Once more I got a decent start and this time managed to carry that on. To encourage me to concentrate and take more care this time I was writing a brief summary of progress every week and using that to re-evaluate strategy. I still made a number of mistakes, but none of them were hugely costly. I also benefited in the later game from chasing down Luna to get her Angel Wings. That allowed me to fully explore and flag the map in the way I like, while still finishing in a decent time.
That's enough heroes 3 for me for a while now, but I'd just like to say thanks again to Shandyr for all the hard work that's gone into providing me with entertainment . If there's anything I can do in return then please do let me know.
Incidentally I think you asked a while ago about potential locations on the Sword Coast. You've got Durlag's Tower there, so you might want to think about adding in the other additional locations from TotSC. I would have thought Ice Island could easily be set in the underground area - still plenty of space there. Potentially the same could be done with Balduran's Isle - a small islet in the ocean with a transporter could take you into a sequence of small areas underground (mimicking progress up through the wrecked ship).
I am very reluctant to place ice island and werewolf island underground. Personally it would break my immersion because I just know that both locations are just too far away geographically...
That's fine. I wasn't thinking of them as being integrated with other areas in the sense of having multiple travel routes though. In the game ice island can only be reached via teleport and assuming that was done the location on the heroes map didn't seem crucial to me - personally I could easily imagine the map as showing widely separated territories of the same political entity by using inserts.
I've managed to score 438, just as @Grond0. This is after that second Fortress start. But I managed to complete it in 133 days, while @Grond0 spent 136 days. I didn't use Angel Wings, only several heroes with maximum logistics.
So I guess we have a new record Sorry, Grond0.
Feedback:
The map has become much better (as if it hadn't been awesome), with Castle nerfed. This was my main concern when I first played this map.
Now my army consisted of a mix between Tower, Stronghold and Castle. My another hero used Fortress army.
My second concern when I first played this map was that I didn't see any sense in exploring the south-eastern part of the map. This is also fixed in the latest version. @Shandyr made an excellent choice of adding a "Dark Moon" area, with an access to it granted in the Baldur's Gate city (just as in the Rasaad's BG questline).
But my other two notes still stand
I missed fractions not available on this map - Inferno and Elementals. When the map is so big and so long to play, it's always fun to have more different creatures in different armies. I appreciate the demons' gate in the Ulgorth's Beard, but still.
I would add obelisks to this map. I like to look for the Grail, I think it can be an additional factor for trying this or that attempt. When a map has 15-20 obelisks, it only makes it better.
Maybe I like obelisks because of my love for Might and Magic VI-VIII games, where it was fun to explore maps and find obelisks.
Hey hey, I already told you last time that there are Elementals! There is a Conflux town on that map and it has always been, from the very beginning!
Try finding it but I promise you it's there!
I guess the problem is that it's a neutral city. If you're trying to complete the map as quickly as JuliusBorisov then by the time you're in a position to acquire the city there's probably not enough time to build it up and use creatures from it in any meaningful way. I realise of course the appropriate answer to that is "well don't finish the map so fast then" .
I've managed to score 438, just as @Grond0. This is after that second Fortress start. But I managed to complete it in 133 days, while @Grond0 spent 136 days. I didn't use Angel Wings, only several heroes with maximum logistics.
So I guess we have a new record Sorry, Grond0.
I wasn't intending to play again immediately, but that just seemed like a challenge . This time I decided to try out the dungeon faction and struck lucky when Terek started ignoring terrain obstacles. Pursuing him aggressively I finally managed to trap him in a town and prevent him escaping from a third fight - netting me some beautiful angel wings. To speed things up this time I didn't fully explore the underground and also didn't fully upgrade all towns. The result of cutting those corners should give even @JuliusBorisov something to think about .
If you really wanted to make it more difficult you could get rid of those angel wings . In addition to flight and dimension door the other thing I think is often disabled in MP to make things a bit more difficult / even-handed is diplomacy. In my last run I picked that up pretty early and that makes it possible to advance using neutral stacks rather than having to wait to build up an army from your city.
I'm not actually suggesting you should disable diplomacy. I would leave it - like you I rarely use it in my games, but think it can be fun. I was commenting more that in the particular circumstances of a speed run (which most games won't be) having it makes things easier.
So, I've accepted the challenge and here's my result. Sorry, @Grond0
I've stared as Dungeon, and forced myself through everything. Knowing this map much better now, the first thing I did was getting Fortress base and thus covering about 1/2 of the map.
I'm sure you're a better player than me @JuliusBorisov and I think I'm now getting into the territory of diminishing returns. However, if you still want a target you could aim for this one .
@Grond0 Ok, that was difficult. After several tries, I've managed to win the game in the same number of days (just see, first it were 77 days for me, then 76 days, then 75 days, and finally, 74 days). But the system strangely gave me only 442 points, not 444.
Using the formula from here: Base Score = 200 - X + 25 (if you defeated all enemies) + 25 (if you got the grail) Where X = (days+10)/(Towns+5), rounded down Final Score = (Base Score)(Difficulty level map was played on)
(200 - (74+10)/(16+5) + 25)*2 = 442
Let's see how that could become 444: (200 - (74+10)/(20+5) + 25)*2 = 444. So, in order to get 444 in 74 days for this map, a player should get 20 towns. @Shandyr, could you confirm this map has at least 20 towns? Because from what I see the map has 18 towns (16 + Adoy's Enclave and + Dark Moon).
18 towns mean (200 - (74+10)/(18+5) + 25)*2 = 442, which is not 444. So from what I see this map can't give 444 points for 74 days.
@Grond0 Ok, that was difficult. After several tries, I've managed to win the game in the same number of days (just see, first it were 77 days for me, then 76 days, then 75 days, and finally, 74 days). But the system strangely gave me only 442 points, not 444.
18 towns mean (200 - (74+10)/(18+5) + 25)*2 = 442, which is not 444. So from what I see this map can't give 444 points for 74 days.
The formula you describe looks like it results in 444 points to me. 84 / 23 = 3 (rounded down) 200 - 3 + 25 = 222 x 2 = 444 Did you definitely own all 18 towns? If you hadn't captured all the neutral towns that could explain why you only got 442.
From your scoring it sounds like you've been working hard - impressive stuff. From my perspective, I don't regard the 74 days as a genuine score for me anyway. That used the same start as the previous game so I knew in advance what strategy to use . Pending any further challengers I think that makes you the leader for the moment ...
@Shandyr , thank you again for this awesome map. I've already spent more than 40 hours on it. Some games don't even provide as many hours, as your only map provides
Comments
That's enough heroes 3 for me for a while now, but I'd just like to say thanks again to Shandyr for all the hard work that's gone into providing me with entertainment
Incidentally I think you asked a while ago about potential locations on the Sword Coast. You've got Durlag's Tower there, so you might want to think about adding in the other additional locations from TotSC. I would have thought Ice Island could easily be set in the underground area - still plenty of space there. Potentially the same could be done with Balduran's Isle - a small islet in the ocean with a transporter could take you into a sequence of small areas underground (mimicking progress up through the wrecked ship).
So I guess we have a new record
Feedback:
The map has become much better (as if it hadn't been awesome), with Castle nerfed. This was my main concern when I first played this map.
Now my army consisted of a mix between Tower, Stronghold and Castle. My another hero used Fortress army.
My second concern when I first played this map was that I didn't see any sense in exploring the south-eastern part of the map. This is also fixed in the latest version. @Shandyr made an excellent choice of adding a "Dark Moon" area, with an access to it granted in the Baldur's Gate city (just as in the Rasaad's BG questline).
But my other two notes still stand
I missed fractions not available on this map - Inferno and Elementals. When the map is so big and so long to play, it's always fun to have more different creatures in different armies. I appreciate the demons' gate in the Ulgorth's Beard, but still.
I would add obelisks to this map. I like to look for the Grail, I think it can be an additional factor for trying this or that attempt. When a map has 15-20 obelisks, it only makes it better.
Maybe I like obelisks because of my love for Might and Magic VI-VIII games, where it was fun to explore maps and find obelisks.
I've stared as Dungeon, and forced myself through everything. Knowing this map much better now, the first thing I did was getting Fortress base and thus covering about 1/2 of the map.
Score 442, Days 83
Using the formula from here:
Base Score = 200 - X + 25 (if you defeated all enemies) + 25 (if you got the grail)
Where X = (days+10)/(Towns+5), rounded down
Final Score = (Base Score)(Difficulty level map was played on)
(200 - (74+10)/(16+5) + 25)*2 = 442
Let's see how that could become 444: (200 - (74+10)/(20+5) + 25)*2 = 444. So, in order to get 444 in 74 days for this map, a player should get 20 towns. @Shandyr, could you confirm this map has at least 20 towns? Because from what I see the map has 18 towns (16 + Adoy's Enclave and + Dark Moon).
18 towns mean (200 - (74+10)/(18+5) + 25)*2 = 442, which is not 444. So from what I see this map can't give 444 points for 74 days.
84 / 23 = 3 (rounded down)
200 - 3 + 25 = 222 x 2 = 444
Did you definitely own all 18 towns? If you hadn't captured all the neutral towns that could explain why you only got 442.
From your scoring it sounds like you've been working hard - impressive stuff. From my perspective, I don't regard the 74 days as a genuine score for me anyway. That used the same start as the previous game so I knew in advance what strategy to use
I'll try to replay from the last save.
72 days and 444 score!
@Shandyr , thank you again for this awesome map. I've already spent more than 40 hours on it. Some games don't even provide as many hours, as your only map provides