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  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,848
    Pantalion said:

    Of course, it should also break when disarming traps and doesn't, unless they fixed that in 2.5?

    I don't see why it should. The whole point of a trap is that it is not easily seen, otherwise you wouldn't need a "detect traps" ability. Thus, changing the trap slightly would probably not be noticable.

  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,428

    Genies deal crushing damage despite wielding scimitars.

    They also see invisible.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903

    Genies deal crushing damage despite wielding scimitars.

    They also see invisible.
    I think that's a mod-introduced change in your install. Looking at my heavily modded EET+SCS install and unmodded v2.5 BG2:EE, genies cannot see through invisibility.
  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,428


    I think that's a mod-introduced change in your install. Looking at my heavily modded EET+SCS install and unmodded v2.5 BG2:EE, genies cannot see through invisibility.

    It might just be the Dao Djinn in Trademeet, actually. I don't see other Genies ever, really, so that's all I went on.
    Contemplative_Hamster
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Abi_Dalzim: They don't have the invisibility detection opcode, either. Maybe it's a scripting error--some critters are scripted to target characters even if they're not supposed to be visible.
    lolien
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137

    Pantalion said:

    Of course, it should also break when disarming traps and doesn't, unless they fixed that in 2.5?

    I don't see why it should. The whole point of a trap is that it is not easily seen, otherwise you wouldn't need a "detect traps" ability. Thus, changing the trap slightly would probably not be noticable.

    The caster cannot perform any actions that manipulate the environment around , such as opening doors, disarming a trap, or opening a chest.

    All up in that spell description. Unattended items: Fair game. Anything else: Breaks invisibility.

    Genies deal crushing damage despite wielding scimitars.

    Reminds me of Ogre Berserkers, but I think it's just their sprite that wields the mace, while the creature wields a two handed sword.
    semiticgoddess
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Tresset said:

    Pantalion said:

    As of the v2.5 update, using the quick-loot feature will break invisibility.

    You can still pick up items while maintaining invisibility by standing over an item on the ground and then picking it up from the inventory screen.

    So they're introducing bugs now?
    Introducing bugs? Absolutely not. Enforcing consistency? Yes. Keep in mind that before EE there was no quickloot feature. It was meant to be a shortcut for looting. It also worked quite differently from looting in this regard so it is not "introducing bugs" to make new time saving convenience features behave just like the old school methods do. Also, consider that since the EE developers introduced the quickloot feature their intentions for the feature would be the most prominent, if not the only, determinants for what behavior regarding it is a bug and what behavior regarding it is intended.

    As for the description of the Invisibility spell, that is a bit different. Invisibility always worked the way it does now. I would prefer the description be updated to match the spell effects rather than vise versa. The developers often seem to prefer doing things this way too.
    So inventory screen pickup and disarm traps will work forever, since invisibility always worked that way, clicking items to pick them up from the looting screen will break invisibility, and using the quick loot bar will also break invisibility, forcing people to use the most inconvenient option to pick something up while invisible.

    Changing from being sometimes correct to consistently wrong is not an improvement, and changing the text to match the engine rather than vice versa is unfaithful to the system upon which Baldur's Gate is based.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,262
    Pantalion said:

    So inventory screen pickup and disarm traps will work forever, since invisibility always worked that way, clicking items to pick them up from the looting screen will break invisibility, and using the quick loot bar will also break invisibility, forcing people to use the most inconvenient option to pick something up while invisible.

    To be fair, the picking up things with inventory screen while remaining invisible would be an exploit, technically speaking. (I happen to like it, though.)
    Pantalion said:

    Changing from being sometimes correct to consistently wrong is not an improvement, and changing the text to match the engine rather than vice versa is unfaithful to the system upon which Baldur's Gate is based.

    If by that you mean "It isn't like what D&D rules say it should be." then, yes, you would be right. BG is, and has always been, an adaptation of D&D rules and not a 100% identical implementation of them. There is no shortage of differences between D&D and BG rules. This is why I think it would be usually better to match the engine rather than standard D&D rules. Just my opinion though. I would rather not get too far off topic here.
    ThacoBellJuliusBorisov
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,428
    edited February 2018
    @semiticgod That's good to know, I only tested it with Maze and thought the same applies to Imprisonment because of the same animation.
    semiticgoddessJuliusBorisov
  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,428

    <
    Whilst Tethoril is easy to kill, it takes a long time to do it. The good thing about going up there before speaking to Koveras is that you can loot the place much easier. :)

    It takes ages to kill Ulraunt, too. IIRC, his AC is below -10, he's got 100 percent magic resistance, and well over 100 hit points. His offense is nothing special, so that's the main reason you could stand a chance.
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714

    <
    Whilst Tethoril is easy to kill, it takes a long time to do it. The good thing about going up there before speaking to Koveras is that you can loot the place much easier. :)

    It takes ages to kill Ulraunt, too. IIRC, his AC is below -10, he's got 100 percent magic resistance, and well over 100 hit points. His offense is nothing special, so that's the main reason you could stand a chance.
    Poison does the trick, IIRC.
    Wise_GrimwaldProont
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,938

    Did you know that you can cancel Maze and Imprisonment on the fly, after the animation has already started with PfM which dispels them before the effect kicks in? Good insurance for solo no-reload.

    Ive done that with a barbarian rage to evade a maze trap that I hit once unawares in the thieves hideout in BG2. Tried it with Korgan fighting the Beholders that cast imprisonment (IIRC), but have to watch the feedback closely.
    histamiiniProontlolien
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,508
    That's a lot of scrolls that you need though. Are there that many?
  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,428
    edited February 2018
    lroumen said:

    That's a lot of scrolls that you need though. Are there that many?

    You can use as many or as few as your resources allow. Last time I did it, I bought up all the ones at Friendly Arm, Beregost, and Nashkel, which added up to 53 as I recall. Or maybe 54, since I used one on Branwen. It's also surprisingly cheap with Friends + a good reputation. Cost me less than 10,000 altogether, I remember that much.
    PantalionJuliusBorisov
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Abi_Dalzim: Do you just need to order your pet basilisk to attack him? Because in my installs, ordering the basilisks to attack causes them to use their melee attack instead of their petrification gaze. The only way for me to get a charmed basilisk to use its petrification attack is to let a hostile basilisk attack them, at which point they retaliatie with their gaze attack.

    Do any of the other basilisks stay non-hostile like that? Because it would be great if you could charm a neutral basilisk, as that would be safer than trying to charm a hostile one.

    @Iroumen: You can buy Stone to Flesh scrolls at the Friendly Arm Inn temple, Temple of Lathander in Beregost, and the Temple of Helm in Nashkel. One of them has 17 scrolls; the other two have 19, so there's enough scrolls to get a solo character well beyond the XP cap, and gain several levels for a whole party. Once you reach Baldur's Gate and get back to Candlekeep, you can buy even more at other temples.
    StummvonBordwehrProontlolien
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137

    @Abi_Dalzim: Do you just need to order your pet basilisk to attack him? Because in my installs, ordering the basilisks to attack causes them to use their melee attack instead of their petrification gaze. The only way for me to get a charmed basilisk to use its petrification attack is to let a hostile basilisk attack them, at which point they retaliatie with their gaze attack.

    Do any of the other basilisks stay non-hostile like that? Because it would be great if you could charm a neutral basilisk, as that would be safer than trying to charm a hostile one.

    @Iroumen: You can buy Stone to Flesh scrolls at the Friendly Arm Inn temple, Temple of Lathander in Beregost, and the Temple of Helm in Nashkel. One of them has 17 scrolls; the other two have 19, so there's enough scrolls to get a solo character well beyond the XP cap, and gain several levels for a whole party. Once you reach Baldur's Gate and get back to Candlekeep, you can buy even more at other temples.

    Yeah, this is exactly the strategy I use. You need to make sure your charmed 'lisk is in "petrify" mode. If they are, then stoning the Greaterlisk won't change their mode, if they're not, you need to have them melee things until they change modes again. I sometimes spend days trying to get a basilisk to cooperate, and even then it's possible for a random spawn to show up and change their mode again.

    lroumen said:

    That's a lot of scrolls that you need though. Are there that many?

    You can use as many or as few as your resources allow. Last time I did it, I bought up all the ones at Friendly Arm, Beregost, and Nashkel, which added up to 53 as I recall. Or maybe 54, since I used one on Branwen. It's also surprisingly cheap with Friends + a good reputation. Cost me less than 10,000 altogether, I remember that much.
    168 GP per scroll with 20 Charisma and neutral reputation. You can cap almost any solo CHARNAME with a single temple's worth of scrolls.
    lolien
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,508
    Sounds like money well spent then
    StummvonBordwehrPantalionProontlolien
  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,428

    @Abi_Dalzim: Do you just need to order your pet basilisk to attack him? Because in my installs, ordering the basilisks to attack causes them to use their melee attack instead of their petrification gaze. The only way for me to get a charmed basilisk to use its petrification attack is to let a hostile basilisk attack them, at which point they retaliatie with their gaze attack.

    I'll admit, I have not figured out how to get them to switch from one mode to another, and in past experience, the only way to get one to switch modes back to petrify is to choose a different target. For this, I guess I got lucky, because my pet started with the gaze attack and never switched. I will say that another trick I have to speed the process is to order it to attack the non-hostile GB, and then never issue manual command to it again. It'll just keep shooting its gaze attack continuously, and you can simply time your Stone to Flesh scrolls such that the target gets un-stoned immediately after failing a save.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Pantalion: Do you have a way of getting them to use the petrification gaze?

    I have the scripts here, but I'm not sure exactly how to make them switch. For reference, the petrification attack is in the basilisk's first weapon slot.


    IF
    StateCheck(Myself,STATE_PANIC)
    THEN
    RESPONSE #100
    RandomWalkContinuous()
    END

    IF
    See(NearestEnemyOf(Myself))
    Range(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),5)
    Delay(12)
    !StateCheck(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),STATE_STONE_DEATH)
    THEN
    RESPONSE #30
    SelectWeaponAbility(SLOT_WEAPON0,0)
    RunAwayFromNoLeaveArea(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),45)
    AttackReevaluate(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),15)
    RESPONSE #70
    SelectWeaponAbility(SLOT_WEAPON1,0)
    AttackReevaluate(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),15)
    END

    IF
    See(NearestEnemyOf(Myself))
    Delay(12)
    !StateCheck(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),STATE_STONE_DEATH)
    THEN
    RESPONSE #70
    SelectWeaponAbility(SLOT_WEAPON0,0)
    AttackReevaluate(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),15)
    RESPONSE #30
    SelectWeaponAbility(SLOT_WEAPON1,0)
    AttackReevaluate(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),15)
    END

    IF
    See(NearestEnemyOf(Myself))
    !StateCheck(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),STATE_STONE_DEATH)
    ActionListEmpty()
    THEN
    RESPONSE #40
    SelectWeaponAbility(SLOT_WEAPON0,0)
    AttackReevaluate(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),15)
    END

    IF
    See(NearestEnemyOf(Myself))
    ActionListEmpty()
    THEN
    RESPONSE #40
    SelectWeaponAbility(SLOT_WEAPON1,0)
    AttackReevaluate(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),15)
    END


    IF
    StateCheck(Myself,STATE_PANIC)
    THEN
    RESPONSE #100
    RandomWalkContinuous()
    END

    IF
    See(NearestEnemyOf(Myself))
    Range(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),5)
    Delay(12)
    !StateCheck(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),STATE_STONE_DEATH)
    THEN
    RESPONSE #30
    SelectWeaponAbility(SLOT_WEAPON0,0)
    RunAwayFromNoLeaveArea(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),45)
    AttackReevaluate(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),15)
    RESPONSE #70
    SelectWeaponAbility(SLOT_WEAPON1,0)
    AttackReevaluate(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),15)
    END

    IF
    See(NearestEnemyOf(Myself))
    Delay(12)
    !StateCheck(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),STATE_STONE_DEATH)
    THEN
    RESPONSE #70
    SelectWeaponAbility(SLOT_WEAPON0,0)
    AttackReevaluate(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),15)
    RESPONSE #30
    SelectWeaponAbility(SLOT_WEAPON1,0)
    AttackReevaluate(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),15)
    END

    IF
    See(NearestEnemyOf(Myself))
    !StateCheck(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),STATE_STONE_DEATH)
    ActionListEmpty()
    THEN
    RESPONSE #40
    SelectWeaponAbility(SLOT_WEAPON0,0)
    AttackReevaluate(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),15)
    END

    IF
    See(NearestEnemyOf(Myself))
    ActionListEmpty()
    THEN
    RESPONSE #40
    SelectWeaponAbility(SLOT_WEAPON1,0)
    AttackReevaluate(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),15)
    END

  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,428
    I haven't used the Ring nearly as much since they made it incompatible with Haste, but I'd been under the impression that it protects against Hold, but not stun or paralysis, as such.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    It depends on your install. Depending on your mods and possibly the game version, Free Action effects grant immunity to stun and cure stun when activated.

    In my unmodded v2.5 BG1 install, the ring grants no immunity to stun but appears to be rigged to cure both paralysis and stun.
    AerakarProontlolienJuliusBorisov
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