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Baldur's Gate meets Heroes of Might and Magic 3

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Comments

  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    edited July 2017
    So there's one topic that I have avoided so far completely, the matter of custom heroes.

    For now I have decided to not make custom heroes out of respect for the original games. If I modeled HoMM3 heroes after Baldur's Gate NPCs that could break a lot of things.

    It would do no justice to the Baldur's Gate NPCs. And on the other hand the HoMM3 heroes are so ingrained in my mind that it would almost be disturbing to see custom heroes. To see their portrait but with different names and abilities etc.

    However, that doesn't mean that I can't use HoMM3 heroes who do keep their original identity but who are reminiscent of certain Baldur's Gate NPCs.

    For example if I told you that I was going to place a prison in the Cloakwood mines underground, where a dwarf hero was held captive. Wouldn't that remind you of someone?

    Or maybe if I placed a prison with an Elven mage hero in the Nashkel mines, maybe that would remind you of someone too?

    I think for now, I would prefer to work in these subtle ways.

    In my opinion those imprisoned heroes should not be level 1. Especially the one in Cloakwood mines is rather hard to get. So it should be rewarding to rescue them.

    Which means they should have a higher level already. Which means they should have several secondary skills already.

    And here comes my subtly into play again...

    I would like to pick some secondary skills that would also fit the Baldur's Gate NPCs that they are supposed to remind of.

    Let's take a look at this:
    http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Yeslick_Orothiar
    http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Xan
    http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes3/secondaryskills.shtml

    So which secondary skills would you pick based on that for the imprisoned dwarf and elf?
    Also think of artifacts, what artifacts would they wear that would make them remind you of Yeslick and Xan even more...

    HA! The elf prisoner will be wielding this!

    Post edited by Shandyr on
    JuliusBorisovThacoBellmlneveselolien
  • AedanAedan Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 8,224
    Shandyr said:

    For now I have decided to not make custom heroes out of respect for the original games. If I modeled HoMM3 heroes after Baldur's Gate NPCs that could break a lot of things.

    On the contrary, it would be fun!

    Shandyrmlneveselolien
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    edited July 2017
    HA! I live for battles like these:

    image

    Numbers you can't see:
    I have 15 Black Dragons, the enemy has 11 Titans and 45 Medusa Queens.

    Creature Morale and Luck is +3 both for my army. But -2 Morale and +2 Luck for him.

    But look at his attack value, dear Lord... The grail has been build in that town. Normally he has an attack value of 30 but the grail building grants him additional +20 to attack WTF.

    Also, the escape tunnel has been built. So I need to be very cautious if I want to defeat him and not just make him flee.

    But here comes the twist, and it will probably be his downfall for I have EXPERT FIRE MAGIC + BERSERK + ORB OF VULNERABILITY (God I love that one!) MWUAHAHAHAHAHA

    Okay, nevermind, I was OP xD

    image

    Always funny to see the enemy army slaughter itself.

    Grond0JuliusBorisovThacoBelllolien
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    Wow I was just fighting another enemy who was wearing the Pendant of Dispassion. He was immune to Berserk. Still I won but Expert Berserk + Orb of Vulnerability is no failsafe :neutral:

    JuliusBorisovlolien
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    So I was thinking about some things:

    Due to a certain iron crisis at the Sword Coast it's hard to come by iron ore in my scenario. However, the different factions are differently affected by this which can be very unfair.

    Just compare these:
    http://heroes.thelazy.net/wiki/Rampart_creature_dwellings
    http://heroes.thelazy.net/wiki/Tower_creature_dwellings

    The Tower town requires a lot of ore even for it's low level buildings while Rampart needs... NONE of it at all for the low level buildings.

    The other factions, Fortress, Stronghold and Necropolis can all produce iron ore as part of their resource silo. Dungeon cannot, that's true, but they require little ore for the low level buildings (up to level 3).

    I don't want that every faction is equally hard or easy to play. They are supposed to be different in difficulty, but playing the Tower is too hard at the moment, especially when they don't get the tavern and the workshop as starting buildings.

    So I will give the Tower town, the tavern, the workshop and the parapet from the very beginning.

    Another matter is the Angel Wings. I have noticed that, as long as they are enabled, there's just one objective really in the game, and that is to get them ASAP and then WIN.
    It's hard to not win with them.

    So pretty much every session of my map plays the same in that you always look out for the Angel Wings to win. So I have decided to switch them off.

    Grond0JuliusBorisov
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    edited July 2017
    Testing out Tower faction with new settings...

    Works fine :)

    The Battle for Cloakwood Forest is on!!! I snatched into the AI's castle just before it could get there itself. And now I'm defending it.

    image

    Numbers you can't see: I have 16 Titans, the AI has 14 Gold Dragons.

    The enemy does have quite a strong army, but this should give you an idea who has won. MWUAHAHAHA
    I might be slightly OP

    Solmyr :love:
    image

    Edit: And just now I found the Pendant of Negativity :smiley:
    Which means I don't need to worry anymore about hitting my own troops with chain lightning :smiley:

    Grond0JuliusBorisov
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,018
    edited July 2017
    Yeah, Tower was very much possible (the last time I played this map), just not as quick as my favorite for this map - Dungeon.

    P.S. I like your new suggestions :)

    Shandyr
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    edited July 2017

    Yeah, Tower was very much possible (the last time I played this map), just not as quick as my favorite for this map - Dungeon.

    P.S. I like your new suggestions :)

    When you start any new game there is a chance for buildings inside a town to be already built. This affects the tavern, the level 1 creature dwelling and the level 2 creature dwelling. It depends on chance if some of those buildings are already built or not.

    In my experience the Tower faction was too hard, if NONE of the buildings had been given for free at the start of the game.

    Now I have switched on these three buildings by default. However, if it becomes too easy by that I could be persuaded to switch off the parapet. Would need beta testers to tell me :tongue:

    But I need a bit more time before I hand out the latest version of the map, stay tuned :)

    JuliusBorisov
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    Something I stumbled upon and that I'd like to share:

    lolien
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    edited August 2017
    So the AI decided to attack Solmyr. Big mistake... how can it possibly hope to win...?

    image

    Numbers you can't see: I have 16 Titans and 29 Naga Queens, the AI has 12 Phoenixes

    Edit: Great, the AI has cast Expert Anti Magic on the Black Knights... And I don't have Water Magic...

    Guess I'll have it to do the summoning way^^
    I'm lucky the AI doesn't have Orb of Inhibition or Recanter's cloak

    image

    MWUAHAHAHAHAHA >:)

    image

    mlneveseJuliusBorisov
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    And here comes my new Ocean Level :open_mouth:

    image


    You can compare it with the old one, here (on the left side):
    image


    And with that, I'm ready to hand out the latest version of my map for anyone who'd like to test it :)
    Just send me a PM :)

    JuliusBorisovlolien
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    edited August 2017
    Ugh... the moment I want to cry:

    image

    What kind of choice is that? xD
    Damn it, I'm lucky she's not my main hero. But still she was supposed to be my second in command...

    UGH X_X

    *sigh*

    No sane person would ever choose Eagle Eye VOLUNTARILY... *sigh*

    BUT! Just maybe but... I mean... I'm Fortress so I don't have access to level 4 spells :/
    Ursaville can't offer them either nor can Nashkel (I disabled mage guild for it), both the nearest settlements to mine.

    I know you should never make your secondary skills expert while you have free slots, exactly because of this situation. But what could I have done? The game only wanted to offer me "First Aid" before
    Grrr...

    Edit:

    Some time later:

    image

    Post edited by Shandyr on
    JuliusBorisovlolien
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    What the heck...?

    I have disabled the spell "Fly" and the artifact "Angel Wings" and yet I saw the AI flying!

    How is that possible?

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,018
    Shandyr said:

    I'm ready to hand out the latest version of my map for anyone who'd like to test it :)
    Just send me a PM :)

    Does the map have obelisks now?

    Shandyr
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263

    Shandyr said:

    I'm ready to hand out the latest version of my map for anyone who'd like to test it :)
    Just send me a PM :)

    Does the map have obelisks now?
    Yes, Sir, and a lot of them!

    JuliusBorisovlolien
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    edited August 2017
    Shandyr said:

    What the heck...?

    I have disabled the spell "Fly" and the artifact "Angel Wings" and yet I saw the AI flying!

    How is that possible?

    So I defeated the enemy hero that could fly and later on I recruited her myself. She did not have the fly spell. Which I would expect because I have disabled fly.

    She also couldn't have had the angel wings, because I disabled them too. Also she didn't always fly. So it was almost like using the spell.

    But again she doesn't have the spell.

    I have no idea how she was able to fly.

    Edit: AHAHAHAHA LOL That gave me a headache but I found the culprit now!
    http://heroes.thelazy.net/wiki/Spellbinder's_Hat

    Embarrassing xD Should have thought of it sooner. Will be banned too >:)

    Post edited by Shandyr on
    JuliusBorisovlolien
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    Hmm so in the middle of month 3, still early phase for me, maybe beginning of mid-game.

    And suddenly 23 Phoenixes offer to join me. I could probably sweep over my enemies now.

    I don't know what to think of it, it's almost game breaking. My problem is I LOVE when the enemy does that. When the AI absorbs HUGE stacks of high level monsters and I'm in trouble finding out how to defeat it.
    I really like that. It's a challenge.

    But I don't like when 23 Phoenixes offer to join me for free.
    Too easy. I also never use diplomacy.

    There is no way to say "only offer to join AI, never human". That option would be exactly what I want.

    I'm not sure what to do. I'm open for suggestions but I need to think about it some more anyway.

    JuliusBorisov
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,402
    I have noted before that you're not fond of diplomacy. Given you've just been tweaking some other means to overpower the opposition (angel wings), you could block diplomacy as well - otherwise it provides a big temptation to the user B).

    If you're worried about stacks joining you could specify some of the stacks rather than using random ones, but I understand you don't want to reduce the prospects for the enemy building up huge armies. Maybe it would be worth specifying stacks close to starting positions? On high difficulty you would expect the AI to develop a bit quicker than you, so they would tend to have an earlier chance to get random joiners.

    ShandyrJuliusBorisovlolien
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    edited August 2017
    Grond0 said:

    I have noted before that you're not fond of diplomacy. Given you've just been tweaking some other means to overpower the opposition (angel wings), you could block diplomacy as well - otherwise it provides a big temptation to the user B).

    To be honest, a part of me is uncomfortable with switching things off. The reason is that switching off means taking away options from the player and enforcing my way of playing onto others.

    I hope not too many people will see it that way. You could also see it differently in that a map provides a challenge and I as a map maker decide what that challenge is.

    Anyway, it's HoMM3 so you can always load a map into the map editor and make changes to a map if you so wish and for example undo my decisions.

    Now what should the decision be based on if I consider switching off options. The question for me is, given Dimension Door, Town Portal and Fly - can the AI use it at least intelligently enough so that it provides a challenge. And I don't think so.

    I think those three things give the human player a HUGE advantage, like cheese actually, because they can use them so much more intelligently.

    However, I think switching diplomacy on/off affects the AI and the player equally. At least I think that for now. The decision whether to switch it on or off does not unbalance the power of the player vs the AI so much as do Dimension Door, Town Portal and Fly.

    And if I consider switching on/off an option that I believe affects both sides, the AI and the player, more or less equally, then I'm inclined to leave it switched on to provide more options to the player.

    But:
    Grond0 said:


    Maybe it would be worth specifying stacks close to starting positions? On high difficulty you would expect the AI to develop a bit quicker than you, so they would tend to have an earlier chance to get random joiners.

    This is a good point actually. I like that idea a lot and will very probably do it that way.
    High level tiers monster stacks in starting areas would never join, while lower levels would be unlikely to join, except maybe for level 1 which may or may not join (maybe level 2 too).

    JuliusBorisov
  • saoxsaox Member Posts: 91
    Great job. Just make sure the map is well playable - not too many open spaces

    Shandyr
  • EetheartEetheart Member Posts: 22
    This is very beautiful. Are you planning on doing the Underdark for the Subterrain?

    Shandyr
  • AedanAedan Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 8,224
    I guess it does not work with HOMM3 HD, right?

    Shandyr
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    edited November 2017
    Aedan said:

    I guess it does not work with HOMM3 HD, right?

    HAHAHAHAHA!

    This is funny in a way. Because the last days I was having quite a heavy argument about Neverwinter Nights:EE and how modern graphics would break mod compatibility.

    Now guess what, there is some kind of parallel here. Even if it's just on a small scale.
    The "modernization" of the graphics in "HoMM3 HD" "break" my "mod" (in this case my map) so to say. Oh the irony. Because I was confronted with this argument in the discussion about NWN:EE again and again.

    No, you will not be able to play this map with HoMM3 HD. The price of the better graphics in HoMM3 HD is that you can no longer play any custom maps that were created for the add-ons of HoMM3.

    However, in the case of HoMM3 that should not be a problem. Because you can very easily switch between the different versions. You can very easily switch between HoMM3 Complete, HoMM3 HD and even HoMM3 HOTA.

    Post edited by Shandyr on
    ThacoBelllolien
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    @JuliusBorisov

    Before I publish my map, I would like to add a copyright note to the description of my map. Basically I want to declare that my map is based on Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition. And that I do not mean to infringe copyright.

    There must be some kind of legal language to make clear that my work is based on someone else's work and that I do not take credit for that work, nor do I claim ownership of it.

    Would you help me out with that?

    lolienJuliusBorisov
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,018
    Maybe go with something like this:

    "This map is created based on Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition by Beamdog. All the names, links, stories, characters and references to Baldur's Gate, Dungeons & Dragons, Forgotten Realms used in this map are the property of their respective owners."

    Shandyrmlneveselolien
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,018
    Ok, now I have HoMM 3 Complete and an HD mod.
    Who would like to give this map an MP try?

    ShandyrlolienGrond0
  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263

    Ok, now I have HoMM 3 Complete and an HD mod.
    Who would like to give this map an MP try?

    We could try it next week some day.

    Beware though that I spiced the difficulty up quite a lot in the last version. Maybe it is too high now. We will see then. You could try a singleplayer match first, to see if I went overboard with the difficulty.

    Personally I like challenges, but it may not be to everyone's taste.

    lolienJuliusBorisov
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,018
    I didn't want to spoil myself. I thought that since I had played this map before all the changes, all the obelisks etc, a MP game would be interesting.

    Shandyr
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 7,612
    @JuliusBorisov and I are playing this in MP. I picked the tower town and he picked the dungeon town. I think he is doing better than I am... Mainly because I am stuck...

    ShandyrlolienJuliusBorisov
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