@Dee: Responding to criticism is one thing; acting on it is quite another. You've been promising changes since last April, but so far Beamdog has done nothing to demonstrate any interest whatsoever in the state of its existing products. You write self-congratulatory essays on the wonders of "rebranding beta testing" (as if shifting the burden of proofing your work to people who have already paid for it is some noble experiment), but where are the practical results? We're still waiting on a patch where the major issue of contention was window sizes, while BG2:EE is currently in a borderline-unplayable state.
For all your assurances that you want the games to be "the best that they can be", Beamdog seems more concerned with getting people to pay on more platforms than with helping the people who've already bought the games, and with teasing more features when the ones you've already released don't work. "We're listening" is a platitude, and it's one that loses effectiveness over time; do something about it, or don't be surprised when the tone of the criticism gets harsher.
I do have a question for @Dee. The bugs and things fixed in this next patch... do the fixes and updates also apply to BG2:EE? For example, the highlighting of scrolls that one can learn and things of that sort?
I do have a question for @Dee. The bugs and things fixed in this next patch... do the fixes and updates also apply to BG2:EE? For example, the highlighting of scrolls that one can learn and things of that sort?
Yes, anything code-related (i.e. "the way things work in the game") will affect both games. So the green filter on writeable spells will be there, as well as non-party NPCs receiving proper benefits and penalties from their weapon proficiencies (or lack thereof).
Yes, anything code-related (i.e. "the way things work in the game") will affect both games. So the green filter on writeable spells will be there, as well as non-party NPCs receiving proper benefits and penalties from their weapon proficiencies (or lack thereof).
Yes, anything code-related (i.e. "the way things work in the game") will affect both games. So the green filter on writeable spells will be there, as well as non-party NPCs receiving proper benefits and penalties from their weapon proficiencies (or lack thereof).
Awesome! I think some of the concerns that people have with these patch releases deals with the fact that it seems like BG:EE is getting love for updates and such while BG2:EE still has a ton of bugs and issues. Knowing that patches like these will actually update both games is really good to hear.
Hopefully by 2015 i'll finally be able to play the dream no reload challenge saga with all the mods installed and no bugs whatsoever. But for now i remain skeptical, patch progress way too slow.
@Wayniac: don't read more than was written into Dee's comment ;~) We now know for sure that the intent is to roll the game-engine improvements from BGEE 1.3 into BG2EE 1.3 - but we don't know if they intend to ship them around the same time or not. I don't rule out their ability to surprise (and delight!) but don't want to see Dee hounded for something he did not say, if the patches follow their own timelines.
Given the broad lack of hints of anything BG2EE 1.3, my (totally uninformed) expectation is that the BG2EE patch work begins in earnest as BGEE 1.3 is released, and based on recent form will take 3-6 months more to ship. I would be delighted to be proved wrong, these are totally my own finger in the air guestimates and worth no more than that, but that is how I will gauge my own level of disappointment on the eventual ship date - I am predicting mid-November as a last push to beat the 12 month 'deadline' of a patch within a year of release.
Of course, this assumes it is not derailed by further work on BG2EE for Android - although much of that would be work in parallel.
And despite my carefully lowered expectations, I still hope to be proved wrong in a delightful way, but my inner/outer cynic has a timetable to work with.
Honestly this whole thread is ridiculous. You paid less than $20 for a game with 4 new characters with their own quests and a whole lot of additional material. We aren't entitled to ANYTHING. Stop acting so entitled to constant monthly patches and upgrades and yada yada. They have your money and you have their game, and they could leave it at that like SO MANY other games if they wanted to and they'd be perfectly within their rights. The level of ungratefulness here sickens me over and over again.
Honestly this whole thread is ridiculous. You paid less than $20 for a game with 4 new characters with their own quests and a whole lot of additional material. We aren't entitled to ANYTHING. Stop acting so entitled to constant monthly patches and upgrades and yada yada. They have your money and you have their game, and they could leave it at that like SO MANY other games if they wanted to and they'd be perfectly within their rights. The level of ungratefulness here sickens me over and over again.
this I mean, my nausea right now comes from eating too many plantain chips, but yeah.
It's not a question of entitlement but rather of customer trust. As a developer, if you wish to encourage your customers to purchase your future products you are expected to provide a product that is up to snuff. ("Snuff" meaning gaming industry standards.) And in my opinion, BG2:EE at this time does not quite qualify as such.
Am I entitled to Beamdog fixing the bugs in their games? Nope. Am I grateful that they still do it? Yep. Am I disappointed at the state BG2:EE is in half a year after its release? Unfortunately, yes.
@ZaknafeinBaenre: what you are missing is that this is not (for many) about money. I am lucky that I can write off $25 as a poor investment and move on. But BeamDog sold more than just a couple of $25 games - they sold a dream, and we bought it. If I were mean-sprited I could probably get a refund from the Mac App store for my unlatched BG2, but that is not the point. What I cannot refund is the 12 months of my quality personal time into playing through the first BG with the expectation of playing through to the end of the throne of Bhaal. I was sold a dream, a vision, and had to invest my own personal time into it. That time is very hard to replace. For a student, $25 is a lot of money. For a busy professional, 5 hours gaming a week is a huge investment.
You can tell me I made an unwise investment, and pour salt on my wounds and jump up and down in self-righteousness and maybe it is time for me to be a big boy now and realize that the world just sucks, nobody gets what they paid for, so it is time to just shut up, suck it up, and be a silent and dis-satisfied consumer. I prefer to have a less bleak outlook on life, and hope that pointing out simple things like "oops, you forgot to send Apple the patch you released to everyone else six months ago" might actually have some effect - in fact it turns out that no-one had realized the patch was not sent to Apple, so something was learned (although still no patch).
But at least I am not one of the many here who have contributed their own time and effort into testing the patch without feedback - they have even more reason to be upset, and even less to show for their efforts.
The problem is that I keep trying to leave this thread alone, and every time I think I am done someone drops an incendiary and I fall for the burn. I guess it really is time to be a big boy, and walk away until there is some chance that the long sought path is released. My best guess for Mac is sometime in November, so I will see you all again then.
Time to let go, and play some mass effect. See y'all again at the end of the year.
Months ago I said: You should make content for the game (not free...), but all I saw was ipad, android etc... I'am not saying that is bad, but its been months, it feels like the game is dead.
I won't even ask for patches because I havent found that many bugs... but obviously new npcs and dlc should have been released by now, you are splitting a small team among many OS just to make it work! not even adding content.
When I read these critics I feel I was right. Still, hope your mobile bet is paying off.
I'm not going to waste time reading your 4 paragraphs of whining, as the general gist of it is "i want more for free."
Just gonna add fuel to the fire because I'm bored so why the heck not.
All people are asking Beamdog is to fix what is broken. For example, one of the big selling points of EEs was the multiplayer but guess what? It's a bugfest. So one of the main features is nearly unplayable and it hasn't been fixed in months.
It's like paying for a soup and finding multiple strands of hair in it. Does that mean the soup is inedible? No, absolutely not. One can simply work his/her way around the hair strands. This is essentially your logic: The soup is fine - ignore the hair, eat the damn soup and stop asking for "more for free".
Yet, why should anyone be happy about eating a soup with hair in it? That wasn't the product the company promised. Working around the hair strands is time-consuming and unpleasant. Not to mention, you don't get to enjoy the whole soup as the hair takes with it some contents of the soup.
Also, $20+ hardly equates to "free". It was the price we paid for the new features - some of which are the major sources of bugs and glitches - and official support from the developers. No patch in 6+ months fails to deliver on both accounts and that eats away at people's patience.
Guys, we have rules. People have just as much right to complain about a situation that is frustrating (and I admit it is probably quite frustrating for some people) as people have to talk about how great they think things are going.
I would like to steer this conversation away from attacking one another, for any reason. Be respectful of one another--even if you disagree.
You all saw Trent's tweet; the patch for BGII:EE will come after the patch for BG:EE. I don't think anyone thought that wasn't going to be the case.
So carry on the discussion, and speak your mind about how you feel. And if you disagree with someone, go ahead and say so. But do it with civility, without acid in your words, and with the understanding that not everyone thinks about things exactly the same way that you do.
The Shadow Armor was always thief only, not only in EEs but also in vanilla BG2, so it's not a bug, it's a feature. We've once had a feature request - http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/4303/shadow-armor-not-just-for-thieves - but it hasn't made it into an official version because people view this subject differently. Maybe the Devs will one day adress this feature but not in the upcoming patch.
The Shadow Armor was always thief only, not only in EEs but also in vanilla BG2, so it's not a bug, it's a feature. We've once had a feature request - http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/4303/shadow-armor-not-just-for-thieves - but it hasn't made it into an official version because people view this subject differently. Maybe the Devs will one day adress this feature but not in the upcoming patch.
@artemusclyde, yes, there is. If you make a request topic in the modding category someone can mod it to your exact specifications. Make sure you indicate what classes you would like to be able to use it.
Comments
Positive fans aka Carbos: Fight over her? What an excellent idea! Yes, we shall fight over our beloved BG:EE!
Negative fans akas Shank: Yes, that sounds wonderful. Shall we start now?
Carbos: Certainly, if you wish to.
Shank: Certainly!
BGEE game: [sigh] Well, fine. Go ahead, then. If that's what you boys have to do.
And then, Shank hugged Carbos.
Thanks for the response!
Given the broad lack of hints of anything BG2EE 1.3, my (totally uninformed) expectation is that the BG2EE patch work begins in earnest as BGEE 1.3 is released, and based on recent form will take 3-6 months more to ship. I would be delighted to be proved wrong, these are totally my own finger in the air guestimates and worth no more than that, but that is how I will gauge my own level of disappointment on the eventual ship date - I am predicting mid-November as a last push to beat the 12 month 'deadline' of a patch within a year of release.
Of course, this assumes it is not derailed by further work on BG2EE for Android - although much of that would be work in parallel.
And despite my carefully lowered expectations, I still hope to be proved wrong in a delightful way, but my inner/outer cynic has a timetable to work with.
I mean, my nausea right now comes from eating too many plantain chips, but yeah.
Am I entitled to Beamdog fixing the bugs in their games? Nope. Am I grateful that they still do it? Yep. Am I disappointed at the state BG2:EE is in half a year after its release? Unfortunately, yes.
You can tell me I made an unwise investment, and pour salt on my wounds and jump up and down in self-righteousness and maybe it is time for me to be a big boy now and realize that the world just sucks, nobody gets what they paid for, so it is time to just shut up, suck it up, and be a silent and dis-satisfied consumer. I prefer to have a less bleak outlook on life, and hope that pointing out simple things like "oops, you forgot to send Apple the patch you released to everyone else six months ago" might actually have some effect - in fact it turns out that no-one had realized the patch was not sent to Apple, so something was learned (although still no patch).
But at least I am not one of the many here who have contributed their own time and effort into testing the patch without feedback - they have even more reason to be upset, and even less to show for their efforts.
The problem is that I keep trying to leave this thread alone, and every time I think I am done someone drops an incendiary and I fall for the burn. I guess it really is time to be a big boy, and walk away until there is some chance that the long sought path is released. My best guess for Mac is sometime in November, so I will see you all again then.
Time to let go, and play some mass effect. See y'all again at the end of the year.
I won't even ask for patches because I havent found that many bugs... but obviously new npcs and dlc should have been released by now, you are splitting a small team among many OS just to make it work! not even adding content.
When I read these critics I feel I was right. Still, hope your mobile bet is paying off.
All people are asking Beamdog is to fix what is broken. For example, one of the big selling points of EEs was the multiplayer but guess what? It's a bugfest. So one of the main features is nearly unplayable and it hasn't been fixed in months.
It's like paying for a soup and finding multiple strands of hair in it. Does that mean the soup is inedible? No, absolutely not. One can simply work his/her way around the hair strands. This is essentially your logic: The soup is fine - ignore the hair, eat the damn soup and stop asking for "more for free".
Yet, why should anyone be happy about eating a soup with hair in it? That wasn't the product the company promised. Working around the hair strands is time-consuming and unpleasant. Not to mention, you don't get to enjoy the whole soup as the hair takes with it some contents of the soup.
Also, $20+ hardly equates to "free". It was the price we paid for the new features - some of which are the major sources of bugs and glitches - and official support from the developers. No patch in 6+ months fails to deliver on both accounts and that eats away at people's patience.
I would like to steer this conversation away from attacking one another, for any reason. Be respectful of one another--even if you disagree.
You all saw Trent's tweet; the patch for BGII:EE will come after the patch for BG:EE. I don't think anyone thought that wasn't going to be the case.
So carry on the discussion, and speak your mind about how you feel. And if you disagree with someone, go ahead and say so. But do it with civility, without acid in your words, and with the understanding that not everyone thinks about things exactly the same way that you do.
The Shadow Armor was always thief only, not only in EEs but also in vanilla BG2, so it's not a bug, it's a feature. We've once had a feature request - http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/4303/shadow-armor-not-just-for-thieves - but it hasn't made it into an official version because people view this subject differently. Maybe the Devs will one day adress this feature but not in the upcoming patch.