets, either.
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    jmerry wrote: »
    Blackraven wrote: »
    This works with solo play as well of course. You just have to put the item there first, and then move away and cast.
    For some spells. Others, like Hold Person, require a creature to target. Those aren't going to work with invisible targets, either.

    Hmm not in my install. The picture I uploaded in my previous post has Charname cast Hold Person at a bunch of darts that Baeloth had dropped on the ground.
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,508
    edited December 2020
    Some spells just need a selectable target. Even storage units and dead loot bodies work.
    I stopped using that exploit for the sake of realism.
    Grond0CrevsDaak
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 858
    The principle problem I see with that is that you're dualling out of the casting class, which is generally considered unwise - the Black Pits version gets a free Grandmastery at the cost of their spellcasting progression. Thief with UAI might cost more EXP but would likely create a more powerful character in the end.
    CrevsDaak
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,822
    I just stumbled on to something - an existing trick that just got supercharged by 2.6.
    Dueling Fireshields

    The idea is simple. When up against a mage with a fireshield active, a melee character with the right abilities such as a fighter/mage or a Sun Soul Monk can cast their own fireshield and attack. Even if the attack won't do anything due to protections such as PfMW, the fireshield will still retaliate. And the attacker's fireshield will strike back.

    Back in 2.5, it stopped there. One fireshield shot in each direction. That was still useful for disrupting casting, as any amount of elemental damage could do so reliably.

    In 2.6, it keeps going back and forth, until one party is dead or out of fireshield range. At an extremely high speed. Now it's a tool for outright killing enemies, if you can get the resistance advantage.

    A demonstration:
    q4vikk9nyzeg.jpg
    The start. The first character is a monk with 90% fire resistance (ring of fire resistance, Greater Sun), armed with Belm. The second is a dragon disciple with 127% fire resistance (innate 100%, Fireshield Red) protected by Mirror Image, Stoneskin, and Mantle.

    Attack. Once, maybe twice. The log is so full of events in less than one round that it's 100% fireshield hits and reactions by the time I hit the "badly wounded" autopause. Also, the over-resistance fully healed the sorceress.
    3ad0ola6ugne.jpg
    I was able to retreat the monk and survive. The chain isn't instant, so high resistances do allow time to react.

    The spells in question had a mechanical update in 2.6. The key effect is a contingency; when hit, strike the attacker with the secondary spell to deal damage. In 2.5, that was one of the effects of the primary spell. In 2.6, it has been externalized to an EFF.
    This change was made so that you could cast a fireshield while you had a previous instance active without causing an error message. And it caused this as a side effect.
    StummvonBordwehrPermidion_StarkThacoBellTimbo0o0o0
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,367
    Nothing to do with the EFF.
    It has to do with the damage no longer being truly "instant", as it now uses an AoE projectile (which regardless of flags, sadly cannot be truly instant).
    You can eliminate any back and forth by applying a 1-tick, original caster immunity in the subspell, after the damage.
    StummvonBordwehrTimbo0o0o0
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,822
    Ah, right. The other mechanical change, to eliminate those "failed contingency" messages.

    In your proposal, that would be 1-tick immunity to what? All fireshield subspells? The projectile(s) they use?
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,367
    edited October 2021
    The fireshield subspells. Probably other ways it could be done as well.
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,508
    edited October 2021
    This thing with fireshields keeps popping up all the time, doesn't it?
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,367
    As alternatives to blocking the fireshield subspells, you could instead block the explosion projectile (you would have to add one first), that way all such subspells would only need a single, identical immunity effect, rather than one for each fireshield.

    Another option would be to use a false sequencer, which would result in the damage being credited to the attacker, as if they were damaging themselves by reaching into the fireshield.

    There is an engine bug with cone projectiles in v2.6, though unrelated and uninvolved with the Fireshield mechanics. If you target yourself with a Cone-based spell (Color Spray, Cone of Cold), it will function differently depending on which direction you are currently facing:
    • East, West, WestNorthWest, and EastSouthEast fire in the opposite direction.
    • All other directions fire the cone in 360 degrees (ignoring it's normal arc size).
    Of course, the only way to target yourself with these spells (as opposed to a location) is to cast them through a Contingency or Sequencer.
    StummvonBordwehrGrond0wuke
  • wukewuke Member Posts: 113
    The fire shield trick brings back old memories of fighting that kensai from Tactics wielding, ugh, the acid katana? Even though technically it's not the same.
  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,428
    I recently had the realization that just like you can use Strength or Magic Resistance spells on enemies to lower their strength or MR in cases where they'd normally have higher stats than the spells provide, you might be able to use the Free Action spell to deny an enemy haste. So I tested it out on a Clay Golem in Spellhold, and not only was it unable to haste itself, but I think I broke its AI. Because its haste never took effect, it kept on trying to haste over and over again and was never able to start attacking me. I'm gonna try this out on Firkraag later to see what happens, but I think this might ruin any enemy that you can cast it on if they're programmed to try hasting themselves and can do so infinitely.
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,822
    Probably just the golems; they're the only creatures out there with an infinitely usable haste ability. Red dragons like Firkraag get a one-time "prebuff" of haste, with a force-casting of the wizard spell when they go hostile. If you hit him with Free Action, he won't get hasted but he also won't lose any time. And you won't be able to slow him, which is one of the few disabling effects that works on dragons.
  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,428
    Still denies haste to anyone else, though, so worth considering in some situations where you can easily get the spell off.
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,822
    Also, correction: You can't slow dragons. I spoke without checking; that's one of the clauses on the standard dragon immunity item. The best effects I know for disabling dragons are fear and feeblemind.
  • morpheus562morpheus562 Member Posts: 249
    Insect Plague on dragons does an amazing job of reducing their spellcasting due to the constant interrupts while also having a high chance of causing fear.
  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,428
    I mean, I had Nature's Beauty for Firkraag, so it's not like I needed Free Action, I just wanted to see what happened. Not much, as it turns out, but it works.
  • rambleamblerambleamble Member Posts: 9
    Here's a rare one (inspired by the Cleave mechanic):
    Characters can reach 11-13 APR by animation canceling your attack with Advanced AI turned on. This works on all characters and all classes, giving you more APR than Whirlwind at all times. Mages be buckling in fear from being hit 13 times a round by Carsomyr ;)

    How do you do it?
    Adv AI needs to be turned on (or any script that uses AttackOneRound). Be Hasted or Improve Hasted (I don't think the animations are any faster between the two), 0 Speed Factor (from weapons, proficiencies, class specials) and optionally +2 Luck to remove the Speed Factor initiative penalties (makes the attacks more consistent).

    When you land or would land an attack, animation cancel by double-clicking their weapon quickslot (or give the group stop command). The AI script will reset their round and begin to attack again. Repeat. You need to be good at timing this to reach high APR.
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