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Baldur's Gate meets Heroes of Might and Magic 3

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Comments

  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    Omg, almost! Almost! So clooose! Just 3 points more! Don't give up xD

    JuliusBorisovlolienCrevsDaak
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    Grond0 said:

    heroes is that one of them presumably had a pair of angels wings (though I didn't recover them). You've obviously ensured that towns don't have the fly spell, but I'm not sure whether you were intending to leave open the option of flying by item use.

    Yes, I intended that. I disabled fly, town portal and dimension door on purpose.
    Because with these spells enabled every map becomes a cheese cake in the late game.

    There is no way the A.I. can beat a human who uses those spells even if the AI has the spells too.

    However I did not disable the Angels Wings on purpose, that's correct too.
    Because they are rare enough that only 1 or 2 at most heroes will have them.
    And I consider that a special challenge to catch such a hero.

    And I left waterwalk enabled. And I encourage the use of waterwalk very strongly. It's absolutely not game breaking as the other spells I mentioned above. You can use waterwalk in some key locations where it will give you a strategic advantage.

    However, the three other spells can be used anywhere.

    JuliusBorisov
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    There might also be the possibility that scholars teach dimension door, fly or town portal. I am not sure if that can happen. I would have to check.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,461
    I don't remember ever getting one of those from a scholar. They can be gained in encounter spots sometimes though - I wondered if the dragon utopia was a potential source for the flying hero.

    JuliusBorisov
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    edited February 2017
    Okay I tested around a bit with the scholars.

    They cannot teach spells that I have disabled map-wide.

    However, I could enable the spells map-wide, then remove them from each town individually, and then the scholars would have the chance to teach those spells.

    The probability of teaching them would still be quite low. Although the player could increase the chance, by having eight secondary skills on expert and by having all spells except the ones he wants (e.g. dimension door, town portal, fly).

    And then the scholar would either teach a primary skill or one of the spells that the hero does not know yet.
    Also the hero needs the secondary skill wisdom on advanced (for town portal) respectively expert (for dimension door and fly).

    But as I said as long as I have disabled the spells map-wide, globally, the scholars cannot teach them anyway.

    JuliusBorisovGrond0lolienCrevsDaak
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    You know what is strange. I also encountered enemy heroes that could fly. And then I defeated them (actually defeated them, not just making them run away). And I did not get any Angel Wings from them.

    Now how would that be possible?
    The only explanation I would have is that my inventory was full so I could not pick them up.

    lolienCrevsDaak
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,461
    Shandyr said:

    You know what is strange. I also encountered enemy heroes that could fly. And then I defeated them (actually defeated them, not just making them run away). And I did not get any Angel Wings from them.

    Now how would that be possible?
    The only explanation I would have is that my inventory was full so I could not pick them up.

    See my above comment about dragon utopia?

  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    Grond0 said:

    Shandyr said:

    You know what is strange. I also encountered enemy heroes that could fly. And then I defeated them (actually defeated them, not just making them run away). And I did not get any Angel Wings from them.

    Now how would that be possible?
    The only explanation I would have is that my inventory was full so I could not pick them up.

    See my above comment about dragon utopia?
    Yes, but Dragon Utopias give you the Angel Wings, don't they?

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,461
    They can, but I thought there was a chance of learning spells there as well (or am I thinking about heroes 4)?

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,461
    I briefly looked at the starting positions for the other factions. None looked that promising, but I decided there might be some mileage trying to use the creature generators of the stronghold faction. They're quite exposed to the AI though, so building up forces didn't seem likely to work. Attacking and destroying red early on worked reasonably well, but was slow and I abandoned the game in a winning position rather than complete it. I'll have one more go at that to see if I can speed things up (one problem with that game was I never managed to learn diplomacy and had virtually no neutral stacks join).

    ShandyrCrevsDaaklolienJuliusBorisov
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    Grond0 said:

    They can, but I thought there was a chance of learning spells there as well (or am I thinking about heroes 4)?

    http://heroes.thelazy.net/wiki/Dragon_Utopia
    As far as I know you do not learn spells at a Dragon Utopia in HoMM3.

    Julius played the Dungeon faction when he made his record.

    lolienJuliusBorisov
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,461
    edited February 2017
    Shandyr said:

    http://heroes.thelazy.net/wiki/Dragon_Utopia
    As far as I know you do not learn spells at a Dragon Utopia in HoMM3.

    OK - I was probably thinking of the spell books (which you can get there) and would allow you to cast those spells normally rather than relying on artifacts duplicating the ability (such as angel wings).
    Julius played the Dungeon faction when he made his record.
    Right - but shifting to use of castle creatures is no longer such an attractive option now that you've nerfed all but one of the castle towns. I have anyway restarted with the stronghold and made some decent early progress with that - still a long way to go though, so I can't yet judge whether it will be a competitive run B).

    JuliusBorisovCrevsDaaklolien
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,433
    I may replay this map in the newest version (if I get it) - you say Castle creatures are nerfed, but in the same time I already have experiece with this map. Let's see what the score will be :smiley:

    Grond0CrevsDaaklolien
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    Well the stronghold position does have that advantage of the many creature generators. Actually I have been a bit worrying about that. Because you can grow quite large an army if you check them each week.

    On the other hand I did want to model the bandit camp. And the dwellings are part of that.

    Oh btw I did switch off Tome of Earth and Tome of Air Magic for exactly that reason that they provide those spells.

    lolien
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,461
    edited February 2017
    Shandyr said:

    Oh btw I did switch off Tome of Earth and Tome of Air Magic for exactly that reason that they provide those spells.

    Right you are - I saw the Tome of Water Magic in the previous game and didn't realise you'd blocked Earth and Air :). I also wouldn't worry about the stronghold generators. They're a nice feature to give you a chance of making good early progress, but even thousands of them wouldn't be as useful against a high level hero as alternative stacks.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,433
    Quick feedback. Starting as Fortress on Impossible (200%) is a no-go. Just check: the initial guardians are impossible to kill, which makes this starting point weaker in times if compared to other postions:






    ShandyrCrevsDaaklolien
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    edited February 2017
    I did play on Fortress already and on Impossible as always.

    It is very bad luck that they're halflings down there and that the other stack is centaur captains.

    The size of the initial monster stacks are around the same (more or less) for each starting position.

    This could also have happened at the Dungeon starting position too for example.

    I actually think you can beat them but it will be very hard. It will delay your game quite considerably.
    You do have the two gnoll dwellings.

    I would go for the centaur captains. Especially when you have a few gorgons in the party from the gorgon dwelling. It should be possible, but yes, it is a tough challenge.

    Edit: Why does your hero only have 1 serpent fly?

    CrevsDaak
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,433
    edited February 2017
    Yes, it will delay the game and thus decrease overall chances majorly.

    To get gorgons you first have to defeat guardians, which is quite hard with only gnolls in the army. And again it will delay the game. There're no mines, mills on this area. Nearly no gold.

    1 serpent fly - it is a scout (and flies come from a hero).

    ShandyrCrevsDaaklolien
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    edited February 2017
    Hmm, yes and it could have been even worse. Imagine both stacks would have been halflings! Ugh!

    Okay, I am going to redude the size of the initial stacks a bit.

    Personally I like those challenges. Because yes it will delay your game which in turn will reduce your score in the end. However, the delay will let the computer get even stronger, and personally I love that. I love those very tough challenges.

    But they may not be to everyone's liking. I understand that.

    So the inital monsters stack size is currently around 90~100
    Should I reduce it to be around 70?

    JuliusBorisov
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,433
    I'd say just make so that these guardians are not 1) archers 2) improved units.

    I've restarted and got simple skeletons in both places. Also, instead of the gorgon dwelling the new dwelling was for the 2nd tier. I think you need to make things consistant here.







    I too like challenges and don't mind them. But the thing here is that different starting postions are not equal (this was the point Grond0 asked above), - or may not be equal if spawns are bad.

    ShandyrlolienCrevsDaak
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    edited February 2017
    There is no option to say "no archer units" or "no upgraded units" when I choose random monsters.

    Yes the dwelling down there is a random fortress dwelling.

    One thing that we ought to consider here:

    I think your point of view is more than valid for multiplayer. However, if we are talking about singleplayer then I already said I do not mind unbalanced starting positions.

    Because you are just playing against the AI. And the AI is well... excuse me for saying it but it *is* stupid xD

    So I think unbalanced starting positions are not a problem for singleplayer games, but for multiplayer ones of course they are even more so.

    What is your opinion on this?

    JuliusBorisovlolienCrevsDaak
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,433
    I can't stop thinking about multiplayer, can I? Once I try, there's no way back.

    Well, in this particular case I would stop trying Fortress if I didn't read your note about "it could have been even worse". From that, I figured out the guardians are random, so I gave it another go. And with the second attempt, things look much better - on the second week I now have a sawmill, and a sawmill for Fortress means everything.

    I don't know how many players think the same and how many players would like to try again with the same town after seeing the what-turned-to-be-very-hard-guardians. It's for singleplayer, not multiplayer. Maybe it's my no-reload nature speaks inside.

    Maybe make the north guardian not a random monster, but define the creature?

    ShandyrlolienGrond0CrevsDaak
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    edited February 2017
    Also keep in mind that you are playing on "Impossible". I could anytime argue that "Impossible" should live up to its name and that you chose it :tongue:

    One tip for you: I know that wood is the heart and soul of the Fortress . If you invest in a boat, even though it costs a lot of wood, it may pay off ;)

    Anyway I now put some extra resources on some starting positions. I know some can be very hard.

    JuliusBorisovlolienCrevsDaak
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    edited February 2017
    And that said, I know that crystal is the heart and soul of the Stronghold and I bore that also in mind when creating the map.

    JuliusBorisovlolienCrevsDaak
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,461
    I'm with you Shandyr - I don't think it's a bad idea at all to have variations in the difficulty for starting factions. I did also briefly look at the Fortress before going for the Stronghold and didn't think it was by any means impossible - though I agree it's not an easy start.

    There's a significant degree of luck in most heroes 3 games in relation to, e.g. types of creatures in random stacks, whether they have a thirst for glory, available choice of hero skills, random treasures. While not suitable for tournament play I think that element of chance is one reason for the continuing success of the game and wouldn't want to see everything standardised.

    Shandyr
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,461
    Well that was annoying. All towns were taken and the final enemy hero was about to be caught - the next turn or possibly the one after. Then the game crashed and without thinking I loaded my normal save and (still without thinking) pressed end turn - thus overwriting the autosave :s. I was on turn 178, so it would have been a decent score, but my save was from many hours previously and I'm not going back to play from that.

    Most of the game was fairly well played, but there were several occasions when I lost towns unncecessarily. One of those in particular was a huge mistake when I didn't notice an enemy getting into range of the original red town fairly early on in the game. That should have been an easy one to hold and losing it then rather trashed the strategic position I'd built up - I suspect without that error the game could have been finished at least a month earlier.

    The question now is do I go for one more one more go ...

    ShandyrJuliusBorisovCrevsDaak
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    Oh yes, btw, that is why I save very often. Almost every few turns. It's in my flesh and blood, I already do it automatically without even noticing. Because it SUCKS when the game crashes.

    In my experience the game crash can even corrupt the auto save and then you would have nothing left :(

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,461
    I'm sure you're doing the right thing, but I've never got in the habit of saving very regularly in any games. Perhaps I'll see if I can do that in my one more go, though I'm not too confident ...

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,433
    edited February 2017
    I'm on Month 3, Week 2, and can conclude about the lack of spells on this map. It's frustrating.

    I like not only might, but magic as well, and now all towns (at least, 6 towns under my control) offer 1 spell on 1, 2 and 3 levels. And to make it more frustrating, these spells are the same - healing and lightning.

    I don't mean it makes me weaker. I mean it diminishes the joy of playing this map, and I fail to see reasoning behind this decision. This is the Sword Coast, not Athkatla, magic is not forbidden there.

    Using spells like Curse, Slow, Haste adds to tactics. And now the only thing that is left is pure Attack VS Defence.

    I could understand the decision to diminish spells in towns if other spells could be learned by visiting teachers around the map. But currently these teachers teach the same spells...

    Post edited by JuliusBorisov on
    CrevsDaaklolienAedan
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