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"Maybe this time" [NO-RELOAD THREAD]: "The Tale of TEN THOUSAND Trials"



  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,831
    edited September 2017
    Looking back on all that's happened, I'd say that the Seducer's power is really dependent on how it is used.

    Used on its own, with no special tricks or optimizations, the Seducer as a character class is more or less average. It can charm all kinds of critters, but a simple save vs. spell can negate the effect, and there is little a Seducer can do besides charm stuff and pick a few locks.

    Used with a mage using Greater Malison or an Archer using Called Shot, the Seducer is above average as a character class, because save penalties weaken the critical drawback of the Seducer's abilities: they all offer a saving throw.

    Used to bring monsters into the party with Seduction, the Seducer is one of the strongest classes in the game. Monsters tend to have terrible stats and no proficiency points, but they come with all kinds of special powers that normal characters cannot have.

    But when pushed to its absolute limit, using level drain to weaken high-level enemies who would otherwise be immune to Seduction, the Seducer has far more potential than any other class, simply because level drain can add some absolutely ridiculous monsters to the party. Dragons, demons, and mind flayers all have immense potential. Seduction is pretty weak in BG1, but its power grows exponentially, until it eclipses practically everything somewhere in late BG2.

    I think beating Ascension as a single-classed Seducer, without dual-classing, is perfectly doable, despite its lack of PFMW and generally abysmal defenses. Melissan can be killed before she gets a chance to get Time Stop off the ground. It should even be possible without the level drain trick, because a level 28 Seducer (3.96 million XP) can bring an Ancient Vampire into the party. Properly buffed, that vampire should be able to kill Melissan in two rounds using CON drain--or possibly even a single round, in the likely event that you can get the vampire enough XP to learn Critical Strike and therefore get automatic hits on Melissan. An Ancient Vampire's second weapon in SCS is a +4 weapon that drains 3 Constitution per hit with no save, bypassing magic resistance, for 50 rounds. Their base APR is 3, their fighter levels would bump it up to 4, and Improved Haste would bump it up to 8.

    In an ideal party, a Seducer would definitely play a role. But it probably shouldn't be the main character, because Seducers are strongest when they're breaking invisibility and spending their aura by using Domination, which also puts them in danger.

    I could remove the level drain exploit by adding a restoration effect to Seduction, because it really is overpowered. But it's just plain fun to have some crazy critter like a dragon join the party, even on the second playthrough.

    Post edited by semiticgoddess on
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,176
    @Enuhal Best of intelligence in finishing SoD.

  • ussnorwayussnorway Member Posts: 341

    A charmed life,

    I won a battle but lost the war... her champion of light and justice shit herself and hid from me but a druid doesn't need to see her targets to kill them... hardly matters because demons charmed my two fighters then tossed a fear into the bargain... the end!

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,980
    edited September 2017
    Bash {3} - berserk melee sorcerer (1st and final update)
    Previous updates:

    A second attempt with this character (restricted to killing things with Brage's berserking sword) lasted only a couple of minutes when I absent-mindedly killed some rats in Candlekeep.

    Aiming for third time lucky intelligently, Bash went straight to collect the sword without trouble. He also claimed his first victim in Nashkel after tiring of Noober prattling on. Picking up the ankheg armor there made him feel less naked, before talking to Oublek raised his reputation sufficiently to get CLW as a Bhaal ability. However, it appeared I didn't rest enough prior to heading back to Beregost as no ability had been gained by the time Algernon was the victim of a vicious critical. Firebead and Mr Colquetle gave him some reputation back before he tried sleeping some xvarts. I was afraid though that Hulrik would die in a berserk rage, so tried to get to him out of sight of the xvarts - but ran into a wolf. The delay from that meant the xvarts revived soon after he got there and he was not quite able to finish them off in time to save Arabelle - though he did come to his senses in time to avoid chopping the ungrateful Hulrik up.

    Taking a major risk he went to collect Samuel - with only 11 HPs there are quite a few potential ambushes on that route that could kill him. However, the only ambush that triggered was by 4 dogs and he was just able to beat them up. I was tempted to pay for healing at the temple, but handing Samuel in had given Bash a level and with the 6 extra HPs from that he decided he had enough to attack the hobgoblins guarding Joia's ring. They were quickly disposed of and, with reputation back up to 10, Bash rested to make sure of the Bhaal power this time.

    Back in Beregost, Neera was charmed and lured away to admire Bash's big sword at close range. He then completed his bag collection by killing some sleeping gnolls on the way to buy the potion case at High Hedge. Resting until a single skeleton tried an ambush provided him with a skull and a mage level - and moments later Melicamp was restored to give a nice XP bonus and a reputation boost.

    Sleep made quests for Mirianne and Zhurlong simple - the latter providing a third fighter level. This time I didn't let Zhurlong get away with his theft though - managing to blind and kill him far enough away from others to avoid reputation damage.

    The ogre with a belt fetish was once more slept from out of sight and Bash also got around to picking up the Ring of Wizardry before deciding it was time to seek revenge on the basilisks that ended his first run. High Hedge provided a few spells before he travelled to the basilisk area. This time, rather than starting in the south where 4 basilisks have to be fought at once, he went to the north to pick off the 4 basilisks separated from Mutamin. That was done without taking any damage, but Bash only picked up his 3rd mage level for that. Going south I prepared to battle the basilisks, but was interrupted by a question about what we needed from Tesco's and as a result only realised after hacking down the first basilisk (getting a 4th fighter level in the process) that Bash had not put his armor back on - giving him no real chance against the remaining basilisks.

  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,176
    edited September 2017
    @ussnorway Sad! :'( RIP
    @Grond0 You have obviously not been giving Shar sufficient offerings.
    PS I've forgotten to put the armour back on myself.

  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,176
    @Grond0 Sorry he died, even though he wasn't the kind of person that I'd like to meet.

  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,831
    Tagging @Blackraven about the Jimfix mod.
    Alesia_BH said:

    Quick Question: Does anyone have a copy of the Jimfix mod? Blackraven's old link is no longer active. In particular, I want the Abazigal, Irenicus, and Fallen Solar fixes. Thanks!



    Btw. I'm actually factually going to start playing soon. Hooray!


  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,831
    @Alesia_BH and/or @Alesia_B_H: Since I don't think I included a link in my previous posts, the Seducer kit is a kit I designed a while ago and revised many times since. You can find it, along with the (rather detailed) description, here.

  • AionZAionZ Member Posts: 3,247

    Sirene was then killed

    Lol. It was a bit of an in-joke for me during testing that my tactics had serious issues if Sirene somehow managed to die. I deliberately designed her to probably be the most innately durable (as-in, not a mage) NPC in the game. Not that I'm casting doubt on your own tactics, I just find it amusing when something actually kills her.

  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,831
    Reminds me of a line from that South Park episode about the conjoined fetus lady.

    I just find it amusing when something actually kills her.

    I haven't seen a paladin die like that since Ajantis!

  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 996
    edited September 2017

    @Ygramul, would you add Mollyboo/Frisky Bits' run to the first post?

    I'm not sure if it truly counts as a solo run; technically it's two or three connected runs; and the ban on most mod items didn't apply on the re-run through BG1, SoD, and most of SoA. But asterisks or no, here it is.

    Mollyboo the Seducer/Frisky Bits the Seducer/Mage: @semiticgod
    Notable mods: "basically everything" ("SCS and Ascension including full pre-buffing and universal HLAs")

    For Mollyboo:
    (BG1 run begins here and ends here)
    (SoD run begins here and ends here)
    (SoA run begins here and ends here)
    For Frisky Bits:
    (BG1 run is here)
    (SoD run is here)
    (SoA run begins here and ends here)
    (1st ToB run begins here and ends here)
    (2nd ToB run begins here and ends here)

    I don't want to be picky, but since you died during the ToB final fight with Frisky Bits, and had to reload at the start of ToB, does that count as a successful run ? Doesn't the rule imply a full Trilogy/Tetralogy no-reload to be considered a success or no-reloading individual games in sufficient ? It's merely a question to clarify things I have.

  • Serg_BlackStriderSerg_BlackStrider Member Posts: 176
    edited September 2017
    Arctodus said:

    I don't want to be picky, but since you died during the ToB final fight with Frisky Bits, and had to reload at the start of ToB, does that count as a successful run ? Doesn't the rule imply a full Trilogy/Tetralogy no-reload to be considered a success or no-reloading individual games in sufficient ? It's merely a question to clarify things I have.

    Back on Bioware boards we didn't considered a no-reloading of individual games as sufficient for the proper full Trilogy no-reload run. I believe the same is assumed here. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Post edited by Serg_BlackStrider on
  • ussnorwayussnorway Member Posts: 341

    @ussnorway Sad! :'( RIP

    thanks mate... she went down swinging

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