@AndrewFoley Thank you for the response! That is an excellent list I will for sure be checking out the ones I am not familiar with but from the ones I am familiar with you clearly have good taste!!
Maybe Phil. Watching him play Bort Flametoot in the Beamdog D&D game has given me a new perspective on him, and a quick google search suspiciously turns up no images of him at all. That's a mighty low digital profile, which a man with a taste for human flesh would probably do well to maintain...
But no. Phil's far too laid back to be doing something that illegal.
No, I think if we're going to be looking for cannibalistic tendencies, we need to look to the one person in office who seems to genuinely like people. Perhaps she likes them a little too much, if you know what I mean. Who do I speak of...?
Amber Scott. Oh, she seems friendly enough--how else will she get close enough to determine whether you meet her strict dietary criteria? Look at the darkness behind those eyes, that demonic, bloodthirsty sneer barely concealed by the seemingly affable smile...
Yes, my friends. THIS is the face of a woman who's had a taste of long pig--and liked it.
Also did you ever have an idea for BG2 ee that wasn't accepted (because too awesome) and if you remember what it was could you share??
There were plenty of ideas that didn't make the cut, but I must admit the vast majority of them fell not because they were too awesome but because they weren't awesome enough.
There was one thing I wanted to do, but it wasn't for BGIIEE. If we could've pulled it off, it would've been a Cloverfield street level view of the biggest monsters available going to war with each other, just beating the living crap out of each other in a rolling, highly destructive battle through a city the PC was stuck in.
Unfortunately, the Cloverfield-style effect I wanted to get is predicated on a worm's-eye view of events. While we're constrained to the top down iso view, my War of Incredibly Tough to Kill Giant Monsters Hellbent on Destroying Also Nearly Impossibly to Hurt Giant Monsters goes away to we're working from something closer to an FPS view or I come up with the elements needed to make it work in another medium.
But can you imagine it. You're walking along and the SHRAKABOOM!, a half-dead red dragon comes smashing through the building in front of you, bounces of the streets a couple times. A black dragon swoops overhead, looking for another target. The red dragon hauls itself halfway to its feet when BOOM!--A storm giant comes careening through another building, tackling it down to the cobblestones you just barely managed to dive off of split second ago...
I can imagine it. Imagining it as a game, maybe not so much.
Heyo! Got a couple things the three of you still reading this thread (hi Mum!) might be interested in.
First, BGEE and Pathfinder writer Dave Gross had a little chat with me while I had a lengthy chat back, talking about various writing-related topics. The result can be found at his site, here: http://frabjousdave.com/creative-colleagues-andrew-foley/
And the Boss, Mr. Oster himself, talked to the Stuff That Fascinates Us guys here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t6xqEHdBWw&feature=youtu.be -- I'm not 100% sure, but I *think* there's at least one piece of Adventure Y info in there that hadn't been made public yet...? I wouldn't have said it to anyone, anyway, that's for damn sure...
He is making a joke in reference to the Torment in the title. Instead of being tormented the protagonist will be feeling average throughout his experience.
Am I right in understanding your tweet this way: you've tried PS:T and in the end have decided to pass.
No, it was really just an attempt at a joke, that I'd pitched the worst idea for a Planescape sequel ever, didn't realize that's what it was, and had a sense that the higher-ups weren't going to go for it but couldn't put my finger on why.
It was funny in my head at the time...
I've never actually played PST, it came out when I didn't have money to buy it or time to play it, and I'm a little worried about trying it now, to be honest. It seems like it'd be right up my alley, storywise, and it's got a stellar reputation, to the point that I'd almost certainly be going into it with the sort of unrealistic expectations that frequently lead to... well, not disappointment, more a general "Huh. Well, that's definitely a thing that exists" response.
Imported this reply from the All You Wanted to Know About Adventure Y thread, because it's got bugger all to do with Adventure Y but I wrote it so damn it all, it's getting posted somewhere. We pick up mid-conversation, with @Brer_Rabbit answering my more snarky-seeming than it was meant question of how hard they'd looked for information about videogame writers who didn't start out as programmers...
I looked quite a bit once I graduated, but rarely ever saw any job postings in the videogame industry for writers.
Oh, I think I see where you're coming from now. Yeah, job postings for videogame writers are a bit like job postings for comic writers--there aren't likely to be very many of them, because the quantity of people who'd like the job vastly outnumber the jobs available.
Networking is a huge part of most work-for-hire writers' careers. It sucks, but that's the way it is. I got my job at Beamdog because Dave Gross recommended me for it (my background is in comics and screenwriting, not videogames.) Amber got called in because I recommended her (I'm 99% sure that if she hadn't had other obligations at the time, Dave would have recommended her for the job I got.) Once you're in the door, it's on you to prove you deserve to be there (as Amber and I hope I have done and are doing), but just getting in the door--just *finding* the door--that's hard. That's probably why you've seen so many writers that started as programmers--by being programmers, they're well-positioned to fill a creative role when it needs filling.
Saw an awful lot of stuff for programmers, though (well, an awful lot as a percentage of jobs actually available at the time).
There's at least a couple of reasons for that. First, programmers have actual, more or less quantifiable skills that game creation absolutely requires. Anyone can write something that resembles a story; I could never in a million years do what Scott Brooks, Cam Tofer, or pretty much anyone else employed by Beamdog can do to get something other than letters onto a screen. Second, it's easy for a writer to say "And then fights an army of seven thousand orcs, goblins, lemures, and displacer beasts", but making that actually happen in a game will take I don't even like to think about how many programming hours.
If you want a career in videogames, programming's definitely the place to be--that's where the biggest demand for workers is always going to be until the machines develop sentience and destroy us all.
I was wondering if "videogame writers" even existed. A few professors told me no, a good deal simply shrugged and admitted that they knew nothing about the industry.
The ones who admitted ignorance were wiser than the ones who said no. Videogame writers absolutely do exist, but as I said, it's not an easy field to break into. Last I heard (which was a few years back), Bioware was willing to consider hiring writers based on samples. I've seen a couple of ads for positions at Riot Games and EA pop up on LinkedIn in the last year or so, though they tend to want people with experience to apply (that might be another reason programmers make the jump into writing--they create their own indie game and use it as a calling card to get other work. That's how things tend to work in comics.)
It can be done, but it's a longshot, especially if all you're bringing to the table is a facility with plotting and dialogue. Then again, carving out pretty much any sustainable writing career is a longshot. If videogames are your passion, I'd say go for it. You may never get where you want to be, but at least you'll be doing something you enjoy doing while you try.
Thank you for the insight, @AndrewFoley. If you don't mind me asking, I have a few more questions for you...
1: How do you avoid "burn-out" in the high-stakes and often crunch-time focused game industry, especially since your job relies on your creativity?
2: You mentioned that coming in with strong writing skills may not be enough for the industry. What other skills would you suggest to anyone looking to enter the field?
3: You've done both screenwriting and comics-- which helped you more with plotting videogames? Did anything surprise you in being the same in videogames as your previous fields of writing?
1: How do you avoid "burn-out" in the high-stakes and often crunch-time focused game industry, especially since your job relies on your creativity?
I'm very fortunate to be working with Beamdog, a company that seems to deal with its employees (or at least its writers) in a more humane fashion than seems to be standard in the industry. Crunch time for me has never come close to the 80 hour weeks I've heard others have to endure. My read of the situation is that the higher-ups have determined that driving the staff into the ground doesn't produce the best results, certainly not over an extended period of time. The team isn't huge, by videogame standards, and everyone has a role to play (if not two, three, or a dozen roles). For the sake of overall stability, it seems like Trent's made the decision to try and preserve the staff's usefulness over a longer term than just the next game that's shipping.
It should be noted that I'm only rarely involved in QA activities and never allowed anywhere near the implementation end of things, so I'm not sure how tense crunch gets over there.
It's a similar situation when it comes to the idea of "high stakes". As a business, I'm pretty sure Beamdog has more money going into and out of it than any other company I've been steadily employed by, but I've just never felt the sort of tension that made me think "If this doesn't work, the company is doomed." (Actually, that's not entirely true--as I think about it, things did get a little sketchy during that business with Atari.) It may be that the future viability of the company was on the line with some or all of the games we've developed, but if it is, that's something I'm largely insulated from. Which is fantastic, because I'm a highly strung guy who'd probably have a stroke if he started thinking in those terms. I'm not sure what Trent, Cam, Phil, or Scott--the guys who I think have the most invested in the company, both financially and personally--experience, but I've been largely insulated from the emotional impact of the negatives, while being invited to celebrate the positives.
As for burn-out and creativity... Well, there are days things come easy and there are days they don't. At the end of the day, the job is a job, and what has to get done has to get done. If I don't get it done, I'm going to lose it. So the butt goes in the seat and I do the best job I can. For myself, I'm a terrible self-starter; external deadlines are extremely helpful for me when it comes to getting things done.
2: You mentioned that coming in with strong writing skills may not be enough for the industry. What other skills would you suggest to anyone looking to enter the field?
Programming would probably be the first thing I'd suggest, but I suggest it from a not particularly educated vantage point.
If the question was about comics, which I know more about as an industry, I'd definitely say learn to draw, for the same reason I lean towards programming, which is this: the hardest thing you're going to come up against as a writer is getting someone to read your work, especially if you're angling to get work in a field that has a component other than words. It's much easier for a comics editor to look at a drawn comic than a comic script. I suspect--but this is a suspicion, so if you're thinking about acting on it I advise doing some due diligence and talking to some people who'd know better (Liam Esler springs to mind)--that it would be a similar situation for a producer, that experiencing even a basic videogame rather than trying to parse a plain dialogue tree would give you a better shot of getting them to consider your work. Again, suspicion, not fact.
Beyond that, networking is pretty much vital. I don't know about other games, but a lot of people have gotten paying work at Beamdog based on modding activities (not necessarily writing work, although I believe Liam comes out of the modding community and he has had the joy of writing stuff for the games, followed by the considerably more dubious joy of having me edit it.)
I don't know where you're located, but face to face interaction is almost always better than online. If you're not a sociable person, I feel for you (I really do, I'm terribly antisocial myself), but you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't try to get past that. I learned a lot from being part of a large writers group--not just about writing, but about how to interact with human beings engaged in the same kind of activities I was. Conventions, trade shows, get to as many of them as you can, be friendly, be polite, don't be stalker-y, and at some point, you may just be in the right place at the right time.
Case in point: It's not writing, but one of the new voice actors we've got working on Adventure Y got hired because I tweeted that anyone reading who had a demo tape should get it to me. Another one I happened to meet at a party a few weeks ago at Dave Gross' place. I talked to him off and on for a couple hours before I realized what he did for a living (voice acting, as it turns out, but he also has a sideline as a tour guide, which is what everyone had been talking about that evening) and thought, "This guy would be perfect for that character." I thought the character already had an actor locked in, so I took the guy's card and told him I'd put him forward for the next thing.
The next morning, I told Amber, "I met this guy last night and he'd be perfect for ________." Turns out Amber was going out to lunch with a couple of her friends that afternoon--and the same guy. She came back and said, "You're right. He *would* be perfect for _____." So we--by which I mean she, because she's a butt-kicking person who by god gets things done--shook a few trees, offered the guy originally cast for the character a different role, and voila, we've got the guy we think is the perfect ______ to play _______. Because I met him at a party at Dave Gross', the week before we locked in the final voice actors.
Sometimes it happens that way, for writing, acting, any creative endeavour. Someone is needed to get something done; the first person who gets that offer is usually the person who got it done last time (Mark Meer), the second is the person that person recommends if they can't do it ("Hey Mark, any suggestions for actors for this?"), and the third is the person who's at hand who looks like they could get it done. Knowing as many of the first people as you can is going to help, being close at hand and ready to jump on opportunities that arise will also help--though neither will help much if you can't actually do the job. And in the scenario where you got recommended, ****ing up on the job may impact the person who recommended you, so for the love of whatever gods you hold holy, be realistic about what you can manage and as soon as you realize you can't do a job, tell everyone asap and apologize.
I had a point when I started typing this segment. Hopefully you found one in there.
3: You've done both screenwriting and comics-- which helped you more with plotting videogames? Did anything surprise you in being the same in videogames as your previous fields of writing?
The biggest surprise for me and the videogames I'm writing is how much what I'd learned in other media *didn't* apply. I have a theory that screenwriting experience would be handy if I were in a more modern videogame, where the perspective is a bit more dynamic than the top down iso view of BG. As it is, with no detail in the figures, severe limitations in movement, no access to close-ups, no control over timing/pacing, non-violent physical action largely if not entirely left to the imagination of the player, especially during modal dialogue... Infinity Engine videogames are largely their own beast.
You do get some of lines voiced, which is a plus, and I guess my screenwriting background might help a bit with that. Games, comics, and film all rely to some extent on economy of language, though the style of Baldur's Gate tends towards more flowery, extensive verbiage. So there is some overlap there.
But honestly, the writing that prepped me most for this job was stuff I never got paid for: GMing my own table-top roleplaying games. As much as possible I write the game I'd like to play, or at least the sorts of characters I like to interact with when I played. As a GM, I felt it was my responsibility to give the players a good time--if 4 of them had a great night and 1 didn't, I felt like a failure. Now it's more likely to be 40 and 10 or 400 and 100, but the philosophy still guides me. Do everything I can to tell a story wile not raining on anyone's parade. Won't always work, but that's the goal, every time.
So @AndrewFoley , As a developer what's your opinion on goblins and their role in fantasy settings?
I would love to get into this in some kind of depth, but I really don't have time, so, super-briefly:
-I have certain issues with the idea of entire species existing for what often seems like the sole purpose of allowing "good" characters to engage in mass slaughter without having to confront the moral implications of having just cut down numerous sentient beings who probably never really had a chance.
-On a game mechanics vs. logic level, the fact that after 19 goblins have been slain, the 20th one will continue to attack rather than do the obvious thing and run like hell really pushes my "Oh come ON" button. This behaviour is hardly restricted to goblins, and there are at least a couple of valid reasons this occurs, but from storytelling/character POV, it bothers me.
-I'll be the first to admit this is silly, but I get irrationally frustrated when goblins, orcs, and other races--sentient species with their own languages and cultures--are referred to as monsters.
On the whole, I think any creature with its own language and culture should be presumed to be a character rather than a monster and accorded a certain amount of respect (certainly from a game/story's creators), even if the character is unpleasant and is ultimately going to die by the player's hand. Even though we're talking about fictional beings, the existence of masses of easily killed (both physically and morally), by-their-very-nature evil creatures.--again, strictly on a personal level and with the understanding that there are valid mechanical/resource allocation reasons for things to be this way--it kind of depresses me.
That wasn't as super-brief as I'd hoped and nope, I really didn't have time for it. Oh well, it's done now.
All this reminds me of a campaign I was DM'ing a few years back where the players entered a portal to an unknown Prime Material Plane and when they got there they discovered that in that world Orcs and Goblins were the civilized races while the "normal" races were considered barbaric monsters.
It took them some time and led to some quite good moments as they tried to convince the goblinoids they were just interplanar adventurers and not murderous barbarian humans, elves and halflings
When they finally returned to their own world they never treated a goblinoid as a simple mindless monster again.
So @AndrewFoley , As a developer what's your opinion on goblins and their role in fantasy settings?
I would love to get into this in some kind of depth, but I really don't have time, so, super-briefly:
-I have certain issues with the idea of entire species existing for what often seems like the sole purpose of allowing "good" characters to engage in mass slaughter without having to confront the moral implications of having just cut down numerous sentient beings who probably never really had a chance.
-On a game mechanics vs. logic level, the fact that after 19 goblins have been slain, the 20th one will continue to attack rather than do the obvious thing and run like hell really pushes my "Oh come ON" button. This behaviour is hardly restricted to goblins, and there are at least a couple of valid reasons this occurs, but from storytelling/character POV, it bothers me.
-I'll be the first to admit this is silly, but I get irrationally frustrated when goblins, orcs, and other races--sentient species with their own languages and cultures--are referred to as monsters.
On the whole, I think any creature with its own language and culture should be presumed to be a character rather than a monster and accorded a certain amount of respect (certainly from a game/story's creators), even if the character is unpleasant and is ultimately going to die by the player's hand. Even though we're talking about fictional beings, the existence of masses of easily killed (both physically and morally), by-their-very-nature evil creatures.--again, strictly on a personal level and with the understanding that there are valid mechanical/resource allocation reasons for things to be this way--it kind of depresses me.
That wasn't as super-brief as I'd hoped and nope, I really didn't have time for it. Oh well, it's done now.
If we are going to think of sentience and monsters... Let's fit the monsters social dynamics to their actions. AND would humans do it i.e. would it be far fetched. So...
So these are orcs in my head...
You have a lifespan of 15 years. Oldest Orc you know lived to 16 summers. You learn and develop at the same rate as a human apart from having amazing strength. You do not have the time to study, brute force is all you use to solve your many issues. Bullying is rife and fear of you is something you use to control others and what controls you. When an intruder is perceived, you kill it no questions asked, because you will not understand the answer even if you knew the question to ask in the first place. Most of the time when your not being bashed by your betters or bashing around your lowers you are either eating or (if full) humping anything that moves, this includes your brother, your sisters uncle or your sisters sister... While your sister, whom you have married, is not watching of course. Eating and humping are your main interests and hobbies. (Plus your approach to mating and eating is pretty much identical.) Luckily this means plenty of new young Orclings. Fatherhood and motherhood is much looked forward to by orckind as delivering another green bod to boss about.
Goblins.
Goblins are hoarders. They hoard everything. Most treasure found in buckets and discarded barrels were placed there by goblins. As a goblin you know where everything should be. With the intellectual property of an enlightened 4 year old fed raw coffee and maple syrup you react with extreme provication at anything that should not be there... Luckily, due to the fact that there are still places of quiet calm in the underdark, and also that goblins are born usually in litters of 8, reaching maturity after only a year, Goblin kind has yet to go extinct. Although cases of caverns covered in goblin dead are actually the results of fallen stalactites or rockfalls than passing adventurers.
...
See. Easy.
...
I would also like to be a writer. But I don't know anyone to socialise or network with... @AndrewFoley invite me too a party! We could talk about elevating sausage rolls to a playable race... Pleeeeeaaaase!
I'm all for using social dynamics to inform character behaviour. Your view of goblin and orcish societies is pretty close to mine, in general. My problem is when room isn't given for people--players, DMs, whoever--to work with specifics that *aren't* representative of the typical (insert race of your choice here), at least not without violating the rules. Humans, elves, and gnomes can be good, neutral, or evil. I believe should be an option for all sentient races because, well, they're sentient. They have the capacity to make a choice between good and evil, or so I'd like to think.
So far as I know, in 2ed D&D, goblins don't have that option. They are inherently evil, regardless of their backgrounds--they're literally born that way. And because of that, a good-aligned paladin would be justified in slaughtering goblin babies. On a personal level, I find that problematic.
@AndrewFoley I tend to think the whole 'orcs' thing smacks of old Real World prejudice and 'othering' of non-Europeans, which like the real world actually, is explained by stressing the 'savage' nature and actions. Its a really uncomfortable parallel actually, when you remember how many African and New World indigenous peoples were portrayed as cannibals, devil worshippers (missionaries would explain that the local religion was demon worship for example), and completely without culture or civilization. Both were widely portrayed (and still are; feel free to read how even professionals describe the Williams sisters vs Sharapova, and remember both are physically imposing players) as being physically gifted but incurably stupid; this was a convinient excuse for slavery, exploitation, and land appropriation.
I have similar problems with many fantasy authors use of real world 'inspiration' (aka pedantic racism), but the orc/goblin thing is pretty insidious; there have been fantasy universes that don't uses humanoid monsters, and there have been good representations of humanoid races that don't use this offensive trope. I think this is getting better though, really. 3.5 had material that presents villainous humanoids as being actual characters, and of course we had Eberron, with its Paladin and Druid orcs.
One thing that definately seems absurd though in 3.5 is how races with a colossal -2 intelligence penalty on average are somehow required to be borderline mentally disabled; -2 to each mental ability score is hardly going to result in the average person being an iretrievable moron. Equally intelligent populations can develope in very different ways, so I'm fine with difference, but -2 intelligence doesn't make you a brain dead savage.
A good-aligned paladin would be justified in slaughtering goblin babies. On a personal level, I find that problematic.
When you poor salt on slugs, do you ever stop yourself and go "How old is this slug? Am I killing a baby slug? If it is a baby slug... I better not kill it. It has a choice not to eat my lettuce and should be given a chance to do the right thing and eat troublesome weeds!"
Now a goblin is more troublesome than a slug I grant you, but I wager the human mind will never be able to comprehend the mind of a goblin in the same way as it cannot comprehend the mind of a slug.
Likewise the slug will always eat the lettuce because it is a slug and the goblin will always eat the kitten because it is a goblin.
It reminds me of the Chinese tale of the scorpion.
I believe in the fantasy world goblins are thought of as knife wielding slugs...
...
Only on this forum. This kind of conversation only happens here...
*Anduin runs outside with his fork and knife to battle once again the evil hordes of slugs*
You can take my sunflowers! But you'll never take my radishes! Raaargh!
When you poor salt on slugs, do you ever stop yourself and go "How old is this slug? Am I killing a baby slug? If it is a baby slug... I better not kill it. It has a choice not to eat my lettuce and should be given a chance to do the right thing and eat troublesome weeds!"
For the record, I don't pour salt on slugs and can't see why I would unless they were doing something actively harmful.
But if I was the sort who liked to pour salt on slugs, you're right, I probably wouldn't give much thought to its age (even though I expect an infant goblin would be easier to identify than an infant slug, just on a relative size basis).
At least, I wouldn't think about it until the slug started screaming at me to please stop killing it in a language I actually understood. At which point I'd have to seriously revise my perspective on slugs.
Now a goblin is more troublesome than a slug I grant you, but I wager the human mind will never be able to comprehend the mind of a goblin in the same way as it cannot comprehend the mind of a slug.
I suggest the human mind could comprehend the mind of a goblin in a way it could never comprehend the mind of a slug, if goblins were, like slugs, actually real. Why? Because unlike a slug, the goblin has the ability to communicate in a language a human can understand. The goblin can tell us what's on its mind directly, like other people can.
Taking it outside the game, I can understand why a player might not want to consider the lives and feelings of individual goblins--it could certainly take a lot of fun out of massacring them, especially if you want to identify as a good guy.
Likewise the slug will always eat the lettuce because it is a slug and the goblin will always eat the kitten because it is a goblin.
No, it won't always eat the kitten. It may always *want* to eat the kitten because that's in its nature, but there are a variety of scenarios in which it won't happen, because unlike the slug, goblins are sentient, self-aware creatures. Threatening the slug won't get it to stop eating the lettuce, because it's incapable of understanding. Threatening the goblin might on some occasions prevent it from eating the kitten, because goblins are capable of understanding language, rudimentary logic, and basic cause and effect in a way that animals/monsters can't/won't. Because animals are animals and monsters are monsters, but goblins are, at the end of the day, people.
I love you @AndrewFoley as you just created a new character to start a story. A paladin who killed goblins finally meets a goblin who begs for mercy in common (unluckily for the other goblins previously dispatched they only spoke goblin). This changes his perspective... On a great many things.
As for killing slugs with salt. I have done this in the past to save my vegetables. However, to get rid of them properly, encourage toads and frogs into your garden. They will actively hunt them out... Slug pellets.. Basically poison is also an easy alternative... However the poison can hurt other animals and children so salt seems kinder to the garden.
Yes, but it's been awhile. I think I've got a signed copy of the first print collection kicking around here somewhere after Tarol was a guest at a local con.
One of these days I might work up the nerve and technical skill to post my TOKEN GOBLIN minicomic, "The Art of The Matter", up around here. It's about the first goblin to reach the rank of inspector in the city watch/police force. Well, the series I'd write with him would be about that; this 11 page story was more ruthlessly mocking modern art and establishing/exploring the Token Goblin world a bit.
Comments
The obvious answer would be Nat Jones. He's certainly got the look down: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/0/9241/230075-19238-nat-jones.JPG
But he's really a big ol' softie.
Maybe Phil. Watching him play Bort Flametoot in the Beamdog D&D game has given me a new perspective on him, and a quick google search suspiciously turns up no images of him at all. That's a mighty low digital profile, which a man with a taste for human flesh would probably do well to maintain...
But no. Phil's far too laid back to be doing something that illegal.
No, I think if we're going to be looking for cannibalistic tendencies, we need to look to the one person in office who seems to genuinely like people. Perhaps she likes them a little too much, if you know what I mean. Who do I speak of...?
http://i0.wp.com/frabjousdave.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Amber-Scott.jpg
Amber Scott. Oh, she seems friendly enough--how else will she get close enough to determine whether you meet her strict dietary criteria? Look at the darkness behind those eyes, that demonic, bloodthirsty sneer barely concealed by the seemingly affable smile...
Yes, my friends. THIS is the face of a woman who's had a taste of long pig--and liked it.
There was one thing I wanted to do, but it wasn't for BGIIEE. If we could've pulled it off, it would've been a Cloverfield street level view of the biggest monsters available going to war with each other, just beating the living crap out of each other in a rolling, highly destructive battle through a city the PC was stuck in.
Unfortunately, the Cloverfield-style effect I wanted to get is predicated on a worm's-eye view of events. While we're constrained to the top down iso view, my War of Incredibly Tough to Kill Giant Monsters Hellbent on Destroying Also Nearly Impossibly to Hurt Giant Monsters goes away to we're working from something closer to an FPS view or I come up with the elements needed to make it work in another medium.
But can you imagine it. You're walking along and the SHRAKABOOM!, a half-dead red dragon comes smashing through the building in front of you, bounces of the streets a couple times. A black dragon swoops overhead, looking for another target. The red dragon hauls itself halfway to its feet when BOOM!--A storm giant comes careening through another building, tackling it down to the cobblestones you just barely managed to dive off of split second ago...
I can imagine it. Imagining it as a game, maybe not so much.
First, BGEE and Pathfinder writer Dave Gross had a little chat with me while I had a lengthy chat back, talking about various writing-related topics. The result can be found at his site, here: http://frabjousdave.com/creative-colleagues-andrew-foley/
And the Boss, Mr. Oster himself, talked to the Stuff That Fascinates Us guys here:
Am I right in understanding your tweet this way: you've tried PS:T and in the end have decided to pass.
What do you think about the game more precisely? Why is this one going to be a pass?
He is making a joke in reference to the Torment in the title. Instead of being tormented the protagonist will be feeling average throughout his experience.
It was funny in my head at the time...
I've never actually played PST, it came out when I didn't have money to buy it or time to play it, and I'm a little worried about trying it now, to be honest. It seems like it'd be right up my alley, storywise, and it's got a stellar reputation, to the point that I'd almost certainly be going into it with the sort of unrealistic expectations that frequently lead to... well, not disappointment, more a general "Huh. Well, that's definitely a thing that exists" response.
Networking is a huge part of most work-for-hire writers' careers. It sucks, but that's the way it is. I got my job at Beamdog because Dave Gross recommended me for it (my background is in comics and screenwriting, not videogames.) Amber got called in because I recommended her (I'm 99% sure that if she hadn't had other obligations at the time, Dave would have recommended her for the job I got.) Once you're in the door, it's on you to prove you deserve to be there (as Amber and I hope I have done and are doing), but just getting in the door--just *finding* the door--that's hard. That's probably why you've seen so many writers that started as programmers--by being programmers, they're well-positioned to fill a creative role when it needs filling. There's at least a couple of reasons for that. First, programmers have actual, more or less quantifiable skills that game creation absolutely requires. Anyone can write something that resembles a story; I could never in a million years do what Scott Brooks, Cam Tofer, or pretty much anyone else employed by Beamdog can do to get something other than letters onto a screen. Second, it's easy for a writer to say "And then fights an army of seven thousand orcs, goblins, lemures, and displacer beasts", but making that actually happen in a game will take I don't even like to think about how many programming hours.
If you want a career in videogames, programming's definitely the place to be--that's where the biggest demand for workers is always going to be until the machines develop sentience and destroy us all. The ones who admitted ignorance were wiser than the ones who said no. Videogame writers absolutely do exist, but as I said, it's not an easy field to break into. Last I heard (which was a few years back), Bioware was willing to consider hiring writers based on samples. I've seen a couple of ads for positions at Riot Games and EA pop up on LinkedIn in the last year or so, though they tend to want people with experience to apply (that might be another reason programmers make the jump into writing--they create their own indie game and use it as a calling card to get other work. That's how things tend to work in comics.)
It can be done, but it's a longshot, especially if all you're bringing to the table is a facility with plotting and dialogue. Then again, carving out pretty much any sustainable writing career is a longshot. If videogames are your passion, I'd say go for it. You may never get where you want to be, but at least you'll be doing something you enjoy doing while you try.
1: How do you avoid "burn-out" in the high-stakes and often crunch-time focused game industry, especially since your job relies on your creativity?
2: You mentioned that coming in with strong writing skills may not be enough for the industry. What other skills would you suggest to anyone looking to enter the field?
3: You've done both screenwriting and comics-- which helped you more with plotting videogames? Did anything surprise you in being the same in videogames as your previous fields of writing?
It should be noted that I'm only rarely involved in QA activities and never allowed anywhere near the implementation end of things, so I'm not sure how tense crunch gets over there.
It's a similar situation when it comes to the idea of "high stakes". As a business, I'm pretty sure Beamdog has more money going into and out of it than any other company I've been steadily employed by, but I've just never felt the sort of tension that made me think "If this doesn't work, the company is doomed." (Actually, that's not entirely true--as I think about it, things did get a little sketchy during that business with Atari.) It may be that the future viability of the company was on the line with some or all of the games we've developed, but if it is, that's something I'm largely insulated from. Which is fantastic, because I'm a highly strung guy who'd probably have a stroke if he started thinking in those terms. I'm not sure what Trent, Cam, Phil, or Scott--the guys who I think have the most invested in the company, both financially and personally--experience, but I've been largely insulated from the emotional impact of the negatives, while being invited to celebrate the positives.
As for burn-out and creativity... Well, there are days things come easy and there are days they don't. At the end of the day, the job is a job, and what has to get done has to get done. If I don't get it done, I'm going to lose it. So the butt goes in the seat and I do the best job I can. For myself, I'm a terrible self-starter; external deadlines are extremely helpful for me when it comes to getting things done. Programming would probably be the first thing I'd suggest, but I suggest it from a not particularly educated vantage point.
If the question was about comics, which I know more about as an industry, I'd definitely say learn to draw, for the same reason I lean towards programming, which is this: the hardest thing you're going to come up against as a writer is getting someone to read your work, especially if you're angling to get work in a field that has a component other than words. It's much easier for a comics editor to look at a drawn comic than a comic script. I suspect--but this is a suspicion, so if you're thinking about acting on it I advise doing some due diligence and talking to some people who'd know better (Liam Esler springs to mind)--that it would be a similar situation for a producer, that experiencing even a basic videogame rather than trying to parse a plain dialogue tree would give you a better shot of getting them to consider your work. Again, suspicion, not fact.
Beyond that, networking is pretty much vital. I don't know about other games, but a lot of people have gotten paying work at Beamdog based on modding activities (not necessarily writing work, although I believe Liam comes out of the modding community and he has had the joy of writing stuff for the games, followed by the considerably more dubious joy of having me edit it.)
I don't know where you're located, but face to face interaction is almost always better than online. If you're not a sociable person, I feel for you (I really do, I'm terribly antisocial myself), but you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't try to get past that. I learned a lot from being part of a large writers group--not just about writing, but about how to interact with human beings engaged in the same kind of activities I was. Conventions, trade shows, get to as many of them as you can, be friendly, be polite, don't be stalker-y, and at some point, you may just be in the right place at the right time.
Case in point: It's not writing, but one of the new voice actors we've got working on Adventure Y got hired because I tweeted that anyone reading who had a demo tape should get it to me. Another one I happened to meet at a party a few weeks ago at Dave Gross' place. I talked to him off and on for a couple hours before I realized what he did for a living (voice acting, as it turns out, but he also has a sideline as a tour guide, which is what everyone had been talking about that evening) and thought, "This guy would be perfect for that character." I thought the character already had an actor locked in, so I took the guy's card and told him I'd put him forward for the next thing.
The next morning, I told Amber, "I met this guy last night and he'd be perfect for ________." Turns out Amber was going out to lunch with a couple of her friends that afternoon--and the same guy. She came back and said, "You're right. He *would* be perfect for _____." So we--by which I mean she, because she's a butt-kicking person who by god gets things done--shook a few trees, offered the guy originally cast for the character a different role, and voila, we've got the guy we think is the perfect ______ to play _______. Because I met him at a party at Dave Gross', the week before we locked in the final voice actors.
Sometimes it happens that way, for writing, acting, any creative endeavour. Someone is needed to get something done; the first person who gets that offer is usually the person who got it done last time (Mark Meer), the second is the person that person recommends if they can't do it ("Hey Mark, any suggestions for actors for this?"), and the third is the person who's at hand who looks like they could get it done. Knowing as many of the first people as you can is going to help, being close at hand and ready to jump on opportunities that arise will also help--though neither will help much if you can't actually do the job. And in the scenario where you got recommended, ****ing up on the job may impact the person who recommended you, so for the love of whatever gods you hold holy, be realistic about what you can manage and as soon as you realize you can't do a job, tell everyone asap and apologize.
I had a point when I started typing this segment. Hopefully you found one in there. The biggest surprise for me and the videogames I'm writing is how much what I'd learned in other media *didn't* apply. I have a theory that screenwriting experience would be handy if I were in a more modern videogame, where the perspective is a bit more dynamic than the top down iso view of BG. As it is, with no detail in the figures, severe limitations in movement, no access to close-ups, no control over timing/pacing, non-violent physical action largely if not entirely left to the imagination of the player, especially during modal dialogue... Infinity Engine videogames are largely their own beast.
You do get some of lines voiced, which is a plus, and I guess my screenwriting background might help a bit with that. Games, comics, and film all rely to some extent on economy of language, though the style of Baldur's Gate tends towards more flowery, extensive verbiage. So there is some overlap there.
But honestly, the writing that prepped me most for this job was stuff I never got paid for: GMing my own table-top roleplaying games. As much as possible I write the game I'd like to play, or at least the sorts of characters I like to interact with when I played. As a GM, I felt it was my responsibility to give the players a good time--if 4 of them had a great night and 1 didn't, I felt like a failure. Now it's more likely to be 40 and 10 or 400 and 100, but the philosophy still guides me. Do everything I can to tell a story wile not raining on anyone's parade. Won't always work, but that's the goal, every time.
-I have certain issues with the idea of entire species existing for what often seems like the sole purpose of allowing "good" characters to engage in mass slaughter without having to confront the moral implications of having just cut down numerous sentient beings who probably never really had a chance.
-On a game mechanics vs. logic level, the fact that after 19 goblins have been slain, the 20th one will continue to attack rather than do the obvious thing and run like hell really pushes my "Oh come ON" button. This behaviour is hardly restricted to goblins, and there are at least a couple of valid reasons this occurs, but from storytelling/character POV, it bothers me.
-I'll be the first to admit this is silly, but I get irrationally frustrated when goblins, orcs, and other races--sentient species with their own languages and cultures--are referred to as monsters.
On the whole, I think any creature with its own language and culture should be presumed to be a character rather than a monster and accorded a certain amount of respect (certainly from a game/story's creators), even if the character is unpleasant and is ultimately going to die by the player's hand. Even though we're talking about fictional beings, the existence of masses of easily killed (both physically and morally), by-their-very-nature evil creatures.--again, strictly on a personal level and with the understanding that there are valid mechanical/resource allocation reasons for things to be this way--it kind of depresses me.
That wasn't as super-brief as I'd hoped and nope, I really didn't have time for it. Oh well, it's done now.
It took them some time and led to some quite good moments as they tried to convince the goblinoids they were just interplanar adventurers and not murderous barbarian humans, elves and halflings
When they finally returned to their own world they never treated a goblinoid as a simple mindless monster again.
So these are orcs in my head...
You have a lifespan of 15 years. Oldest Orc you know lived to 16 summers. You learn and develop at the same rate as a human apart from having amazing strength. You do not have the time to study, brute force is all you use to solve your many issues. Bullying is rife and fear of you is something you use to control others and what controls you. When an intruder is perceived, you kill it no questions asked, because you will not understand the answer even if you knew the question to ask in the first place. Most of the time when your not being bashed by your betters or bashing around your lowers you are either eating or (if full) humping anything that moves, this includes your brother, your sisters uncle or your sisters sister... While your sister, whom you have married, is not watching of course. Eating and humping are your main interests and hobbies. (Plus your approach to mating and eating is pretty much identical.) Luckily this means plenty of new young Orclings. Fatherhood and motherhood is much looked forward to by orckind as delivering another green bod to boss about.
Goblins.
Goblins are hoarders. They hoard everything. Most treasure found in buckets and discarded barrels were placed there by goblins. As a goblin you know where everything should be. With the intellectual property of an enlightened 4 year old fed raw coffee and maple syrup you react with extreme provication at anything that should not be there... Luckily, due to the fact that there are still places of quiet calm in the underdark, and also that goblins are born usually in litters of 8, reaching maturity after only a year, Goblin kind has yet to go extinct. Although cases of caverns covered in goblin dead are actually the results of fallen stalactites or rockfalls than passing adventurers.
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See. Easy.
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I would also like to be a writer. But I don't know anyone to socialise or network with... @AndrewFoley invite me too a party! We could talk about elevating sausage rolls to a playable race... Pleeeeeaaaase!
So far as I know, in 2ed D&D, goblins don't have that option. They are inherently evil, regardless of their backgrounds--they're literally born that way. And because of that, a good-aligned paladin would be justified in slaughtering goblin babies. On a personal level, I find that problematic.
I have similar problems with many fantasy authors use of real world 'inspiration' (aka pedantic racism), but the orc/goblin thing is pretty insidious; there have been fantasy universes that don't uses humanoid monsters, and there have been good representations of humanoid races that don't use this offensive trope. I think this is getting better though, really. 3.5 had material that presents villainous humanoids as being actual characters, and of course we had Eberron, with its Paladin and Druid orcs.
One thing that definately seems absurd though in 3.5 is how races with a colossal -2 intelligence penalty on average are somehow required to be borderline mentally disabled; -2 to each mental ability score is hardly going to result in the average person being an iretrievable moron. Equally intelligent populations can develope in very different ways, so I'm fine with difference, but -2 intelligence doesn't make you a brain dead savage.
Scotch eggs should also be considered as a playable race. When you poor salt on slugs, do you ever stop yourself and go "How old is this slug? Am I killing a baby slug? If it is a baby slug... I better not kill it. It has a choice not to eat my lettuce and should be given a chance to do the right thing and eat troublesome weeds!"
Now a goblin is more troublesome than a slug I grant you, but I wager the human mind will never be able to comprehend the mind of a goblin in the same way as it cannot comprehend the mind of a slug.
Likewise the slug will always eat the lettuce because it is a slug and the goblin will always eat the kitten because it is a goblin.
It reminds me of the Chinese tale of the scorpion.
I believe in the fantasy world goblins are thought of as knife wielding slugs...
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Only on this forum. This kind of conversation only happens here...
*Anduin runs outside with his fork and knife to battle once again the evil hordes of slugs*
You can take my sunflowers! But you'll never take my radishes! Raaargh!
But if I was the sort who liked to pour salt on slugs, you're right, I probably wouldn't give much thought to its age (even though I expect an infant goblin would be easier to identify than an infant slug, just on a relative size basis).
At least, I wouldn't think about it until the slug started screaming at me to please stop killing it in a language I actually understood. At which point I'd have to seriously revise my perspective on slugs. I suggest the human mind could comprehend the mind of a goblin in a way it could never comprehend the mind of a slug, if goblins were, like slugs, actually real. Why? Because unlike a slug, the goblin has the ability to communicate in a language a human can understand. The goblin can tell us what's on its mind directly, like other people can.
Taking it outside the game, I can understand why a player might not want to consider the lives and feelings of individual goblins--it could certainly take a lot of fun out of massacring them, especially if you want to identify as a good guy. No, it won't always eat the kitten. It may always *want* to eat the kitten because that's in its nature, but there are a variety of scenarios in which it won't happen, because unlike the slug, goblins are sentient, self-aware creatures. Threatening the slug won't get it to stop eating the lettuce, because it's incapable of understanding. Threatening the goblin might on some occasions prevent it from eating the kitten, because goblins are capable of understanding language, rudimentary logic, and basic cause and effect in a way that animals/monsters can't/won't. Because animals are animals and monsters are monsters, but goblins are, at the end of the day, people. Nah. They happen around the office too, more often than you might think.
As for killing slugs with salt. I have done this in the past to save my vegetables. However, to get rid of them properly, encourage toads and frogs into your garden. They will actively hunt them out... Slug pellets.. Basically poison is also an easy alternative... However the poison can hurt other animals and children so salt seems kinder to the garden.
I don't hate slugs. I just love cauliflower.
I don't hate goblins. I just love kittens / children.
For lunch.
One of these days I might work up the nerve and technical skill to post my TOKEN GOBLIN minicomic, "The Art of The Matter", up around here. It's about the first goblin to reach the rank of inspector in the city watch/police force. Well, the series I'd write with him would be about that; this 11 page story was more ruthlessly mocking modern art and establishing/exploring the Token Goblin world a bit.
Ah, bugger. Wrong medium. It was an amazing performance, though. Take my word for it.