Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

jRPG's aren't RPGs.

12346

Comments

  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,861


    You replayed ff7, but how many ff7 reviewers on steam have over 100+ hours on steam?

    That's called "moving the goal post.

    megamike15ThacoBell
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,500
    ff7 has also been out for 20 years so saying " they only played it once steam says so.' does not factor in ps1 copies from 97.

    i for example have replayed ff7 multiple times because i enjoy the story especially with the fan translation that came out afew years back.

    i replay alot of jrpgs because i enjoy them. same with wrpgs


    all this reminds me of is an argument sierra adventure game fans made to hate on lucas arts games " you can't die so it's dumbing down adventure games."

    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,723
    @SorcererV1ct0r You keep mentioning things that Dark Sould does as if its proof of how bad JRPGs are. Well guess, Dark Souls is a JRPG. And no, your rebuttal does not address my argument, you can't something is objective fact that is opinion based.

  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,861

    ff7 has also been out for 20 years so saying " they only played it once steam says so.' does not factor in ps1 copies from 97.

    The only game I can think of that I have hands down play more than the original 3 disc ps1 ff7 games is Phantom Dust, and I didn't even have xbox live on the original Xbox nor is it open word or nonlinear.yet I had countless fun costumizing skills and ability, building themed decks and replaying story missions to crush my the enemy in that game.

    Fornl me that's saying something because I get bored of things fast.

    ThacoBell
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,067
    edited July 2018
    ThacoBell said:

    @SorcererV1ct0r You keep mentioning things that Dark Sould does as if its proof of how bad JRPGs are. Well guess, Dark Souls is a JRPG. And no, your rebuttal does not address my argument, you can't something is objective fact that is opinion based.

    Depends. If jRPG is any RPG made on Japan, then you are right. If is a game who follows a lot of tropes of jRPG subgenre, then you are wrong. My critique wasn't against all RPG's made on Japan. There are a long discussion about what defines an jRPG ( eg https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoBestFriendsPlay/comments/2jst0o/is_dark_souls_a_jrpg/ )

    In Dark Souls, i have a lot of replay value, a pyromancer, an sorcerer and a cleric will be very distinct despite all being casters, you can be anything that you want, you can have choices who will impact the world, attacking an illusion on Anor Londo have a lot of consequences on that area... If DS become an turn based where everyone stay on a line, a lot of random encounters with very slow animations, no character customization aka you will play with a 15 yo swordsman guy doesn't matter if you rather play with another class and no decisions to make, i will not gonna enjoy DS.


    Lets be honest here, despite Dark Souls and Ni No Kuni being games developed on Japan, they are extremely different, but i an not criticizing turn based combat. I enjoy NWN, Arcanum, IWD who have turn based combat. Is just a better system than "ally line VS enemy line", i liked the system one turn = 6 sec and you can pause...

    See what he said here at 3:45

  • SquireSquire Member Posts: 512
    All I have to say on the subject of oversized swords... is this:

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,723
    @SorcererV1ct0r Lets be honest here. JRPG means "Japanese ROle PLaying Game". Any RPG made in Japan, is BY DEFINITION, a JRPG. Western RPGs don't all follow the same tropes, there is no reason to force JRPGs to as well. I mean, that's like pointing at a Sparrow and going, "I hate birds, they all fly and are tiny." And then complain when people rightfullt point out that there are many birds that are rather large and can't fly, making up new rules, "Oh well, those aren't REALLY birds. For they don't fit my very narrow definition that I made up."

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,067
    edited July 2018
    ThacoBell said:

    @SorcererV1ct0r Lets be honest here. JRPG means "Japanese ROle PLaying Game". Any RPG made in Japan, is BY DEFINITION, a JRPG. Western RPGs don't all follow the same tropes, there is no reason to force JRPGs to as well. I mean, that's like pointing at a Sparrow and going, "I hate birds, they all fly and are tiny." And then complain when people rightfullt point out that there are many birds that are rather large and can't fly, making up new rules, "Oh well, those aren't REALLY birds. For they don't fit my very narrow definition that I made up."

    Lets suppose that they develop by some reason the next FF game in USA, the game will not be more an jRPG? What if half the product is made on one country and half in another? I was talking about jRPG as a SUBGENRE, not as all RPG's made on Japan.

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,500
    not all jrpgs are made in japan either. some are from korea.

    really we should just call them eastern rpgs just like we have western rpgs.

    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,723

    ThacoBell said:

    @SorcererV1ct0r Lets be honest here. JRPG means "Japanese ROle PLaying Game". Any RPG made in Japan, is BY DEFINITION, a JRPG. Western RPGs don't all follow the same tropes, there is no reason to force JRPGs to as well. I mean, that's like pointing at a Sparrow and going, "I hate birds, they all fly and are tiny." And then complain when people rightfullt point out that there are many birds that are rather large and can't fly, making up new rules, "Oh well, those aren't REALLY birds. For they don't fit my very narrow definition that I made up."

    Lets suppose that they develop by some reason the next FF game in USA, the game will not be more an jRPG? What if half the product is made on one country and half in another? I was talking about jRPG as a SUBGENRE, not as all RPG's made on Japan.
    No it wouldn't. That would make it a western RPG.

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,067

    not all jrpgs are made in japan either. some are from korea.

    really we should just call them eastern rpgs just like we have western rpgs.

    Yes, but do you call then as a subgenre or as any rpg game made on east? If is not subgenre, what about Russian rpg's?

  • SquireSquire Member Posts: 512
    ThacoBell said:

    @SorcererV1ct0r Lets be honest here. JRPG means "Japanese ROle PLaying Game". Any RPG made in Japan, is BY DEFINITION, a JRPG. Western RPGs don't all follow the same tropes, there is no reason to force JRPGs to as well.

    Not really. JRPG is a style of RPG that originates from Japan, but there's nothing to say that other countries can't make similar games, and that Japan can't make other types of RPGs if they so choose. I consider The Witcher, and even KC:D to be very JRPG in their style of gameplay.

    Saying it's automatically a JRPG if it comes from Japan is like calling every band from Japan a Jrock band even if they don't do the Babymetal style of music (although to be fair people pretty much do that - it must annoy Japanese bands to automatically get the J prefix whether they're like Babymetal or not! :lol: ). We don't refer to Toyotas as Jcars, or Sony TV sets as Jteles, so why should every game from Japan be a Jgame?

    Dev6SorcererV1ct0r
  • Dev6Dev6 Member Posts: 719
    Babymetal is the greatest thing to have happened to rock/metal music in the past 20 years.










    ...I'm sorry, you guys were talking about what? I got distracted... :tongue:

  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,861

    not all jrpgs are made in japan either. some are from korea.

    really we should just call them eastern rpgs just like we have western rpgs.

    Yes, but do you call then as a subgenre or as any rpg game made on east? If is not subgenre, what about Russian rpg's?
    WHAT ARE YOU EVEN ARGUING HERE? We don't call Russian made rpgs, RRPG like we don't call German made RPG, GRPG or American ARPG. So why do we need a subgenre for JRPG? You're arguing pointless group semantics so you can toss what you don't like into that group.

    If you must have a freaking category for them than call the Story RPG because they are STORY DRIVEN! You take the ROLE of X character and play him. There is no rule, law, universal statement claiming all RPG have yo follow the same rules as NW and BG, or original sin which are a story rich, but definitely don't call story driven since the story takes a back seat to literally EVERYTHING ELSE (haven't played NW so I have no clue there)!

    In fact, a lot of people hate games like BG because the protag is an empty slate you are expected *imprint* everything onto; traits, personality, actual character development. That's not even taking into account for the level of urgency that both by 1and 2 suppose to possess due to the nature of the stories. The urgency and weight of it all are LOST due to the very fact the story takes a back seat where it should be moving the player forward.

    There now you have your semantic to argue over, it's SRPG.

    Dev6ThacoBellSethDavismegamike15
  • SquireSquire Member Posts: 512
    Maybe, but just try changing the habit of a lifetime! It's not that easy... I spent the last 10 years trying to get LARPers to stop referring to "chain armour" (which makes me think of a giant chain wrapped around the person :lol: ). Once a term sticks, it sticks.

    My understanding is: the J prefix refers to the country that invented that style of game, not the country that created that particular game, otherwise that would get confusing fast... if you call a game a KRPG, for example, most people would have no idea what to expect from the game - is it story based, character based, exploration based, sandbox based, what? - but you say JRPG and it's an instantly recognised subgenre, and everyone knows what to expect.

    Besides, Japan invented the story-based RPG, so I think they get to have their name in the title of the sub-genre. :p

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,067

    (...)If you must have a freaking category for them than call the Story RPG because they are STORY DRIVEN! You take the ROLE of X character and play him. There is no rule, law, universal statement claiming all RPG have yo follow the same rules as NW and BG(...)

    Again, see the Squire answer. " the J prefix refers to the country that invented that style of game, not the country that created that particular game, otherwise that would get confusing fast"

    Korea made a lot of jRPG's. Call every rock band of Japan "jrock" makes no sense.

    In fact, a lot of people hate games like BG because the protag is an empty slate you are expected *imprint* everything onto; traits, personality, actual character development. That's not even taking into account for the level of urgency that both by 1and 2 suppose to possess due to the nature of the stories. The urgency and weight of it all are LOST due to the very fact the story takes a back seat where it should be moving the player forward.

    So, if they forces you to be an 15 yo human fighter doesn't matter if you wanna be a sorcerer, assassin or any other class, the story suddenly will become better? How it works? About "story takes the back seat", the game just lets you progress when you wanna progress.

    I tried FF 7 long time ago. After a long conversation with a school friend about RPG's, i trying to explain how cool Might & Magic VII : For Blood an Honor and epic was, the first RPG that i've played in my life, he mentioned FF 7, talked a lot about a lot of things and i decided to try it on my PS1.

    Become bored pretty quickly. Was used to choose everything on my PC RPG's, and now i was being forced to play with an guy who i don't wanna play with. The turn based combat is too simplistic and boring, with slow animations, on M&M i use turn combat a lot, but can move my party location, have recover time, have fast animations, the spells allows unique effects like fly and the combat is much more tactical.

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,500
    it becomes a grey area when you factor in rpgs made in rpg maker. as they are in the style of jrpgs but most are made in america.

    the only difference between a game like nwn, bg, fo and a game like tales, and ff. is in a western rpg you create the character and it's meant to be you and you make choices. while in a jrpg the chracter is set in stone.

    there both still story based. one is just more liner then the other and the other is more open ended.

    but they are still rpgs.

    1. your still going on the heroes journey
    2. your still gathering party members and getting to know them
    3. your mc is still going through a character arc the only difference is you react to it in an wrpg while in a jrpg the character does it on thier own.
    4. combat is still the focus
    5. you gain new skills when you level up.
    6. side quests
    7. you are exploring a setting and learning about the world
    8. you beat the main villain in the end.


    again. they are both rpgs just different styles. saying a jrpg is not an rpg is just not true just because you don't like the way the protags are is silly.

    ThacoBell
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,839
    edited July 2018

    Korea made a lot of jRPG's.

    I think you're confusing JRPG's with KRPG's here. And yes, the K stands for Korean because they are made in Korea. KRPG's are also generally less story focused and are instead all about level grinding and item usage. Well, a large part of it is because the KMMORPG scene outweights the single player KRPG scene in Korea by far.

    ThacoBell
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,861
    edited July 2018


    Again, see the Squire answer. " the J prefix refers to the country that invented that style of game, not the country that created that particular game, otherwise that would get confusing fast"

    Korea made a lot of jRPG's. Call every rock band of Japan "jrock" makes no sense.

    I don't need to see his answer because I'm not the one arguing these semantics, YOU ARE! Idgaf what they are called because I'm not the one arguing they aren't rpgs, YOU ARE!


    So, if they forces you to be an 15 yo human fighter doesn't matter if you wanna be a sorcerer, assassin or any other class, the story suddenly will become better? How it works? About "story takes the back seat", the game just lets you progress when you wanna progress.

    Nice loaded question fallacy you just used there.

    If I want to be a sorcerer, I'm going to play a game that let's me be a freaking sorcerer. I didn't buy the game "Battlemage Lichdom" to be a swordsmen. If I want to eat a steak I'm not going to go to a Vegan restaurant! Giving me multiple classes doesn't make a story better or worse.

    >
    How it works? About "story takes the back seat", the game just lets you progress when you wanna progress.

    You mean like in BG2 where you are actuality you are suppose to be hurrying because imeon had been kidnapped and after that you were supposedly dying and yet things like urgency and suspense are gone because you can spend an infinity amount of freaking days just exploring the world and when you finally continue the story it acts like no time has passed and the player suppose to pretend that they are still invested in their characters safety which has quite literally is never any real penalty for taking your sweet time? Heck even dragon age origins had a penalty for me talking my sweet time at one point in its story.


    I tried FF 7 long time ago. After a long conversation with a school friend about RPG's, i trying to explain how cool Might & Magic VII : For Blood an Honor and epic was, the first RPG that i've played in my life, he mentioned FF 7, talked a lot about a lot of things and i decided to try it on my PS1.

    Become bored pretty quickly. Was used to choose everything on my PC RPG's, and now i was being forced to play with an guy who i don't wanna play with.

    So what? Sounds like your being entitled to be honest. You're use to getting what you want until you came across this game that wasn't going to let you do things your way.


    The turn based combat is too simplistic and boring, with slow animations, on M&M i use turn combat a lot, but can move my party location, have recover time, have fast animations, the spells allows unique effects like fly and the combat is much more tactical.

    Yes this game place differently than another game I like, so its bad.

    Let me take that same approach to boulders gate and compare it to one of my all time favorite games, final fantasy tactics. It's a "jrpg" has around 20 different classes not counting unique ones.

    It's more strategic and tactical than by, with by all you have to do is play like a power gamer and you can basically preplan everything. Heck beat the friggin game once and every time you play by afterwards it gets even easier unless you purposely gimping yourself or using a mod to make it harder.

    FFT has less pointless dialogue trees unlike BG which has 5-6 at a time and they all just lead to just 1 or 2 outcomes .

    The animation of fft is smoother, than BG and actually makes sense visually.

    So on and so on.

    See what I did there, I did the exact same as you. FFT is greatly different from BG both style wise and mechanically that claiming one is better is ultimately subjective to taste and opinion.



    there both still story based. one is just more liner then the other and the other is more open ended.

    When I say story based, I'm.talking story driven, BG isn't driven by the story, but the player. FF is very story driven, well the ones I played anyways. I haven't played the series since X-2

    megamike15ThacoBell
  • SquireSquire Member Posts: 512

    Korea made a lot of jRPG's.

    I think you're confusing JRPG's with KRPG's here. And yes, the K stands for Korean because they are made in Korea. KRPG's are also generally less story focused and are instead all about level grinding and item usage.
    Aren't those called Action RPGs? That sounds a lot like Diablo to me...

    megamike15
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,861
    Squire said:

    Korea made a lot of jRPG's.

    I think you're confusing JRPG's with KRPG's here. And yes, the K stands for Korean because they are made in Korea. KRPG's are also generally less story focused and are instead all about level grinding and item usage.
    Aren't those called Action RPGs? That sounds a lot like Diablo to me...
    Action rpgs focus on the action itself, that's what the elder scroll series is. Wouldn't diablo be a dungeon crawler.

  • Dev6Dev6 Member Posts: 719

    Squire said:

    Korea made a lot of jRPG's.

    I think you're confusing JRPG's with KRPG's here. And yes, the K stands for Korean because they are made in Korea. KRPG's are also generally less story focused and are instead all about level grinding and item usage.
    Aren't those called Action RPGs? That sounds a lot like Diablo to me...
    Action rpgs focus on the action itself, that's what the elder scroll series is. Wouldn't diablo be a dungeon crawler.
    I'm gonna say that Diablo is both an ARPG and a Dungeon Crawler, they're not mutually exclusive. It's a Hack n' Slash too.
    Not sure I'd call the TES series an ARPG.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member Posts: 14,429
    Don't get personal, people. This argument is not worth resorting to disrespectful behavior and breaking the Site Rules. This forum isn't here for anyone to try to "win" a debate.

  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,861
    Dev6 said:

    Squire said:

    Korea made a lot of jRPG's.

    I think you're confusing JRPG's with KRPG's here. And yes, the K stands for Korean because they are made in Korea. KRPG's are also generally less story focused and are instead all about level grinding and item usage.
    Aren't those called Action RPGs? That sounds a lot like Diablo to me...
    Action rpgs focus on the action itself, that's what the elder scroll series is. Wouldn't diablo be a dungeon crawler.
    I'm gonna say that Diablo is both an ARPG and a Dungeon Crawler, they're not mutually exclusive. It's a Hack n' Slash too.
    Not sure I'd call the TES series an ARPG.
    But that's exactly what it is, an ARPG.

    If you trust wiki,

    "Action role-playing video games (abbreviated action RPG or ARPG) are a subgenre of role-playing video games. The games emphasize real-time combat (where the player has direct control over characters) over turn-based or menu-based combat. These games often use action game combat systems similar to hack and slash or shooter games."

    Even wiki about tes called it an action rpg and I stand corrected diablo is also a action rpg.

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,067


    I don't need to see his answer because I'm not the one arguing these semantics, YOU ARE! Idgaf what they are called because I'm not the one arguing they aren't rpgs, YOU ARE!

    Again, i was talking about jRPG as a SUBGENRE


    source https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoBestFriendsPlay/comments/2jst0o/is_dark_souls_a_jrpg/


    If I want to be a sorcerer, I'm going to play a game that let's me be a freaking sorcerer. I didn't buy the game "Battlemage Lichdom" to be a swordsmen. If I want to eat a steak I'm not going to go to a Vegan restaurant! Giving me multiple classes doesn't make a story better or worse.

    But what jRPG(subgenre) allow me to be a sorcerer? or a marksman? What jRPG allow me to be an vampire? To be evil? To be a necromancer? To be an alchemist? An Druid? To be an anti hero?


    You mean like in BG2 where you are actuality you are suppose to be hurrying because imeon had been kidnapped and after that you were supposedly dying and yet things like urgency and suspense are gone because you can spend an infinity amount of freaking days just exploring the world and when you finally continue the story it acts like no time has passed(...)

    The fact that one game failed to implement a time progression or din't even tried doesn't means that is a fault of all wRPG's. For example, on Daggerfall, they give you time to complete a quest and fail in a certain quest have consequences. On the first fallout, there are time limit too. On M&M VI-VIII certain quests like needs to be done in a specific time of the year and your characters age and aging affects his attributes.

    On jRPG's, you can spend 10 eternities farming mobs and .... No time will pass.

    To illustrate how both games are completely different, here is the cover art of 2 famous RPG games.





    Also, what is the apeal of a linear story driven RPG? I mean, i like the story it can increase the gameplay experience, but if i can't do any change, then why not watch a anime? Vampyr is very story driven and the choices are one of the main appeals of the game.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,723
    @SorcererV1ct0r "Again, i was talking about jRPG as a SUBGENRE " I don't care how you or a random person define it. JRPG LITERALLY stands for "Japanese Role Playing Game."

    "But what jRPG(subgenre) allow me to be a sorcerer? or a marksman? What jRPG allow me to be an vampire? To be evil? To be a necromancer? To be an alchemist? An Druid? To be an anti hero? "

    A lot of them. I'm still confused why you keep claiming they can't. Unless of course, you are complaining about games you haven't even played or looked at.

    "On jRPG's, you can spend 10 eternities farming mobs and .... No time will pass."

    WRPGs work the exact same way. You can farm rest spawns in all of the Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter NIghts, etc. games for DAYS and the main quest will never progress. There is literally zero difference here.

    "Also, what is the apeal of a linear story driven RPG? I mean, i like the story it can increase the gameplay experience, but if i can't do any change, then why not watch a anime? Vampyr is very story driven and the choices are one of the main appeals of the game."

    I mean, what is the appeal of an open world non-story driven game? The protaganist is a complete blank slate (boring!), and 99% of the gameplay is just wandering around randomly and not doing anything of consequence. When you finally DO get around to the story, it has no focus or impact, because it has to adjust for player choice to the point where its an unfocused and unsatisfying mess. Oh, and the actual story takes like 8-10 hours to play through. Huh, wow, I can do it too.

    megamike15
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,861
    I don't even have to respond, @ThacoBell basically just did my work for me xD

    I find this quite ironic @SorcererV1ct0r

    "The fact that one game failed to implement a time progression or din't even tried doesn't means that is a fault of all wRPG's."

    Please tell me im not the only one seeing the irony in this. Also just for your FYI, all those classes you just mentioned, alchemist, marksmen, sorcerer, druid? I just mentioned a jrpg where you can be all that. It goes by the name Fina Fantasy Tactics.

    ThacoBell
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,500
    edited July 2018
    "why not watch an anime"

    so your using the " why play a video game for story when you can just read a book?" argument i see.

    ThacoBell
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,861
    Why play a rpg to make your own character when you can draw it yourself, and then write out your own story for it?

    Wait, im not the only one that does this am I?

    ThacoBell
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,067
    edited July 2018
    ThacoBell said:

    I don't care how you or a random person define it. JRPG LITERALLY stands for "Japanese Role Playing Game."

    Look, see the answer of megamike who you liked "it becomes a grey area when you factor in rpgs made in rpg maker. as they are in the style of jrpgs but most are made in america. "

    or "not all jrpgs are made in japan either. some are from korea. "


    "A lot of them. I'm still confused why you keep claiming they can't. Unless of course, you are complaining about games you haven't even played or looked at."


    Please. Name one jRPG with an sorcerer main character or with an crossbow user. And with an adult protagonist. Just one.


    "WRPGs work the exact same way. You can farm rest spawns in all of the Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter NIghts, etc. games for DAYS and the main quest will never progress. There is literally zero difference here".


    Read what i've said about M&M VI-VIII and about Fallout 1/2 and Daggerfall. Sure, most wRPG's have no time progression, but i never saw a single jRPG with it.


    "The protaganist is a complete blank slate (boring!), and 99% of the gameplay is just wandering around randomly and not doing anything of consequence.
    "

    Modern AAA wRPG's, i agree that most are but when you are talking about classics, the story is different. Killing NPC's on Morrowind have consequences, while on Oblivion/Skyrim you can't even kill the NPC's. I will not spoil the story, but the storyline of Morrowind is much more mature too.

    About hte protagonist be a blank slate, if you can't create an character who is interesting to play, is not the games fault and there are games with a fix protagonist, see vampyr and witcher. Vampyr is very story rich and story driven. And Mount & Blade have a lot of battles with consequences. Lost a siege on M&B have a lot of consequences, raiding too.

    Why play a rpg to make your own character when you can draw it yourself, and then write out your own story for it?

    The immersion isn't the same

    I
    Please tell me im not the only one seeing the irony in this. Also just for your FYI, all those classes you just mentioned, alchemist, marksmen, sorcerer, druid? I just mentioned a jrpg where you can be all that. It goes by the name Fina Fantasy Tactics.

    I will look to that game. But one question, will be "the MC can use magic but will never be good as a side character with better status"?

    "why not watch an anime"

    so your using the " why play a video game for story when you can just read a book?" argument i see.

    Partially. I like video games to do things that i can't do in real life. I can enjoy a story without video games, i can practice with swords in real life. But i can't command an undead army like on M&B Phantasy Calradia and siege a city. Story when it increases immersion is good, when the story makes you deal with harsh decisions is good too. Great stories are great, but not the main reason to play a video game.

    IMHO i rather have a story with more a focus on World building than in character building. VtMB IMHO have an amazing world building, each clan is unique. The unique thing that i don't like is the fact that VtM inspires a lot in Christianity. Why no vampire game explores Slavic paganism? Vampire is a slavic folklore creature and i never saw any vampire game exploring slavic mythology.

This discussion has been closed.