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jRPG's aren't RPGs.

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  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,520

    Estelle Bright from the first two trails in the sky games uses a staff

    Kevin Graham from the 3rd uses a cross bow

    all the main characters from the mother series uses a baseball bat

    the main chracter of suikoden 1,2 and 5 don't use a sword

    you start out with a sword in persona 3 but you can use other weapons unless your plying the psp version

    of course theres pokemon.

    fei from xenogears uses his fists and kung fu

    and shion from xenosaga uses an arm canon

    I'll add a few more.

    -Atelier Iris stars Klein Kiesling, a young alchemist who uses a cane. Most all of the Atelier games feature alchemists as their protagonists.

    -Tales of Legendia, Tales of Xillia, and Tales of Berseria all star protagonists who fight with their fists/claws. (And Xillia is the first entry in the series to feature a female sword-wielding protagonist!)

    -Resonance of Fate. Everyone uses guns. (And this one has quite the difficult battle system too...)

    -Ni No Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch. Protagonist uses a wand and magic.

    -Shin Megami Tensei 3: Nocturne. Nocturne is...weird.

    -The Wild Arms series features an Old American West inspired setting. Most all the characters use guns.

    -Lunar 2: Eternal Blue. Uses a boomerang.

    -Technically Zidane from Final Fantasy 9 doesn't use a sword, but dual-wields daggers.

    Also, most Tales games let you play as different members of the cast, all with varying combat styles.

    I didn't mention strategy RPGs because each one features SO MANY CHARACTERS of varying weapon styles, all of which you get to control because...well...that's the strategy genre. :P

    FinneousPJThacoBellmashedtaters
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,995
    Japan has exported nothing culturally worthwhile since Speed Racer.

    Okay, and Takuma Sato shrieking after he won the Indy 500.

  • AlmateriaAlmateria Member Posts: 257
    edited June 2018
    Yeah, they're usually good.

    e: forums ate my witty emojis and now i sound like an ass

  • NimranNimran Member Posts: 4,848
    Dragon’s Dogma is a jrpg (an rpg from Japan), and you can create your own character and make choices that effect the story. Granted, it’s one of the few that actually allow you to create your own character, but it exists. I wish they would make more like that, Japan is great at producing good stories. How great would it be if that same storytelling ability was combined with character customizability more often?

    mashedtatersThacoBell
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 1,768
    edited June 2018
    Squire said:



    I understand why people like jRPG. People who have no problem role playing a boring character or don't think that the character is boring can enjoy the game... Honestly, i was wrong. jRPGs are RPG games, i just don't like then because the main character.

    I feel the same way, tbh, I find it difficult to get through a game if I don't like the protagonist. You have to spend the entirity of the game in this person's shoes, so if you can't identify with him (or her but, as you say, it's usually a him in these games), it's going to make it difficult.

    I also agree about the whole teenager thing, although tbf, I think that's partly because fantasy RPGs are usually based on the medieval period, which is a time in which you were basically a man at, like, 12, and 40 was considered venerable. :lol:

    I don't play JRPGs either, but for me it's mainly the whole anime-style look and feel that puts me off. I'm just not a fan of that style, and prefer things to look a bit more... well, medieval. I found Dragon Age's armour sets difficult to deal with.
    I agree with almost everything. About "anime style", animes have very different styles. JoJo looks very different compared to Naruto. What i particularly like on JoJo is not the animation. Is that the protagonist uses his brain against stronger enemies, instead of "power of friendship".

    This is a anime and honestly, i think that the animation style will not be a problem for you

    it seems the ops real issue is less jrpgs and more that he finds the main characters boring. while i disagree as there are alot of well developed ones. i don't see how this is any different from wrpgs where besides chracters like Geralt. most are black slates ment to be you.

    Never said that they are bad protagonists, only that i don't like then and found one very similar to other. In age, personality, fighting style, etc; if you dislike one, you dislike most of then.

    When you are writing novel or a game in a fantastic world, you can create deep and immersive system. For example, necromancy. Many games limit your summons to only one summon and NWN is a game that have this fault(despite the D&D rules being different)

    Honestly, one reason to prefer IWD and Baldur's GAte over NWN is conjuration and necromancy who aren't like PnP. If i can use tons of custom modules on IWD...

    Maybe there are a jRPG who i will gonna like. I never liked much mmorpg ultil i found Age of Conan and talking about minions, AoC have the best necromancer in all MMORPG genre.


    Only one more question. If IWD/BG/NWN forces you yo play with a human fighter with a fix age(16 y), fix race, fix religion, do you think that this games will be popular?
    Nimran said:

    Dragon’s Dogma is a jrpg (an rpg from Japan), and you can create your own character and make choices that effect the story. Granted, it’s one of the few that actually allow you to create your own character, but it exists. I wish they would make more like that, Japan is great at producing good stories. How great would it be if that same storytelling ability was combined with character customizability more often?

    Well, i liked Dragon's Dogma, have 65 hours on it, completed the game on hard but honestly, if they forced me to play with the prologue character, i will probably drop the game... When i talk about jRPG, i talk about this games ultra linear who give no choice...

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,135
    edited June 2018
    you are a fixed age in baldurs gate. 20

    also going back to cloud he is 21. as is yuri from tales of vesperia.

    you have to remember that jrpgs and to an extent anime is first and foremost for japanese teenagers. they don't like playing as anyone older then 17 because they can't relate to them. there are exceptions but there is reason a common joke in anime/jrpgs is a 30 year old is considered an old man. it's just differences in culture.

    ThacoBell
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 1,768
    edited June 2018

    you are a fixed age in baldurs gate. 20

    also going back to cloud he is 21. as is yuri from tales of vesperia.

    you have to remember that jrpgs and to an extent anime is first and foremost for japanese teenagers. they don't like playing as anyone older then 17 because they can't relate to them. there are exceptions but there is reason a common joke in anime/jrpgs is a 30 year old is considered an old man. it's just differences in culture.

    But most animes are made for Japanese teenager and the western public is a bonus, despite it, see how Jonathan Joestar, Lelouch vi Britannia and Naruto are different despite all being shonen protagonists. Or see how Ainz Ooal Gown, Shiroe and Kirito are different despite all being protagonists of Isekai anime.

    On anime there are diversity of protagonists. Honestly, i see more diversity on a mmorpg like Age of Conan than in all jrpgs that i have saw. Necromancer = minion, Herald of Xotli = shapechange + fire weapon, Demonologist = Blast everything at distance, even respecting my electric demo for a pure fire and then hybrid demo changed a lot the gameplay. For non casters, there are a great difference too between a Dark Templar and a Guardian and both are "tanks"

    This that i an comparing to a mmorpg and mmorpgs tends to be much more homogenized than single player RPG's. Honestly, i think taht there are more diversity on NWN main character than in all jRPGs MC...

  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 1,921
    If a JRPG character isn't using a sword, he's using a staff and is heavily based on Journey to the West. Accurate enough to be a general rule.

  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,761

    you have to remember that jrpgs and to an extent anime is first and foremost for japanese teenagers. they don't like playing as anyone older then 17 because they can't relate to them. there are exceptions but there is reason a common joke in anime/jrpgs is a 30 year old is considered an old man. it's just differences in culture.

    A fallacy that target group is somehow unable to understand/relate to characters that doesn't fit their demohraphic is pretty much western thing. Not Japanese.

    ArdanisThacoBell
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 1,768
    edited June 2018
    O_Bruce said:

    you have to remember that jrpgs and to an extent anime is first and foremost for japanese teenagers. they don't like playing as anyone older then 17 because they can't relate to them. there are exceptions but there is reason a common joke in anime/jrpgs is a 30 year old is considered an old man. it's just differences in culture.

    A fallacy that target group is somehow unable to understand/relate to characters that doesn't fit their demohraphic is pretty much western thing. Not Japanese.
    I agree. There are much more eastern mmorpgs with gender locked classes/characters than western mmos. Same for SP games, anyone here thinks that Dragon's Dogma will be popular on west if you need to play with the prologue character and can't create your character and pawn? Of if IWD/BG have a fix party?

    Anyway, people who say that more linear games tends to have better story are partially right. Is more easy to create a deph story for a character that to create a good story for a warlock, a necromancer, a druid, a shapeshift druid, a marksman, a swordsman etc, etc, etc and can be a human, elf, dwarf, celestial, half demon, etc, etc, etc. But this doesn't means that is impossible. Dragon Age Origins IMHO have a amazing story and most of your choices matters.

    My problem with jRPG is the MC. The closest thing to a linear jRPG that i've liked was Dirge of Cerberus.

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 1,768
    Sorry for casting animate topic here, but one question.

    Do you classify Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma as jrpgs?

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,288
    Yes. They are RPGS that came from Japan. Just because its eastern, doesn't mean they can't innovate.

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 1,768
    edited July 2018
    ThacoBell said:

    Yes. They are RPGS that came from Japan. Just because its eastern, doesn't mean they can't innovate.

    Thanks. I liked both.

    IMHO depends. If you define a jRPG as a RPG made on Japan, both are but if you consider a jRPG as a "subgenre", then they aren't. But honestly, i realized that my problem with "jrpg'(subgenre) is the MC. NWN1 is my favorite RPG but if i need to play with an human fighter character(at 12-16 years old) using an oversized sword instead of choosing my race, religion, background story, attributes, class, etc, i will not gonna like nwn1... I like games like IWD exactly because a character is very different than another. On NWN1, my sorcerer playtrough and my druid playtrough was completely new experiences, despite both being casters.

    About story, i rather play a game with a mature story like on VtMB but i will not gonna stop playing a game only cuz i din't liked the story.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,288
    It still works as a subgenre. The subgenre of RPGs that come from Japan. That's literally what JRPG means.

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,135
    even tho alot of the early wrpg like might and magic and wizardy can be counted as jrpgs.

    tbone1
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 1,768

    even tho alot of the early wrpg like might and magic and wizardy can be counted as jrpgs.

    I don't think so. M&M1 allow you to create an custom character. The first ultima game too. The "no choices on story" are mostly due hardware limitations.
    ThacoBell said:

    It still works as a subgenre. The subgenre of RPGs that come from Japan. That's literally what JRPG means.

    Well, look to kpop, not all music who come from korea is technically a kpop. The label "k pop" is cuz pop music on Korea is very different than "western" pop music.

    Same for "jrpg". See this video :



    Yes, he is right that in general a "specific" character allows a better story telling. Is more easy to make an story for a for example elf druid, exploring in depth how he grow up, why he is a druid, character faults, etc than make a story who the player can be anything between a human fighter to a half orc wizard specialized on necromancy. You can't explore the particularity of every class. But is possible. On Arcanum for example, if you are a elf magician, people will treat you differently than if you are an a dwarf gunsmith and it impacts on the narrative.

    The story of NWN:HoTU is not bad either.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,288

    even tho alot of the early wrpg like might and magic and wizardy can be counted as jrpgs.

    No they can't. Literally the only qualify for JRPG vs. WRPG is where they were made. Might and Magic and Wizardry are firmly WRPGS, being made in the west.

    @SorcererV1ct0r Kpop is only called Kpop when tis from Korea. From Japan its Jpop. Making up your own definitions doesn't overwrite the actual existing definition of a term.

  • voidofopinionvoidofopinion Member Posts: 1,242
    A few things:
    • All RPG's follow the heroes journey.
    • Hironobu Sakaguchi is a massive Ultima, Wizardry and D&D fan and Final Fantasy was a (very successful) attempt at selling western RPG design and theme to the Japanese audience.
    • Anime has not been targeting Japanese teenagers as a core demographic since 1989 when Akira hit US shores. Akira made $5.6 million domestic and $49 million global. This created a massive shift in focus from Japanese to Western audiences when producing mainstream anime as well as the Anime boom of the 90's.

    semiticgodThacoBell
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 1,855

    A few things:

    • Anime has not been targeting Japanese teenagers as a core demographic since 1989 when Akira hit US shores. Akira made $5.6 million domestic and $49 million global. This created a massive shift in focus from Japanese to Western audiences when producing mainstream anime as well as the Anime boom of the 90's.
    What are you on

  • AlmateriaAlmateria Member Posts: 257
    jRPGs usually have good, engaging stories, and wRPGs don't, and that's, indeed, what separates the two

    ThacoBellmegamike15Dev6
  • voidofopinionvoidofopinion Member Posts: 1,242
    edited July 2018
    scriver said:

    A few things:

    • Anime has not been targeting Japanese teenagers as a core demographic since 1989 when Akira hit US shores. Akira made $5.6 million domestic and $49 million global. This created a massive shift in focus from Japanese to Western audiences when producing mainstream anime as well as the Anime boom of the 90's.
    What are you on

    Economics!



    But if you want to get technical the US market was only an influencer on Anime in the 90s and early 00s, today the foreign market anime producers are trying to capture is China.

    Post edited by voidofopinion on
  • civian1991civian1991 Member Posts: 57
    PREACH

    Trying to find a new RPG game to play on Steam, nothing but 20 pages of JPRG's. Stahp already

  • SquireSquire Member Posts: 512
    So, I decided to try a JRPG... I picked up Final Fantasy 7 on Steam for cheap. It's the one with the ridiculously oversized sword (yeah... the less said about that the better! :lol: ). This one came most recommended by the people I asked.

    My thoughts so far: I seem to spend more time watching than I do playing, and gameplay is limited at best. I feel like I'm pretty much walking to the next cut scene so I can sit here pressing X to go through all the dialogue. It's early days yet, and I'm going to stick with it, but so far it seems there's much more focus on storytelling than actual gameplay, to the point where it might as well be an interactive movie.

    The storytelling looks like it's pretty good, from what I've seen so far, and I do find myself wanting to know more (such as wth is Cloud's problem with everyone/thing? :lol: (don't spoil it, I'm sure I'll find out eventually)), but I have to say I'm not a fan of this type of gameplay. I prefer to live the story, and help write it my own way, than to simply watch it. But I guess that's down to personal preference.

    I'm planning to do a video on this, although it'll likely just be me taking the piss the whole time, but I'll let you know when I have if you're interested. ;)

  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,738
    This argument is seriously still happening?

    NonnahswriterThacoBell
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,738
  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,716
    That's an imposter, I'm the real Archer.

  • voidofopinionvoidofopinion Member Posts: 1,242
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,135
    this argument should have died years ago. but it keeps happening and it will never end.

    again i like both. and when i said older wrpgs may as well be jrpgs. well they did inspire jrpgs so i'm kinda right.

    ultima may as well be a jrpg as everything about it was the reason dragon quest was made.

    voidofopinionThacoBell
This discussion has been closed.