Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition has been released! Visit nwn.beamdog.com to make an order. NWN:EE FAQ is available.
Soundtracks for BG:EE, SoD, BG2:EE, IWD:EE, PST:EE are now available in the Beamdog store.
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Just can't enjoy Siege

123457»

Comments

  • jasteyjastey Member Posts: 523
    bleusteel said:

    I thought it was clear that the canon party was captured with you because of their motivation from BG1.

    Jaheira and Khalid swore to watch over Charname (whether Charname wants to be watched or not).

    Dynaheir and Minsc were on a mission to study Bhaalspawn.

    Imoen is your sister and asked people from the siege camp for help. The only ones motivated to do so were the canon members.

    Makes sense to me.

    Make sense to me, too. But where in SoD are these motivations stated? If these are the reasons these NPCs join at the end of SoD, then SoD didn't do its homework because it is nowhere stated. It's head canon, if at all.

    I don't think Dynaheir in original (unmodded) game ever states her search for Bhaalspawn? I think it's added by BG1NPC Project, tbh.

    I posted these motivations myself a while back somewhere on these forums. They are what came to me after pondering about it for a while - because their joining was something SoD was supposed to *explain* but failed.



  • BleriotBleriot Member Posts: 31
    Kusel said:

    ThacoBell said:

    @verlaine Because, after being ousted to Caelar by Charname, he can't. He is forced to flee and attacks the Coalition camp to try and acquire a staging area for his own siege on Dragonspear. The dead coalition soldiers would also provide good undead fodder.

    I did play the version @verlaine is mentioning as well. You had the battle more or less with H. taking Caelar's role.
    I understand why it's not good, it just felt as railroaded as it was before, like there needs to be that battle come what may. We have the big code and the pyrotechnics and we need to show them to you.
    In the end, less can be more. When you confront H. with what you know and you convince C. to believe you, he flees to the portal. And when you follow, he plays the trick like in original. And you go on from there.
    Why not discuss this in the mod's own topic?
    Maybe here is not the best place. Ask the author directly is far better.

  • Dev6Dev6 Member Posts: 419

    A commentator said this about the latest Star Wars trilogy and the film, The Last Jedi, in particular.

    "They had one chance, one chance in the history of the universe to bring back the original cast and give us the closure that, as fans, we have been waiting for.
    And they blew it."

    SOD is nowhere near as bad and obviously the emotional involvement is nowhere near as devastating, characters, at least, survived intact.

    Oh man, I loved SoD, but if people despise it as much as I despise The Last Jedi then I have to feel empathy for them. That damn movie left a hole in my soul...

  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,761
    Dev6 said:

    A commentator said this about the latest Star Wars trilogy and the film, The Last Jedi, in particular.

    "They had one chance, one chance in the history of the universe to bring back the original cast and give us the closure that, as fans, we have been waiting for.
    And they blew it."

    SOD is nowhere near as bad and obviously the emotional involvement is nowhere near as devastating, characters, at least, survived intact.

    Oh man, I loved SoD, but if people despise it as much as I despise The Last Jedi then I have to feel empathy for them. That damn movie left a hole in my soul...
    I don't despise SOD, far from it. It's a good game, but not a BG game.

    But it strikes me the same type of mistake was made.
    Too keen to make "their" mark, too keen to update in an effort to be "relevant".
    Hubris in a nutshell.

  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 354
    edited March 6
    Grum said:

    jastey said:

    bleusteel said:

    I thought it was clear that the canon party was captured with you because of their motivation from BG1.

    Jaheira and Khalid swore to watch over Charname (whether Charname wants to be watched or not).

    Dynaheir and Minsc were on a mission to study Bhaalspawn.

    Imoen is your sister and asked people from the siege camp for help. The only ones motivated to do so were the canon members.

    Makes sense to me.

    Make sense to me, too. But where in SoD are these motivations stated? If these are the reasons these NPCs join at the end of SoD, then SoD didn't do its homework because it is nowhere stated. It's head canon, if at all.

    I don't think Dynaheir in original (unmodded) game ever states her search for Bhaalspawn? I think it's added by BG1NPC Project, tbh.

    I posted these motivations myself a while back somewhere on these forums. They are what came to me after pondering about it for a while - because their joining was something SoD was supposed to *explain* but failed.



    If you charm her in BG1 she tells you that.
    SoD didn’t address the canon party’s motivation because it never changed from BG1.

    I’m almost to the end of my second SoD playthrough, but I’m pretty certain that Dynaheir or Jaheira says something along the lines of
    Charname might be an a$$ but it’s our duty to keep an eye on them.

    ThacoBell
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,813
    BTW, @UnderstandMouseMagic I know that, for people my age, Star Wars was ruined many years ago. It was bad enough watching the third movie, “The Care Bears Save the Universe”. But even before that, there was this

    Star Wars Holiday Special

    OrlonKronsteenNimranThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 4,962
    @Kusel I'm refferring to my hypothetical alternate version.

  • LAZERDOGLAZERDOG Member Posts: 27
    Ardanis said:

    It's been thought about, but not really planned. My version would have involved defending the castle from coalition troops (much like in NWN HotU), but it'd require giving PC a very good reason to suddenly turn on his allies and side with the enemy - definitely not some "I make decisions here" one-liner excuse.

    Interestingly I would have expected an entirely different turn of events when joining forces with Caelar. Imho a good point of joining her could have been after surrendering Bridgefort. In fact, for this very reason I was like "Heya - it's me - Bhaalspawn (TM)!". After all, I had just (with a little liberty) completed the task given to me by Kharem(?) and the crusade could finally call the fort theirs. The fact that you couldn't join Caelar (or be delivered to her :p ) in any of the scenes felt incredibly rail-road-ish and is my number one disappointment with the title. I love so much about it - but it just happened to deny the choices that I tried to make at every corner :p

    Anyways I would have expected something along the lines of:
    • Joining Caelar and agreeing to follow her crusade, using your blood to open the portal (voluntarily or not)
    • Making some last minute preparations (side quests similar to the under-cover quests in Dragonspear), however not so much focussed on the alliance (they should, if I'm not mistaken, be a few days behind) but rather on the invasion of hell
    • Potentially falling for Hephernan's trap - i.e. witnessing the crusade fall apart within hell. This section would of course be a lot bigger than in the final game - potentially with multiple decisions and outcomes
    • Returning from hell and facing the consequences of the failed crusade (which could lead to the Bhaalspawn fleeing directly (which could tie into the actual epilogue) or battling any hellspawn that may have escaped the portal (a potential alternate siege scene here??) and finally facing trial for your choices - again tying in the actual ending of SoD
    Needless to say that would have required a lot of additional development resources. But imho it felt like we could make such a choice in so many places in the game, that it felt pretty underwhelming that there was actually no choice at all...

    Anyways thanks for mentioning Roxanne's mod. I'll surely check that one out :) Too bad the second part of it is on hold o.O

  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,134
    I enjoyed Siege of Dragonspear, but I also would prefer a new world with new characters utilizing the Infinity Engine.

123457»
Sign In or Register to comment.