The entire wood through the heart never made sense in any vampire mythology. They are dead, they don't have blood flowing through their veins. The heart isn't beating or pumping anything...
It's more of a symbolic act than anything, similar to the vampire's weaknesses like an aversion to mirrors or sunlight. In Ravenloft, different racial vampires require different stakes to be killed permanently. A dwarven vampire, for instance, needs to be impaled by a stalagmite or a similar stone stake for it to work.
The idea of "killing" something that's already dead is fundamentally paradoxical anyway.
You could bring up the "heart doesn't even pump blood" issue for pretty much anything you can do to it. None of it is necessary for the vampire to live, because the vampire is not supposed to really be living at all.
Despite this, it walks, it talks, it does all the things that living people do. What we call "Undeath" really resembles life much more than death. So something's gotta be able to make it stop walking/talking/etc. A stake through the heart makes as much sense as anything.
There was some quirky vampire anime I watched once. About a girl from a family of vampires, but she had some genetic deformity or something, so she was basically a reverse vampire. Could only really exist in the sunlight. Had way too much blood in her resulting in comedic nosebleeds. Loved garlic. So on and so forth. She was kind of disconnected from her own family and culture because they literally just couldn't see eachother. She goes into the coffin when they come out.
That was a plot point towards the end. The stake through the heart was just some nonsense rumor that caught on. It didn't really do anything. I think some vampire hunter discovered that at an unfortunate moment. It was a persistent theme that the public understanding of vampires didn't always match the reality. Like vampires have strong noses, which makes them have trouble with aromatic foods like garlic, but it doesn't actually hurt them or anything.
The entire wood through the heart never made sense in any vampire mythology. They are dead, they don't have blood flowing through their veins. The heart isn't beating or pumping anything...
I believe this has something to do with the real life origins of the myth of undead. In pre-scientific societies, people often couldn't tell unconsciousness and especially coma from death. There were very frightening experiences where the "dead" would rise suddenly and start rampaging. Imagine a very sick, frightened, person who awakens from a coma in a coffin that is about to be sealed, or sometimes they were able to break out of it. Imagine how such a sick person might look to the superstitious survivors, and they were probably delirious. People thought they were zombies, vampires, etc.
So, the custom arose in some places of driving a stake through the heart of the dead to make sure they stayed dead. They used wood because that's what was widely available.
This grim real-life origin of the legends got carried over into the later nineteenth century gothic horror writings, and from there into the collective lore of the culture.
Everything I've just said needs citations, and I'm basing it off of "stuff I've read about" but can't cite my sources, so take it with a grain of salt.
The idea of "killing" something that's already dead is fundamentally paradoxical anyway.
You could bring up the "heart doesn't even pump blood" issue for pretty much anything you can do to it. None of it is necessary for the vampire to live, because the vampire is not supposed to really be living at all.
Despite this, it walks, it talks, it does all the things that living people do. What we call "Undeath" really resembles life much more than death. So something's gotta be able to make it stop walking/talking/etc. A stake through the heart makes as much sense as anything.
If it’s mimic life, you dont kill it, you destroy it. Imagine a golem or mechanical artifical android, it is not living, but if you fight her in a scifi setting you will use the word kill it, take her life. But it never had organic life in that form of existense.
The idea of "killing" something that's already dead is fundamentally paradoxical anyway.
You could bring up the "heart doesn't even pump blood" issue for pretty much anything you can do to it. None of it is necessary for the vampire to live, because the vampire is not supposed to really be living at all.
Despite this, it walks, it talks, it does all the things that living people do. What we call "Undeath" really resembles life much more than death. So something's gotta be able to make it stop walking/talking/etc. A stake through the heart makes as much sense as anything.
If it’s mimic life, you dont kill it, you destroy it. Imagine a golem or mechanical artifical android, it is not living, but if you fight her in a scifi setting you will use the word kill it, take her life. But it never had organic life in that form of existense.
Interestingly, from what I understand that's the preferred terminology for putting down a horse.
Baldur's Gate Logic: Neira, the assassin in Nashkel Inn, says: "It may be a touch unladylike, but I'm going to slit your throat, I am," before attacking you with a Spiritual Hammer.
The idea of "killing" something that's already dead is fundamentally paradoxical anyway.
You could bring up the "heart doesn't even pump blood" issue for pretty much anything you can do to it. None of it is necessary for the vampire to live, because the vampire is not supposed to really be living at all.
Despite this, it walks, it talks, it does all the things that living people do. What we call "Undeath" really resembles life much more than death. So something's gotta be able to make it stop walking/talking/etc. A stake through the heart makes as much sense as anything.
If it’s mimic life, you dont kill it, you destroy it. Imagine a golem or mechanical artifical android, it is not living, but if you fight her in a scifi setting you will use the word kill it, take her life. But it never had organic life in that form of existense.
Baldur's Gate Logic: Neira, the assassin in Nashkel Inn, says: "It may be a touch unladylike, but I'm going to slit your throat, I am," before attacking you with a Spiritual Hammer.
I can never stand to have Minsc using maces or wearing leather armor for stealth scouting, just because he says stuff like "Swords, not words", "Swords for everyone", and "Full plate and packing steel."
Baldur's Gate Logic: Neira, the assassin in Nashkel Inn, says: "It may be a touch unladylike, but I'm going to slit your throat, I am," before attacking you with a Spiritual Hammer.
I can never stand to have Minsc using maces or wearing leather armor for stealth scouting, just because he says stuff like "Swords, not words", "Swords for everyone", and "Full plate and packing steel."
I'm the same. I sometimes give him a longbow (mainly because bows are so damn effective in BG1) but then I always regret doing it because using missile weapons seems so out of character for him.
Baldur's Gate Logic: Neira, the assassin in Nashkel Inn, says: "It may be a touch unladylike, but I'm going to slit your throat, I am," before attacking you with a Spiritual Hammer.
I can never stand to have Minsc using maces or wearing leather armor for stealth scouting, just because he says stuff like "Swords, not words", "Swords for everyone", and "Full plate and packing steel."
"They will never see us coming. BUT MY BATTLE CRY MIGHT GIVE US AWAY."
I can never stand to have Minsc using maces or wearing leather armor for stealth scouting, just because he says stuff like "Swords, not words", "Swords for everyone", and "Full plate and packing steel."
On that train of thought, Imoen's battle cry "My blade will cut you down to size!" when she's equipped with a bow (and I imagine will stay that way for most players) always annoys me.
I can never stand to have Minsc using maces or wearing leather armor for stealth scouting, just because he says stuff like "Swords, not words", "Swords for everyone", and "Full plate and packing steel."
On that train of thought, Imoen's battle cry "My blade will cut you down to size!" when she's equipped with a bow (and I imagine will stay that way for most players) always annoys me.
Honestly I think you guys are getting too caught up in being hyper literal with the battle cries.
They weren't gonna record a new line for Minsc with each weapon he used, and talking about your "Weapon" in ambiguous terms sounds weird.
The sword/blade, etc can be whatever. I don't think the developers wrote these lines thinking the fans would interpret the character they gave starting mace and bow proficiency as being super duper married to using swords exclusively.
Ladies, Gentlemen and everything in-between; it's been an honor. I hope to recreate this thread on the new forums or whereever it is we all end up.
By all means, let us continue to poke fun at the game we love until this site goes down.
In this case, let me add what I just read in a different thread:
Your ferret familiar can pickpocket someone for a plate mail, seriously?
Better yet, it can pickpocket a bunch of ankheg shells from someone in your party so they don't have to lug them around. Saves a few trips back and forth to Beregost!
Edit: Not to mention it can also pickpocket a wand of fire from you and it goes in it's quickslot. Now you have a fire-breathing ferret! Well, as long as you leave him out of your pocket anyway. As soon as you put him in your inventory, everything it has pickpocketed goes into your inventory too (and the goods are now flagged as stolen so you can't pickpocket the same stuff again)...
Had a lot of fun with the ferret in the rogue reballancing mod back in the day.
One of the changes it makes is that when you fail a pickpocket, instead of immediately turning hostile and attempting to slay your band of mercenaries with their bare hands, they initiate a dialogue that can lose you some reputation if you don't handle it right or don't pass the appropriate stat checks.
Thing is, they can't talk to your ferret. So it can try and steal repeatedly without consequence. They just kind of swat it away. It panics for a bit and then calms down and is ready to try again.
Had that thing running all up and down Athkatla grabbing anything that wasn't nailed to the floor.
(and the goods are now flagged as stolen so you can't pickpocket the same stuff again)...
Actually, they get the "can't steal" flag, which is separate from "stolen". Items only pick up the "stolen" flag by being shoplifted, and the only stuff I'm aware of that starts with the flag is Baeloth's gear in BGEE.
Many things start with the "can't steal" flag, and items pick it up whenever a script action has one character give it to another.
There is a kind of weird discrepancy between the economy the characters of this world seem to be operating under, and the economy you, the player operate under.
There's a quest where some mother asks you to save her boy who got trapped in a lighthouse. She offers you "All the money my husband brought back from the market this last week", a whopping 60 Gold Pieces, which she needs to buy food and clothes and such for her children. Meanwhile you've got like a hundred thousand gold just sitting in your wallet with no more pressing commitment than whatever shiny new killing implement catches your eye next.
There is a kind of weird discrepancy between the economy the characters of this world seem to be operating under, and the economy you, the player operate under.
The reward for solving the trouble in the Nashkel Mines is 900 gold.
Selling the Ring of Holiness you obtained in the Nashkel Mines gets you 5000 gold.
Selling the Ring of Wizardry you found under a rock gets you 9000 gold.
Comments
You could bring up the "heart doesn't even pump blood" issue for pretty much anything you can do to it. None of it is necessary for the vampire to live, because the vampire is not supposed to really be living at all.
Despite this, it walks, it talks, it does all the things that living people do. What we call "Undeath" really resembles life much more than death. So something's gotta be able to make it stop walking/talking/etc. A stake through the heart makes as much sense as anything.
That was a plot point towards the end. The stake through the heart was just some nonsense rumor that caught on. It didn't really do anything. I think some vampire hunter discovered that at an unfortunate moment. It was a persistent theme that the public understanding of vampires didn't always match the reality. Like vampires have strong noses, which makes them have trouble with aromatic foods like garlic, but it doesn't actually hurt them or anything.
I believe this has something to do with the real life origins of the myth of undead. In pre-scientific societies, people often couldn't tell unconsciousness and especially coma from death. There were very frightening experiences where the "dead" would rise suddenly and start rampaging. Imagine a very sick, frightened, person who awakens from a coma in a coffin that is about to be sealed, or sometimes they were able to break out of it. Imagine how such a sick person might look to the superstitious survivors, and they were probably delirious. People thought they were zombies, vampires, etc.
So, the custom arose in some places of driving a stake through the heart of the dead to make sure they stayed dead. They used wood because that's what was widely available.
This grim real-life origin of the legends got carried over into the later nineteenth century gothic horror writings, and from there into the collective lore of the culture.
Everything I've just said needs citations, and I'm basing it off of "stuff I've read about" but can't cite my sources, so take it with a grain of salt.
If it’s mimic life, you dont kill it, you destroy it. Imagine a golem or mechanical artifical android, it is not living, but if you fight her in a scifi setting you will use the word kill it, take her life. But it never had organic life in that form of existense.
Interestingly, from what I understand that's the preferred terminology for putting down a horse.
You "destroy" the horse. Possibly concerning.
A "dead" vampire?
It's clearly a vorpal hammer...
I can never stand to have Minsc using maces or wearing leather armor for stealth scouting, just because he says stuff like "Swords, not words", "Swords for everyone", and "Full plate and packing steel."
I'm the same. I sometimes give him a longbow (mainly because bows are so damn effective in BG1) but then I always regret doing it because using missile weapons seems so out of character for him.
"They will never see us coming. BUT MY BATTLE CRY MIGHT GIVE US AWAY."
On that train of thought, Imoen's battle cry "My blade will cut you down to size!" when she's equipped with a bow (and I imagine will stay that way for most players) always annoys me.
Me too. I always use the Level One NPCs mod to turn her into a Swashbuckler and start her out specialising in daggers so she can use throwing knives. https://gibberlings3.github.io/Documentation/readmes/readme-level1npcs.html
They weren't gonna record a new line for Minsc with each weapon he used, and talking about your "Weapon" in ambiguous terms sounds weird.
The sword/blade, etc can be whatever. I don't think the developers wrote these lines thinking the fans would interpret the character they gave starting mace and bow proficiency as being super duper married to using swords exclusively.
Ladies, Gentlemen and everything in-between; it's been an honor. I hope to recreate this thread on the new forums or whereever it is we all end up.
By all means, let us continue to poke fun at the game we love until this site goes down.
In this case, let me add what I just read in a different thread:
Your ferret familiar can pickpocket someone for a plate mail, seriously?
Better yet, it can pickpocket a bunch of ankheg shells from someone in your party so they don't have to lug them around. Saves a few trips back and forth to Beregost!
Edit: Not to mention it can also pickpocket a wand of fire from you and it goes in it's quickslot. Now you have a fire-breathing ferret! Well, as long as you leave him out of your pocket anyway. As soon as you put him in your inventory, everything it has pickpocketed goes into your inventory too (and the goods are now flagged as stolen so you can't pickpocket the same stuff again)...
One of the changes it makes is that when you fail a pickpocket, instead of immediately turning hostile and attempting to slay your band of mercenaries with their bare hands, they initiate a dialogue that can lose you some reputation if you don't handle it right or don't pass the appropriate stat checks.
Thing is, they can't talk to your ferret. So it can try and steal repeatedly without consequence. They just kind of swat it away. It panics for a bit and then calms down and is ready to try again.
Had that thing running all up and down Athkatla grabbing anything that wasn't nailed to the floor.
Actually, they get the "can't steal" flag, which is separate from "stolen". Items only pick up the "stolen" flag by being shoplifted, and the only stuff I'm aware of that starts with the flag is Baeloth's gear in BGEE.
Many things start with the "can't steal" flag, and items pick it up whenever a script action has one character give it to another.
Now the Baldur's Gate Logic Thread returns!
even when i hit over 700k gold, i still rest like a peasant haha
There's a quest where some mother asks you to save her boy who got trapped in a lighthouse. She offers you "All the money my husband brought back from the market this last week", a whopping 60 Gold Pieces, which she needs to buy food and clothes and such for her children. Meanwhile you've got like a hundred thousand gold just sitting in your wallet with no more pressing commitment than whatever shiny new killing implement catches your eye next.
The reward for solving the trouble in the Nashkel Mines is 900 gold.
Selling the Ring of Holiness you obtained in the Nashkel Mines gets you 5000 gold.
Selling the Ring of Wizardry you found under a rock gets you 9000 gold.