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Baldur's Gate III released into Early Access

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  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,009
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    I think the Drow subdivisions are not a mechanical/rule ones, but a backstory/origin ones. They allow you to differentiate between Underdark Lolth-worshipping classic drows and "surface" drows because there´s no specific background for that.

    That would be a good move, surface drow are far more interesting at this point than another one of the countless evil lolth drow.
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    I think the Drow subdivisions are not a mechanical/rule ones, but a backstory/origin ones. They allow you to differentiate between Underdark Lolth-worshipping classic drows and "surface" drows because there´s no specific background for that.

    Yeah I get that. I just assumed if it's mentioned, it'll matter at least at some point in the game, likely when meeting a drow faction. But at that point I'm thinking how would they know if you're one or the other, but through your own roleplay?

    I feel like announcing yourself a worshipper of Elistraee to be a VERY bad move around "normal" Drow.

  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,553
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    I was unaware of those Tiefling sub-"races", and while I find the concept interesting I'm dissapointed all of them are Devil bloodlines, and high-profile ones at that.

    Also unsure why the split between Drow was necessary.

    But good to see that line-up! Looking forward to seeing more down the line.

    The Tiefling sub-race is lifted pretty much directly from one of the more recent source books. I want to say Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes or something like that.

    Basically - Tieflings got a set of expanded subraces, a variant for the ruler from each level of the 9 Hells.


    The Zariel one is a bit noteworthy because, unless I'm misremembering - she is actually a fallen angel (Solar? Something) that is now a ruler of Avernus. So I guess Tieflings that have her subrace heritage are... quasi celestial? I'm not really sure on how that works : P

    JuliusBorisovPsicoVic
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,208
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    I was unaware of those Tiefling sub-"races", and while I find the concept interesting I'm dissapointed all of them are Devil bloodlines, and high-profile ones at that.

    Also unsure why the split between Drow was necessary.

    But good to see that line-up! Looking forward to seeing more down the line.
    Yeah I was a bit surprised they added wood elf ahead of moon elf (or whatever its 5e equivalent is) for elf subraces. But overall, character creation does look pretty great.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,601
    No monks, no Half Orcs, no druids? Oof. I know it's early access, so they will probably be added later. At least, I hope so.

    Sure, I do hope so as well. But the nature of the update is probably why we haven't seen Dragonborn or Half-Orcs yet. They scanned real faces, so obviously, the "human" / aka the kith, or the civilized races (PoE style) races would be easier to create and animate for cutscenes. Half-Orcs have big teeth, so facial animations might struggle a bit with clipping and such. Dragonborn. Where can they find a Dragonborn for a shot? ;)

    PsicoVicWarChiefZekeSjerrie
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 749
    edited October 2020
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    I think the Drow subdivisions are not a mechanical/rule ones, but a backstory/origin ones. They allow you to differentiate between Underdark Lolth-worshipping classic drows and "surface" drows because there´s no specific background for that.

    Yeah I get that. I just assumed if it's mentioned, it'll matter at least at some point in the game, likely when meeting a drow faction. But at that point I'm thinking how would they know if you're one or the other, but through your own roleplay?

    Good point. Simply because of your accent and/or your clothes? At least that´s what I do.

    ED: Also in the BG3´s lands lolth-sworn drows have red eyes instead of the pale, weird-coloured standard ones.
    "Lolth-Sworn Drow
    Raised by Lolth’s cult in the city of Menzoberranzan, these drow extol the virtues of their corrupt and merciless goddess. Lolth marks her followers with bright red eyes so the Underdark will learn to fear drow on sight"

    JuliusBorisovBallpointManSjerrie
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 749
    edited October 2020
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    I was unaware of those Tiefling sub-"races", and while I find the concept interesting I'm dissapointed all of them are Devil bloodlines, and high-profile ones at that.

    Also unsure why the split between Drow was necessary.

    But good to see that line-up! Looking forward to seeing more down the line.
    Yeah I was a bit surprised they added wood elf ahead of moon elf (or whatever its 5e equivalent is) for elf subraces. But overall, character creation does look pretty great.

    Moon/Sun elves are merged and the´re mechanically High elves in 5e so technically they´re already included in the game.

  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,208
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    I was unaware of those Tiefling sub-"races", and while I find the concept interesting I'm dissapointed all of them are Devil bloodlines, and high-profile ones at that.

    Also unsure why the split between Drow was necessary.

    But good to see that line-up! Looking forward to seeing more down the line.
    Yeah I was a bit surprised they added wood elf ahead of moon elf (or whatever its 5e equivalent is) for elf subraces. But overall, character creation does look pretty great.

    Moon/Sun elves are merged and the´re mechanically High elves in 5e so technically they´re already included in the game.
    Wow. That is quite shocking. What happens to the TONS of lore from before where the differences between the two were significant and historically meaningful, and even featured in and fundamental to numerous stories? All of that just dismissed with the wave of a hand in 5e?

    ThacoBell
  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,656
    kanisatha wrote: »
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    I was unaware of those Tiefling sub-"races", and while I find the concept interesting I'm dissapointed all of them are Devil bloodlines, and high-profile ones at that.

    Also unsure why the split between Drow was necessary.

    But good to see that line-up! Looking forward to seeing more down the line.
    Yeah I was a bit surprised they added wood elf ahead of moon elf (or whatever its 5e equivalent is) for elf subraces. But overall, character creation does look pretty great.

    Moon/Sun elves are merged and the´re mechanically High elves in 5e so technically they´re already included in the game.
    Wow. That is quite shocking. What happens to the TONS of lore from before where the differences between the two were significant and historically meaningful, and even featured in and fundamental to numerous stories? All of that just dismissed with the wave of a hand in 5e?

    Yeah, it's exactly those things made me lost interest in FR lore with the coming of 4e...

    WarChiefZekeSjerrie
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,212
    If you choose a class with access to magic, you’ll be able to select from a number of Cantrips

    Rangers in 5E have access to magic but don't normally get cantrips (this might change in Tasha's). So I wonder if this also applies to them? If so its definitely a boost to the class.

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,754
    Wait, I am slightly confused?

    Is there no feature tweaking in BG3? Like I can't make a custom character that looks like me?

    150 faces may seem like a lot, but it is only roughly 12 faces per sex and race (and that's putting elves & drow together).

    If there is no feature tweaking, it really is a giant step back for 3d RPGs

    WarChiefZekeBallpointManThacoBellkanisatha
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,553
    deltago wrote: »
    Wait, I am slightly confused?

    Is there no feature tweaking in BG3? Like I can't make a custom character that looks like me?

    150 faces may seem like a lot, but it is only roughly 12 faces per sex and race (and that's putting elves & drow together).

    If there is no feature tweaking, it really is a giant step back for 3d RPGs

    "PROCESS


    Our character creation features photorealistic fantasy races, based on 3D scans of actors and models (blemishes and all), selected because their features roughly resembled the direction for each race in the game, as well of course for diversity and variety in the human-like races. Our team spent much of pre-production carefully selecting, scanning, and moulding these scans, to become the base heads for character creation. Launched into Early Access is a total of 150 heads to pick from, across the 16 races & subcraces."

    The wording isnt clear (at all). Calling them "Base heads for character creation" does make me think there will be feature tweaking... but that's a naked guess. it is an industry norm, and I would be shocked (and disappointed) if they didnt include it for some reason.

    WarChiefZeke
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,754
    deltago wrote: »
    Wait, I am slightly confused?

    Is there no feature tweaking in BG3? Like I can't make a custom character that looks like me?

    150 faces may seem like a lot, but it is only roughly 12 faces per sex and race (and that's putting elves & drow together).

    If there is no feature tweaking, it really is a giant step back for 3d RPGs

    "PROCESS


    Our character creation features photorealistic fantasy races, based on 3D scans of actors and models (blemishes and all), selected because their features roughly resembled the direction for each race in the game, as well of course for diversity and variety in the human-like races. Our team spent much of pre-production carefully selecting, scanning, and moulding these scans, to become the base heads for character creation. Launched into Early Access is a total of 150 heads to pick from, across the 16 races & subcraces."

    The wording isnt clear (at all). Calling them "Base heads for character creation" does make me think there will be feature tweaking... but that's a naked guess. it is an industry norm, and I would be shocked (and disappointed) if they didnt include it for some reason.

    Well I am guessing you'll still be able to choose hairstyle/colour and maybe facial hair and maybe eye colour. That's what I am thinking 'base' means.

    And I missed the ethnicity part as well. With the 12 faces per, you're dividing that up between different skin tones you're basically left with 2 or 3 per group (Caucasian, Asian, African, Hispanic, Middle-Eastern or the the 6 on the Fitzpatrick Scale).

    But this is no different than having a group of portraits to choose from, except slightly worse as you can't import a face that fits who you picture your character to be better.

    ThacoBell
  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,203
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    I was unaware of those Tiefling sub-"races", and while I find the concept interesting I'm dissapointed all of them are Devil bloodlines, and high-profile ones at that.

    Also unsure why the split between Drow was necessary.

    But good to see that line-up! Looking forward to seeing more down the line.

    The Tiefling sub-race is lifted pretty much directly from one of the more recent source books. I want to say Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes or something like that.

    Basically - Tieflings got a set of expanded subraces, a variant for the ruler from each level of the 9 Hells.


    The Zariel one is a bit noteworthy because, unless I'm misremembering - she is actually a fallen angel (Solar? Something) that is now a ruler of Avernus. So I guess Tieflings that have her subrace heritage are... quasi celestial? I'm not really sure on how that works : P

    Indeed Zariel used to be a Solar, but has been an archdevil for who knows how long now and I doubt anything pure and holy remains of her, mechanically. My point was mainly about all 3 Tiefling bloodlines being devils, since it was my understanding that the Tieflings ancestor didn't have to be a devil specifically. Demons, Yugoloths, any of the fiends would do.

  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,203
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    I was unaware of those Tiefling sub-"races", and while I find the concept interesting I'm dissapointed all of them are Devil bloodlines, and high-profile ones at that.

    Also unsure why the split between Drow was necessary.

    But good to see that line-up! Looking forward to seeing more down the line.
    Yeah I was a bit surprised they added wood elf ahead of moon elf (or whatever its 5e equivalent is) for elf subraces. But overall, character creation does look pretty great.

    Moon/Sun elves are merged and the´re mechanically High elves in 5e so technically they´re already included in the game.

    Moon elves and Sun elves are most definitely still a thing, at least in the Forgotten Realms.

    kanisatha
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,208
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    I was unaware of those Tiefling sub-"races", and while I find the concept interesting I'm dissapointed all of them are Devil bloodlines, and high-profile ones at that.

    Also unsure why the split between Drow was necessary.

    But good to see that line-up! Looking forward to seeing more down the line.
    Yeah I was a bit surprised they added wood elf ahead of moon elf (or whatever its 5e equivalent is) for elf subraces. But overall, character creation does look pretty great.

    Moon/Sun elves are merged and the´re mechanically High elves in 5e so technically they´re already included in the game.

    Moon elves and Sun elves are most definitely still a thing, at least in the Forgotten Realms.

    Oh I do hope so. Moon/silver elf is my most favored race to play as in D&D. More than 50% of my PCs over more 25 years have been that race.

    Sjerrie
  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,203
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    I was unaware of those Tiefling sub-"races", and while I find the concept interesting I'm dissapointed all of them are Devil bloodlines, and high-profile ones at that.

    Also unsure why the split between Drow was necessary.

    But good to see that line-up! Looking forward to seeing more down the line.
    Yeah I was a bit surprised they added wood elf ahead of moon elf (or whatever its 5e equivalent is) for elf subraces. But overall, character creation does look pretty great.

    Moon/Sun elves are merged and the´re mechanically High elves in 5e so technically they´re already included in the game.

    Moon elves and Sun elves are most definitely still a thing, at least in the Forgotten Realms.

    Oh I do hope so. Moon/silver elf is my most favored race to play as in D&D. More than 50% of my PCs over more 25 years have been that race.

    TBF, them being a thing in the Realms doesn't necessarily guarantee them being in BG3, though imo it wouldn't make sense to not have them, and I'd be as disappointed as you.

    kanisatha
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 749
    edited October 2020
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    I was unaware of those Tiefling sub-"races", and while I find the concept interesting I'm dissapointed all of them are Devil bloodlines, and high-profile ones at that.

    Also unsure why the split between Drow was necessary.

    But good to see that line-up! Looking forward to seeing more down the line.
    Yeah I was a bit surprised they added wood elf ahead of moon elf (or whatever its 5e equivalent is) for elf subraces. But overall, character creation does look pretty great.

    Moon/Sun elves are merged and the´re mechanically High elves in 5e so technically they´re already included in the game.

    Moon elves and Sun elves are most definitely still a thing, at least in the Forgotten Realms.

    Oh, they are a thing, but they all have the label "high elves" in your character sheet, the same as a blonde caucasian savage from the Spine of the world and a dark-skinned jungle huntress of Chult are labelled as "human" mechanically in the game. Same stats.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,212
    edited October 2020
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    I was unaware of those Tiefling sub-"races", and while I find the concept interesting I'm dissapointed all of them are Devil bloodlines, and high-profile ones at that.

    Also unsure why the split between Drow was necessary.

    But good to see that line-up! Looking forward to seeing more down the line.

    The Tiefling sub-race is lifted pretty much directly from one of the more recent source books. I want to say Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes or something like that.

    Basically - Tieflings got a set of expanded subraces, a variant for the ruler from each level of the 9 Hells.


    The Zariel one is a bit noteworthy because, unless I'm misremembering - she is actually a fallen angel (Solar? Something) that is now a ruler of Avernus. So I guess Tieflings that have her subrace heritage are... quasi celestial? I'm not really sure on how that works : P

    Indeed Zariel used to be a Solar, but has been an archdevil for who knows how long now and I doubt anything pure and holy remains of her, mechanically. My point was mainly about all 3 Tiefling bloodlines being devils, since it was my understanding that the Tieflings ancestor didn't have to be a devil specifically. Demons, Yugoloths, any of the fiends would do.

    Per the 5E Players Handbook, tieflings in 5e have an infernal bloodline (aka from the Nine Hells). This is a change from earlier editions (that allowed more flexibility).

    Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes has Zariel tieflings that players can use. I imagine that is where they drew their inspiration.

    Zariel was once in control of the Nine Hells and then Bel took over. Then Zariel took back control. So she's had at least centuries to uhh ... do what is necessary for tieflings to appear.

  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,553
    deltago wrote: »
    deltago wrote: »
    Wait, I am slightly confused?

    Is there no feature tweaking in BG3? Like I can't make a custom character that looks like me?

    150 faces may seem like a lot, but it is only roughly 12 faces per sex and race (and that's putting elves & drow together).

    If there is no feature tweaking, it really is a giant step back for 3d RPGs

    "PROCESS


    Our character creation features photorealistic fantasy races, based on 3D scans of actors and models (blemishes and all), selected because their features roughly resembled the direction for each race in the game, as well of course for diversity and variety in the human-like races. Our team spent much of pre-production carefully selecting, scanning, and moulding these scans, to become the base heads for character creation. Launched into Early Access is a total of 150 heads to pick from, across the 16 races & subcraces."

    The wording isnt clear (at all). Calling them "Base heads for character creation" does make me think there will be feature tweaking... but that's a naked guess. it is an industry norm, and I would be shocked (and disappointed) if they didnt include it for some reason.

    Well I am guessing you'll still be able to choose hairstyle/colour and maybe facial hair and maybe eye colour. That's what I am thinking 'base' means.

    And I missed the ethnicity part as well. With the 12 faces per, you're dividing that up between different skin tones you're basically left with 2 or 3 per group (Caucasian, Asian, African, Hispanic, Middle-Eastern or the the 6 on the Fitzpatrick Scale).

    But this is no different than having a group of portraits to choose from, except slightly worse as you can't import a face that fits who you picture your character to be better.

    This is very possible. I still tend to believe they'll have some feature tweaking, but you may be right about how much is there.

    As a side note - I booted up the very first gameplay reveal livestream Sven did back in February because I remembered a brief moment of character building. It was pretty quick, and we know it is feature incomplete - but I did not see anything that led me to believe you could adjust the length of your character's nose or other head features.

  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,214
    The Zariel one is a bit noteworthy because, unless I'm misremembering - she is actually a fallen angel (Solar? Something) that is now a ruler of Avernus. So I guess Tieflings that have her subrace heritage are... quasi celestial? I'm not really sure on how that works : P

    Lots of the Archdevils are fallen angels, actually. Asmodeus, Mephistopheles, Belial and Dispater are part of the original cadre of fallen angels that became the first Baatezu. (I think Geryon and Mammon may have been part of the group too, but I'm not sure.) Baalzebul is more recent (although not as recent as Zariel), and Mephistopheles, Belial and Dispater still consider him an "interloper".

    I was a bit disappointed to see that classes like Druid, Barbarian and Paladin aren't there, but I suppose they'll be there for the official release. I thought the introduction of the Seldarine drow was quite an interesting change, but welcome. I'm also disappointed that tieflings must all be of a devilish heritage; I prefer the old system where tieflings could be of any fiendish heritage. More flexibility for character backstory and roleplaying that way.

    Sjerrie
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,208
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    I was unaware of those Tiefling sub-"races", and while I find the concept interesting I'm dissapointed all of them are Devil bloodlines, and high-profile ones at that.

    Also unsure why the split between Drow was necessary.

    But good to see that line-up! Looking forward to seeing more down the line.
    Yeah I was a bit surprised they added wood elf ahead of moon elf (or whatever its 5e equivalent is) for elf subraces. But overall, character creation does look pretty great.

    Moon/Sun elves are merged and the´re mechanically High elves in 5e so technically they´re already included in the game.

    Moon elves and Sun elves are most definitely still a thing, at least in the Forgotten Realms.

    Oh I do hope so. Moon/silver elf is my most favored race to play as in D&D. More than 50% of my PCs over more 25 years have been that race.

    TBF, them being a thing in the Realms doesn't necessarily guarantee them being in BG3, though imo it wouldn't make sense to not have them, and I'd be as disappointed as you.
    Yeah having looked into this further, sun and moon elf subraces still exist but only for story/roleplaying. As @PsicoVic said, mechanically they are the same and as such have been lumped in together under the label of "high" elf in the 5e FRAG. Still, it would be nice if we could specify "sun" or "moon" under "high," specifically for roleplaying purposes.

    Sjerrie
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,553
    byrne20 wrote: »
    Gotta say some of these pictures look phenomenal. Loving the female drow and the detail on her hair is great 😊


    ubtewzdn21d2.png
    3dc06qp4iiph.png
    inu096j5he74.png

    Those are stunningly gorgeous. Considering the cinematic feel of the conversations in the game, it's nice knowing that the character models look this good.

    And not just the Origin characters, but player made ones at that.

    Adam_en_tiumbyrne20
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    Zaxares wrote: »
    I'm also disappointed that tieflings must all be of a devilish heritage; I prefer the old system where tieflings could be of any fiendish heritage. More flexibility for character backstory and roleplaying that way.

    Another consequence of 4th Edition, unfortunately. They made all tieflings descended from Asmodeus then. 5th edition has at least added back some variety in descendancy with that one book mentioned but it's still not the same. I believe they're also still all they're own race of people now and not just humans/other races with a bit of bad blood surfacing. Ie tieflings will always have tiefling children rather than go back to being humans in the next generation.

    byrne20 wrote: »
    Gotta say some of these pictures look phenomenal. Loving the female drow and the detail on her hair is great 😊


    ubtewzdn21d2.png
    3dc06qp4iiph.png
    inu096j5he74.png

    They really do look great. I'm pretty sure making black characters actually look like black people is vidya game illegal though

    I'm mostly okay with just picking faces, though it of course will limit the looks available significantly (and it probably won't hit the races equally, humans for example are likely to have more appearances alloted to them than less popular races like halflings and gnomes), as long as hair and beard remain selectable (no reason to assume they wouldn't be, at least for hair, but I want to draw the line). Preferably also cosmetics like tattoos, make-up, scars and grimases if such are available. It's always awful when a game has like one decent face because all the rest is covered in awful tattoos or face paint, edgy scarring, or stupid scowls.

    Sjerriebyrne20BallpointManDinoDin
  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,203
    edited October 2020
    scriver wrote: »
    byrne20 wrote: »
    Gotta say some of these pictures look phenomenal. Loving the female drow and the detail on her hair is great 😊

    inu096j5he74.png

    They really do look great. I'm pretty sure making black characters actually look like black people is vidya game illegal though

    Honestly, if this one is generated, it'll be the first one I've ever seen to look even remotely apppropriate. Either that or I suck at sliders.

  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 499
    @BallpointMan yeah I am honestly impressed at the visual quality on display in those screens. So impressive.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,009
    @Dunski I agree with a good chunk of what you just said, buuuuuuut...
    "Might as well have a playable gnoll."

    This would honestly double my esteem for the game. I know, not a high bar, but give me some unusual races to play for once! Everything playable is always vaguely mammalian and human shaped. Give me Gnolls, Kobolds, those sweet mantis dudes. ANYTHING.

    Sjerrie
  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,203
    @ThacoBell I've been dreaming of Kenku lately.

    Also still hoping for the other planetouched though (Genasi, Aasimar...)

    ThacoBellZaxares
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