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The Adventurer's Lounge: Guidance and Support for No Reload Challengers- Newbie or Veteran

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  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,716
    edited October 2020
    @Wise_Grimwald: Viconia and Dorn will not leave if your reputation is 18 or under. As long as you don't gain reputation, they will stay. Dorn will take off another 2 reputation, giving you more wiggle room if you have both.

    Even then, I believe you can dodge this issue simply by kicking them out of the party when you hit 19-20 reputation and then immediately re-recruiting them. Your reputation is capped at 20, so once you got them back in the party, you'd be down to 18 again:

    1. Have 20 reputation, then recruit Viconia: 20-2=18 reputation
    2. Do good deed with Viconia: 18+1=19 reputation
    3. Kick out Viconia: 19+2 reputation, capped at 20
    4. Recruit Viconia: 20-2=18 reputation

    Wise_GrimwaldStummvonBordwehrAerakarJuliusBorisov
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 1,402
    There's a problem with that: how are you re-recruiting Viconia with your reputation over 18?

    Viconia's dialogue options when removed from the party (pre-SoD):

    KickedOut=0, not past the breaking point: Set KickedOut to 1, Viconia stays there.
    KickedOut=0, past the breaking point: Set KickedOut to 1, Viconia leaves forever.
    KickedOut=1, not past the breaking point: You can invite her back in, or not.
    KickedOut=1, past the breaking point: No dialogue. She won't even talk to you.

    There's no way to get her back without first lowering your reputation some. Really, if you want to maintain a mixed good/evil party, letting your reputation ever cross either threshold that convinces characters to leave is a very bad idea.

    With Dorn ... actually, Dorn is weirder. For him, there are reputation checks in that outside-party dialogue as well as happiness checks. He won't automatically leave at high rep if he's wearing the helm of opposite alignment, but he also might not rejoin. He doesn't leave forever in pre-SoD BGEE, at least.

    For a small reputation loss when you're well liked, there's always getting caught stealing. Break into a watched chest, stick around to meet the guards. Talking to them loses you one point of reputation, killing them loses you more - but still not as much as killing an innocent would.

    StummvonBordwehrsemiticgoddessAerakarJuliusBorisov
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,010
    edited October 2020
    I think that by applying the information that both of you have given me, I might have worked out a solution. Please comment if I am wrong. If when reputation gets to 19, I kick out Viconia, my reputation goes up to 20. I can then kill am innocent and it drops to 10. At that stage, not much danger of falling.
    I can then do some good things to get reputation up again and when it is safe to do so, I can again recruit her. (Except by that time I will probably want Dorn in preference to Viconia.

    I only have one spare NPC slot and also only one helm of opposite alignment.

    Having thought about it, reducing reputation before SoD would have been easier. If I am going to have an evil character in the party in SoD, I should plan ahead in BG1.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,806
    edited October 2020
    My memory is that the solution @semiticgod suggests (which has been around since soon after the game's release) does work with Viconia - I've used it multiple times (though probably not in BGEE/SoD). I assume that gets round the problem @jmerry refers to by acting too quickly for scripts to fire - as soon as your reputation hits 19 you kick her out and then re-recruit her.

    semiticgoddessWise_GrimwaldJuliusBorisov
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,606
    edited October 2020
    You can get round the problem of Viconia leaving by installing the 'Happy Patch' from the Tweaks Anthology. I'm currently using it so I can have Edwin and Kagain in my party with my Cavalier. I've got it set so they grumble (a lot!) but never leave. https://gibberlings3.github.io/Documentation/readmes/readme-cdtweaks.html

    The first time I played SoD I wasn't using the patch and had Viconia in my party. She kept leaving and I kept taking her back. This seemed to be working fine until she walked out on me forever just as I was about to descend into Hell to fight Belhifet. Talk about timing. I had to do the battle with no cleric.

    Wise_GrimwaldStummvonBordwehrsemiticgoddess
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,010
    @Permidion_Stark That would be interesting. I am quite deliberately playing an unmodded game at the moment so the Happy patch is unavailable. I have had it installed in other runs and it is indeed convenient.
    In my current game I don't really need another cleric so I will use Jaheira when I meet her. It will boost the experience of us all only having a party of 5 for a while. :)

    Permidion_StarkStummvonBordwehr
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,010
    edited October 2020
    I am having some problems with bugs in my current SoD game.

    I think that I could sort them out myself if I knew the area codes. It is the areas between the standard areas I am particularly interested in. They don't appear to be firing properly.

    Is there a list of area codes anywhere? They do not appear to be listed in the rakingclaw walkthrough by Enilwyn and Mike's RPG Centre doesn't appear to have them either.

    EDIT

    However this one does. :)

    https://lilura1.blogspot.com/2016/04/Siege-of-Dragonspear-Walkthrough-Part-VI.html

    Grond0Aerakar
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,716
    @jessejmc: Very brilliant work. I thought the Nymph's Cloak wouldn't work with this area; I tried charming someone and luring them to the hobgoblins at some point but thought it was impossible when crusaders spontaneously started going hostile--including, I thought, folks I had already charmed. I didn't realize there was that loophole.

    Clever!

    Grond0JuliusBorisov
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,010
    edited November 2020
    I'm wondering why it is impossible to have a half-orc mage given the plethora of half-orc mage images on the net. Is it just because the graphics haven't been done for them or perhaps because with a max intelligeence of 16 the devs thought that nobody would want to run one? I would. I'd really like to run a party of six half-orcs and arcane magic seems to be the only option missing.

    What I'm thinking of doing is make a human mage, change her into a half-orc in Keeper and change the appearance to mage female half-orc. Would there be any problems if I did that?

    Post edited by Wise_Grimwald on
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,716
    I've been unable to get charmed critters to move from one area to another by ordering them to attack or cast a spell on a party member. This was a key component of several no-reload strategies. Has anyone else had trouble getting charmed characters to move between areas recently?

  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,441
    edited December 2020
    nvm

    Post edited by Blackraven on
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,010
    In SoD there is an area where magic doesn't work. I am wondering if oil of fiery burning, potions of explosions and potions of fire protection work there as I would like to suss out a new strategy there.

  • EnuhalEnuhal Member Posts: 589
    @Wise_Grimwald I'm not 100% sure about these potions, but I can confirm that necklaces of missles and wands of fire work there (so I would suspect that the same is true for potions of explosions, as they are very similiar). Might be that fire protection potions are treated differently, though.

    StummvonBordwehrAerakarWise_Grimwaldsemiticgoddess
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,010
    Enuhal wrote: »
    @Wise_Grimwald I'm not 100% sure about these potions, but I can confirm that necklaces of missles and wands of fire work there (so I would suspect that the same is true for potions of explosions, as they are very similiar). Might be that fire protection potions are treated differently, though.

    I wasn't expecting tthe wands to work, so that's good to hear. I'll send someone with items to protect from fire out first and then bombard him with fire when I think the hidden enemies are close to him. Int he past I haven't tried to fight them. Perhaps this strategy will work better.

    Enuhal
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,010
    edited December 2020
    I have killed the basilisk and now have the claw [SoD] however due to having Jaheira in the party I have the cure for the Uncommon Cold and nobody is interested in my Basilisk Claw! :( Should I now just drop it or could it be useful in the future?

    I'm not exactly familiar with SoD.

  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,010
    semiticgod wrote: »
    @Wise_Grimwald: The claw is only needed to get the cure from the druid in the same area. You can drop the claw and just give the cure to the priestess of Ilmater back at the camp.

    The dead magic area applies a repeating dispel magic effect and 100% spell failure on all party members--and perhaps on enemies, so while all wands and scrolls should still work, their effects will be dispelled within 6 seconds or less. A Stoneskin scroll or Potion of Invisibility may still be worth using to avoid a deadly backstab, even if it will only last a brief moment before being dispelled. Undispellable effects might still work, though I don't know of any useful ones outside of mods.

    I've avoided the area in almost all my runs, even my first blind run--when I saw stuff being dispelled, I knew my cleric/illusionist would be easy pickings.

    Thanks.

    Sadly I got killed before I got there. :'(

    StummvonBordwehr
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,716
    I got charmed in a solo run but the game didn't end. I don't know of any mod I have installed that makes solo charms nonfatal--does anyone know why I didn't die? If this is unintended behavior, I'm considering the run over. My WeiDU log is attached.

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,208
    @semiticgoddess
    It doesn't trigger a game over in areas that normally allow Player1 to die without triggering a game over.
    Otherwise, the STATE_CHARMED flag alone triggers a game over.

    semiticgoddessStummvonBordwehr
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,716
    @kjeron: What areas are those? I got charmed by Nimbul in Nashkel.

    Has no one ever lost a solo run to Nimbul's charm?

    I wasn't aware there were any areas that allowed Player1 to die without ending the game.

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,208
    @semiticgoddess
    Vanilla BG1EE and BG2EE don't have any - it's exclusive to IWDEE and The Black Pits.
    It gets set as part of the "Death Cam" component of CDTWEAKS #3300 on all areas.

    I would say run terminated, as that's not the intended purpose of the component.

    The component has to add script checks to trigger a game over, but fails to consider the solo-charm condition, only checking Player1 for STATE_REALLY_DEAD.

    semiticgoddessGrond0BlackravenStummvonBordwehr
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,441
    I got charmed in a solo run but the game didn't end. I don't know of any mod I have installed that makes solo charms nonfatal--does anyone know why I didn't die? If this is unintended behavior, I'm considering the run over. My WeiDU log is attached.

    This looks a lot like @jessejmc's case from last year: CDTweaks' Death Cam, which you have installed as well. Did your character have any summons active at the time that could still win you the battle?

    Grond0StummvonBordwehr
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,716
    @Blackraven: Yup. Skeleton warriors. I wondered if that had something to do with it.

    Blackraven
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,716
    So, I was contemplating a Transmuter run and I just had a thought for surviving the final battle with Melissan in Ascension.

    Cast Maze on Charname.

    It lasts for 4d4 rounds if they have 9-11 INT (still enough to use scrolls), and if you lower it via INT drain from a mind flayer in the party, it can last 2d4 turns. Ten rounds for an on-self Maze is a lot of time for the rest of the party to handle things, and if you pre-cast Lower Resistance, the Robe of Vecna can let you do it instantly with no 10% chance of MR blocking it. Even 17 INT will still get you 2d4 rounds, and if you have more than one mage on hand or thief with UAI, you can always have another person on hand to re-cast it if Charname reappears too early.

    Thoughts?

    StummvonBordwehrGrond0Wise_Grimwald
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,441
    So, I was contemplating a Transmuter run and I just had a thought for surviving the final battle with Melissan in Ascension.

    Cast Maze on Charname.

    It lasts for 4d4 rounds if they have 9-11 INT (still enough to use scrolls), and if you lower it via INT drain from a mind flayer in the party, it can last 2d4 turns. Ten rounds for an on-self Maze is a lot of time for the rest of the party to handle things, and if you pre-cast Lower Resistance, the Robe of Vecna can let you do it instantly with no 10% chance of MR blocking it. Even 17 INT will still get you 2d4 rounds, and if you have more than one mage on hand or thief with UAI, you can always have another person on hand to re-cast it if Charname reappears too early.

    Thoughts?

    Interesting thought, I read a post on reddit by someone who uses maze defensively like this (in Chain Contingencies). While it could work, it would kind of defeat the purpose of no-reloading a Transmuter to me if you have others doing the hard work while Charname is safely Mazed away. But I do understand that in particularly challenging runs one plays with more of an anything goes mentality.

    Wise_Grimwald
  • EnuhalEnuhal Member Posts: 589
    Interesting. If you want an even longer duration, you could experiment with a cursed scroll of stupidity (though you'd need a way to get rid of the effects once the Bhaalspawn reappears). If you want a guaranteed duration, a shaman in the party might be able to help with Ether Gate (always 5 rounds). I think all of these options should be experimented with before being attempted in an actual run though - from just reading it, some of these things seem a bit risky to me.

    Wise_Grimwald
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