I understand your design choices @Shandyr - and I like them. I will play this more over the weekend and let you know. (I think I will re-start again as Candlekeep faction - out of nostalgia)
As you can see, it took 156 days to complete the map. And as you can see, usually random maps on which I play (including MP games) take less time. It's because this map is very big. And it's the thing I've liked. The fact that the map is big makes possible my favourite tactics when I maneuver, trying not to face stronger heroes, gathering armies from different towns. I like long maps.
I've liked that you have managed to combine the map with water, even in the underworld. It's always fresh (pun intended) and gives additional opportunities for maneuver.
Overall, the landscapes and BG references are the strongest points of this map. You've managed to create diverse places, all looking different, and with lots and lots of ways to travel. Also, resources and gold. You've given an excellent balance, I think.
I would add obelisks to this map. I like to look for the Grail, I think it can be an additional factor for trying this or that attempt. When a map has 15-20 obelisks, it only makes it better.
The difficulty was fine (basically, as I've managed to beat it).
My concern may be that there're too many Castles on his map, if compared to other towns. In the end, I had an army almost fully from Castle, so it didn't matter I started with Dungeon:
I also like maps with guards for which you need keys. I saw one keyguard on this map, but I think there should be more.
I missed fractions not available on this map, as Inferno and Elementals. When the map is so big and so long to play, it's always fun to have more different creatures in different armies.
I've read your opinion about MP. From my experience, when I play MP on random maps, the conditions of each player are different. One can be lucky, and another can get tough guards. It'a a part of random maps. So this map, which obviously have several better starting points, is fine in that regard.
Also, you may improve black (unexplored) parts of the map, as I didn't feel any need to visit them (check the screenshots below. except for the Undercity part):
Overall, this is one of the best HoMM 3 maps ever, and of course the only one unique map combining HoMM with BG referencies.
@Shandyr You might put the info about where the key is found between spoiler tags, for those who follow this topic and want to experience the map when it's done.
I have a sudden realization. I'll no chance to get my wife play Baldur's Gate. But she played Heroes III some few months ago... So just send me me those beta files @Shandyr, please!
Any chance that your map has a built-in story mode? Or italian translation?
I slowly make my way through the map, and the many little details are amazing. I don't like generally scenario maps, but this one is big enough to get time for progression and well balanced. Thanks again @Shandyr for your work!
@Shandyr thanks very much for letting me play with your map . I see you're still calling it a beta, but having played a few downloaded community made maps I would say yours is of very high quality and see no reason why it couldn't be finalised now. I saw JuliusBorisov's comment about castles being over-powered, but I assume you have updated the map since then to balance the faction by limiting the development of some castles.
As you noted earlier in the thread the map is essentially just a standard heroes 3 game, but with BG references added to provide a bit of extra flavour. I thought that mixture worked well.
I played starting in Candlekeep and after a few early false starts got myself into a winning position before making a mistake and getting cornered by the one remaining tough hero - the hundreds of dragons he had proved too much of a hurdle . Trying again I have successfully completed the whole map - my completionist tendencies kicking in to require me to explore everywhere, kill everything and flag all objects meant that took a total of 492 days {Edit: also partly a consequence of never having the opportunity to learn earth magic, so I had to use raw power rather than resurrection to win combats}. The game was essentially won a long time before that, but there was a fair amount of time spent earlier on of genuine struggle - which reflects the quality of the work. - in the early game resources are tight (which is good), so development needs care. - when other AIs start being active they are likely to be much stronger than you (at least if playing on 200%), so scouting and careful movement are needed to avoid disasters. - even after I had a very strong character subduing the AI was still not straight-forward. While that was partly no doubt flaws in my play the size of the map and the various different methods of moving around in it mean that the end game does offer challenge as well as the earlier stages. I suspect I'll probably play the map again with the aim of completing the game as quickly as possible next time, rather than being completionist.
While I haven't played any of the other factions my feeling is that the game appears well-balanced generally between factions, though differences in how accessible starting positions are to the AI will require some changes in strategies.
Thanks again for all the hard work you've put into this.
Btw, Julius record is 436. You could try to beat him
Well, I had an excellent start. I reloaded the beginning 4 or 5 times in order to get a good selection of the first 2 heroes and quickly got into what I thought would be an unstoppable position. However, I made a significant mistake in the middle game, needlessly losing my original town when I didn't spot an enemy sneaking up while my main hero was a long way away. I also did my typical lose focus bit in the end game and again went for a completionist run rather than hunting enemies down as quickly as possible. Finally, I also wasted 10 days after encountering what I thought was the last hero. It ran away and I wondered if that was why the game didn't end, so just rested for a week to see if that would help. Eventually I scanned the map more carefully and realised there was still a tan town hiding on a tan coloured portion of rough ground .
Those delays all proved costly and I couldn't get the high score, but I think there's still plenty of room for improvement!
Lastly what do you think about obelisks, should I add them and enable the Grail on the map?
Personally I'm not a great fan of the Grail, so didn't miss it. If you wanted to add it in though I would have thought you could add an appropriate storyline based on another of Balduran's relics ...
I don't know if I would weave a storyline around it, maybe just some small note.
That's all I was thinking of - maybe one screen when the first obelisk is discovered and a second when the 'Grail' is found.
Rather than playing the tower faction again I had a go with the rampart. I had one abortive attempt as a result of resources being even harder to get early on with them (not the same relatively easy access to windmills), but a change of tactics produced a pretty decent attempt second time around. There were no major disasters this time - towns were lost on numerous occasions, but that's pretty difficult to avoid against flying, implosion-wielding heroes with dozens of dragons! I still failed to get myself to finish as quickly as possible though - I did this time leave a small number of neutral stacks, but still spent a fair amount of extra time at the end exploring and ensuring everything was flagged before killing the last hero - and that time proved just a bit too much .
Edit: incidentally the point about flying heroes is that one of them presumably had a pair of angels wings (though I didn't recover them). You've obviously ensured that towns don't have the fly spell, but I'm not sure whether you were intending to leave open the option of flying by item use.
Comments
A new record!
I've liked that you have managed to combine the map with water, even in the underworld. It's always fresh (pun intended) and gives additional opportunities for maneuver.
Overall, the landscapes and BG references are the strongest points of this map. You've managed to create diverse places, all looking different, and with lots and lots of ways to travel. Also, resources and gold. You've given an excellent balance, I think.
I would add obelisks to this map. I like to look for the Grail, I think it can be an additional factor for trying this or that attempt. When a map has 15-20 obelisks, it only makes it better.
The difficulty was fine (basically, as I've managed to beat it).
My concern may be that there're too many Castles on his map, if compared to other towns. In the end, I had an army almost fully from Castle, so it didn't matter I started with Dungeon:
I also like maps with guards for which you need keys. I saw one keyguard on this map, but I think there should be more.
I missed fractions not available on this map, as Inferno and Elementals. When the map is so big and so long to play, it's always fun to have more different creatures in different armies.
I've read your opinion about MP. From my experience, when I play MP on random maps, the conditions of each player are different. One can be lucky, and another can get tough guards. It'a a part of random maps. So this map, which obviously have several better starting points, is fine in that regard.
Also, you may improve black (unexplored) parts of the map, as I didn't feel any need to visit them (check the screenshots below. except for the Undercity part):
Overall, this is one of the best HoMM 3 maps ever, and of course the only one unique map combining HoMM with BG referencies.
Any chance that your map has a built-in story mode? Or italian translation?
Take a bow sir, you've captured all my nostalgia in one place.
As you noted earlier in the thread the map is essentially just a standard heroes 3 game, but with BG references added to provide a bit of extra flavour. I thought that mixture worked well.
I played starting in Candlekeep and after a few early false starts got myself into a winning position before making a mistake and getting cornered by the one remaining tough hero - the hundreds of dragons he had proved too much of a hurdle
- in the early game resources are tight (which is good), so development needs care.
- when other AIs start being active they are likely to be much stronger than you (at least if playing on 200%), so scouting and careful movement are needed to avoid disasters.
- even after I had a very strong character subduing the AI was still not straight-forward. While that was partly no doubt flaws in my play the size of the map and the various different methods of moving around in it mean that the end game does offer challenge as well as the earlier stages. I suspect I'll probably play the map again with the aim of completing the game as quickly as possible next time, rather than being completionist.
While I haven't played any of the other factions my feeling is that the game appears well-balanced generally between factions, though differences in how accessible starting positions are to the AI will require some changes in strategies.
Thanks again for all the hard work you've put into this.
Those delays all proved costly and I couldn't get the high score, but I think there's still plenty of room for improvement!
Personally I'm not a great fan of the Grail, so didn't miss it. If you wanted to add it in though I would have thought you could add an appropriate storyline based on another of Balduran's relics ...
Edit: Mithral Pantaloons acceptable too.