The argument for and against paid beta testers is a complete nonsense.
It is this. Some members on this forum have played this bug ridden game (even though I love this game down to my mummified toes, this a truth) for over 15 years. They are the experts. Reporting issues is another matter, but a lot of training has gone on behind the scenes.
The misdirected hate is a nonsense. Why would you not want an open, honest communicative games developer? The gold standard is being set here!
Exactly, couldn't have said it any better. The test matrix is phenomenally high for a video game (or any other large chuck of complex software); there's no humanly possibly way to cover all of the scenarios across multiple platforms/machines on a shoestring budget, and there are many in the community who just in general love to be involved anyway. So, yes, leverage that! I find arguments to keep that sort of acceptance testing sealed internally to be counter-productive; if anything, I'd argue that companies that are doing it that stodgy old way are doing it wrong. For my own (extremely large) product, although we do all of the hard lifting on the programming, we definitely let the customers kick the tires and tell us where we've gotten it wrong through frequent non-beta previews -- it's nerve-wracking sometimes to air it out like that (especially for the open-source parts, which are always under scrutiny 24/7), but I wouldn't have it any other way -- it fosters a great relationship and leads to better software. Kudos to BeamDog for doing it this way.
Testing the sandal boot function. Chat names redacted.
Just to clarify, that was me. That was the very first time I had ever used it. I actually thought it might have been some sort of configuration button given that the icon was so small on my low resolution laptop screen. Needless to say, it worked 100% as a boot...
Amen to that, @Tresset. I've never played BG multiplayer with more than 1 other person, so for me playing it with 5 others was a blast! Its stability just needs to be vastly improved and then the multiplayer will be truly Enhanced.
Testing the sandal boot function. Chat names redacted.
Just to clarify, that was me. That was the very first time I had ever used it. I actually thought it might have been some sort of configuration button given that the icon was so small on my low resolution laptop screen. Needless to say, it worked 100% as a boot...
Not my proudest moment, I'll be honest.
The same thing happened to me when we first started testing multiplayer.
@Gate70@Tresset@CrevsDaak@Flashburn@Shandyr@Troodon80 In light of your teamwork in tracking down that one issue I've given you each a unique "Favored Enemy: Multiplayer" badge. I can't tell you how many hours I spent trying to track that one down.
Thank you very much, Dee. Over the course of two days of bug-hunting, @Anduin put up with a day's worth of crashing as well, so I think he deserves the badge too.
Thank you very much, Dee. Over the course of two days of bug-hunting, @Anduin put up with a day's worth of crashing as well, so I think he deserves the badge too.
The same thing happened to me when we first started testing multiplayer.
It was also the last time anyone let me host.
My error only dawned on me when "You kicked him" appeared in the chat. I was a bit conflicted: I did what? :-( Oh no... =-O The reactions were amusing :-D
Poor Crevs. Took him a while to connect as well.
I have about twenty hours of video game multiplayer under my belt for my entire life, and that's split between BG:EE, Turok 2: Seeds of Evil, and Hydro Thunder. I think my lack of knowledge can be forgiven this once. :-)
If you manage to improve upon the multiplayer stability of BG:EE, I may end up playing it more.
I hope it's not to late to add one more thing: Make it so where "You must gather your party before venturing forth" doesn't sound off a half dozen times when I try to go somewhere with everyone. Oh god. So annoying.
I hope it's not to late to add one more thing: Make it so where "You must gather your party before venturing forth" doesn't sound off a half dozen times when I try to go somewhere with everyone. Oh god. So annoying.
I like to think of it as Sarevok experimenting with psychological warfare (since it's his voice and all).
I think you guys @Wraith_Sarevok@Adul@shawne are unfair for @Dee and the others that work hard to get us this patch and this game better and enjoyable as much as they can. [...]
To be honest, I don't understand why we have a counter and a poll where the community votes on whether they think the patch is ready for release. Even if that was a desirable method for QA, how is one person in the wider community (not actual beta testers) supposed to assess that situation? We have no access to bug listings and we lack insight into what work has been and is being done on the game outside of a handful of beta patch notes. So why are we voting on it? It seems to me that people are voting ready because they're eager for the patch to be out while Beamdog is pre-shifting blame from themselves in case the patch turns out to be a bugfest because then they can just say that the community voted for the patch to be released.
And regardless of these public beta tests, the fixes that would be required take far too long to materialize. I've been waiting for a BG2 patch to address the frankly horrendous multiplayer situation in that game since its release, and as of now there is still no comfort in sight.
I still don't get why one patch can be so bloody important.
The game is perfectly functional as it is. It's more so than many other games in the markets, many of which remain riddled with bugs and glitches and issues - and their developers never even bother about them at all. But do they get any hate about it? No, not usually.
Then when a developer does actually say they are going to do something about it, you people complain that they take too long! As soon as there's a glimmer of a chance of something, you will tear it open in your rage and entitlement.
Maybe it's true that seven months for a patch is quite a long time, but it's still just a patch. People like @Wraith_Sarevok need to look into mirror and rethink about their lives.
Besides, version 1.19 for Diablo II took years. There's still plenty of time before that record is broken.
@Troodon80 don't worry, I laughed a lot when that happened (well, and when I realized that the game luckily didn't crash).
@Tresset yep, that moment was hilarious! Also, this made me laugh a lot too. And, yes, we used CRTL+R a little, since the Mustard Slimes and the Mage were beating us (read: Troodon was subsequently getting killed with Flame Arrow) every time.
@Chow The reason it was fine for Blizzard to take years with the 1.19 patch for Diablo 2 (or even not releasing a patch at that point at all) is that D2 was perfectly playable before the 1.19 patch. BG2:EE multiplayer is not. I think it's ironic that you mentioned that other games are sometimes "riddled with bugs and glitches and issues", because in my experience that description fits BG2 multiplayer in its current state rather accurately.
Wait why is elminster in the front row (second slot)? Were y'all trying to kill me off?
You've been killed 2 times actually, one was in the hands of Troodon, where you, as a Necromancer raised yourself form the dead, the second was in hands of Gate70, he was using a Wand of Missiles over Narcilius, when a Mustard Slime killed him, he also resurrected himself again.
You've been killed 2 times actually, one was in the hands of Troodon, where you, as a Necromancer raised yourself form the dead, the second was in hands of Gate70, he was using a Wand of Missiles over Narcilius, when a Mustard Slime killed him, he also resurrected himself again.
That must have been something similar to Elminster's Evasion (the spell) at work
Because the longer Beamdog fiddles around with it, the more time it takes them to move on to BG2:EE, which is anything but perfectly functional.
Pretty much the one single reason I want this patch to come out; it's holding BGII:EE hostage. And BGII needs a patch far more than the first game which, while not perfect, is quite playable.
I think you guys @Wraith_Sarevok@Adul@shawne are unfair for @Dee and the others that work hard to get us this patch and this game better and enjoyable as much as they can. [...]
To be honest, I don't understand why we have a counter and a poll where the community votes on whether they think the patch is ready for release. Even if that was a desirable method for QA, how is one person in the wider community (not actual beta testers) supposed to assess that situation? We have no access to bug listings and we lack insight into what work has been and is being done on the game outside of a handful of beta patch notes. So why are we voting on it? It seems to me that people are voting ready because they're eager for the patch to be out while Beamdog is pre-shifting blame from themselves in case the patch turns out to be a bugfest because then they can just say that the community voted for the patch to be released.
And regardless of these public beta tests, the fixes that would be required take far too long to materialize. I've been waiting for a BG2 patch to address the frankly horrendous multiplayer situation in that game since its release, and as of now there is still no comfort in sight.
The counter is to give our opinions it not really matter if we know all the list bugs or not, it about what we see in the beta now and not everyone vote "yes release" I didn't vote that yet, and before Dee set the counter to zero he did said that there was 2 vote against releasing the patch.
It true that the release of the patch taking a long time but they have there reasons that we as customers can't know them all just what they tell as like the platform cross over issue. But I'm willing to wait for the release of the patches because it will be worth it and the fact they still working on the games and they care about them says a lot for me. As for BG2EE I'm waiting for the update as well to play it even tho I have the game since release.
I hope it's not to late to add one more thing: Make it so where "You must gather your party before venturing forth" doesn't sound off a half dozen times when I try to go somewhere with everyone. Oh god. So annoying.
I like to think of it as Sarevok experimenting with psychological warfare (since it's his voice and all).
People are referencing my psychological warfare tactics? Excellent
@kaguana: No. Sorry, but no. It's been seven months for 1.3 (so far), and it was a year for 1.2 before that. No single patch should ever take that long, especially when there are bigger problems they're ignoring in the interim.
You want to be a beta tester? Enjoy, and more power to you. I didn't pay $50 so I could do the devs' dirty work for them, especially when this whole "community bug-hunt" program hasn't actually led to faster problem-solving anyway.
While I agree that the 1.3 Patch is taking forever, and that Beamdog's "soon" differs from a lot of what people have in mind when you tell them "soon", but as someone with access to the bug tracker, I can say the later half of your post is patently false. All, or nearly all, bugs reported during the last few days (such as those from the Bug Hunt Palooza) have been fixed. A few outstanding issues remain, and those are the ones being worked on right now. I wish I could post the bugs that have been fixed since the last public beta update, but I count around 20 new bugs crushed, many of them related to multiplayer (which seems to be a big thing for some). Dee said the "internal list" had about 210 items on June 23rd, there's closer to 280 items. [The discrepancy with my bug fix count is because the internal lists includes more than just bug fixes].
This is 2014. No amount of internal beta testing can possibly accommodate all play style, all class/spell/quest progression combinations, all platforms, and all hardware combinations. You didn't pay 50$ for anything. BG:EE was 20$ at its priciest. If you don't want to beta test it, that's fine, no one has to do that. But there's absolutely nothing preventing you from playing BGEE 1.2 while 1.3 is being finalized.
And there's also a misconception that the BGEE patch is "holding off" the BG2EE patch. Both are being worked on, and because of the shared engine, progress on BGEE patch means progress on BG2EE patch.
As for BG2EE I'm waiting for the update as well to play it even tho I have the game since release.
Well you're a far more patient person than I am, then. I don't like buying a product and then waiting for months and months while the people who sold it to me fix it. I didn't get a refund because the single player in BG2:EE is quite playable, but multiplayer is an important part of the game (for me) that seems to have been ignored during development and since release.
There are numerous folks on my Steam friends list who have been playing and are continuing to play BG:EE and BG2:EE. A few have even completed a playthrough. All of this without Patch 1.3! You wouldn't think that possible now, would you. Maybe it's because they simply started a playthrough rather than reading a fix-log and delaying because there's a chance they could encounter one of the listed quirks.
As with the Enhanced Edition when it first released it was the little things that pleased me the most, such as the ability to zoom the camera, and a proper journal. Now it's the in-game toggle for font size in tandem with the Unscaled UI! Excellent features to haul the game into modern times without incessant layering of one patch on top of another, in order, with a wrapper, and praying it stays stable.
Seeing so many folks on my friends list playing BG:EE and BG2:EE certainly does stir the desire to start a new playthrough right this instant. It's great to experience the buzz when everyone is playing the same game. My best friend has almost completed his first ever playthrough of Baldur's Gate. If not for the Enhanced Edition he would never have achieved this.
As for BG2EE I'm waiting for the update as well to play it even tho I have the game since release.
Well you're a far more patient person than I am, then. I don't like buying a product and then waiting for months and months while the people who sold it to me fix it. I didn't get a refund because the single player in BG2:EE is quite playable, but multiplayer is an important part of the game (for me) that seems to have been ignored during development and since release.
You know it isn't being ignore all this fix on BG1EE are being forward for BG2EE and Dee said that one of those bugs was hard on him to find and because the hunt event he could finally found it and it was being fix and it not the only bug that was found and fix in the multiplayer realm which is a very good news and all thanks is for the people who voluntarily participated in the hunt event (I would have join too if I could but unfortunately I got a big important exam to study to) so you should thanks them. As for other bugs in BG2EE I bet there is work on that as well.
I'm patient because I know the wait is worth it!! you are right it no fun to wait but that how thing is so why to be so impatient about it and not just enjoy what one got ?
@RnRClown I know it playable and can be completed but I rather wait for the update for it so I can enjoy it less bugy
And there's also a misconception that the BGEE patch is "holding off" the BG2EE patch. Both are being worked on, and because of the shared engine, progress on BGEE patch means progress on BG2EE patch.
They've said we're not getting a BGII:EE patch until the one for BG:EE and the Android release of BGII:EE is done. This is not a misconception, it is fact. And as long as they're working on the BG:EE patch that's less work being done on BGII:EE. Overhaul does not have several big teams, they cannot do everything at once. Also, all the engine work in the world doesn't help if there's a problem with the content, nor does engine upgrades neccessarily happen at the same time. There was no loot button for the first game, for instance, even though 1.2 launched for both games the very same day.
So yes, we are the mercy of 1.3 here. Not to the degree that nothing is being done for BGII, but certainly a lot less. And a lot less makes a big difference with Overhaul's manpower and resources being what they are. So that's why some of us wants this patch to just finally release so they can get on with BGII. Because it's well past being due.
Again, I have access to the bug tracker and I can tell you this is miles off the track.
Progress on the BG2EE isn't hampered by work on BG2EE, right now BGEE 1.3 is being finalized. Content and features fixes are mostly done for BGEE, unless a critical bug is discovered. Meaning what remains to be done is mostly tying up a few lose ends, and make sure everything is running on a wide array of configurations. This is the brunt of the activity on the BGEE tracker.
As this is happening, people who don't focus on the "tying up the loose ends" in BGEE are doing content fixes and feature development on BG2EE. Both BGEE and BG2EE trackers are as active as the other. But it doesn't make any sense to try and finalize the next BG2EE patch at this point when it's still being expanded in scope.
Comments
Not my proudest moment, I'll be honest.
It was also the last time anyone let me host.
In light of your teamwork in tracking down that one issue I've given you each a unique "Favored Enemy: Multiplayer" badge. I can't tell you how many hours I spent trying to track that one down.
Poor Crevs. Took him a while to connect as well.
I have about twenty hours of video game multiplayer under my belt for my entire life, and that's split between BG:EE, Turok 2: Seeds of Evil, and Hydro Thunder. I think my lack of knowledge can be forgiven this once. :-)
If you manage to improve upon the multiplayer stability of BG:EE, I may end up playing it more.
And regardless of these public beta tests, the fixes that would be required take far too long to materialize. I've been waiting for a BG2 patch to address the frankly horrendous multiplayer situation in that game since its release, and as of now there is still no comfort in sight.
The game is perfectly functional as it is. It's more so than many other games in the markets, many of which remain riddled with bugs and glitches and issues - and their developers never even bother about them at all. But do they get any hate about it? No, not usually.
Then when a developer does actually say they are going to do something about it, you people complain that they take too long! As soon as there's a glimmer of a chance of something, you will tear it open in your rage and entitlement.
Maybe it's true that seven months for a patch is quite a long time, but it's still just a patch. People like @Wraith_Sarevok need to look into mirror and rethink about their lives.
Besides, version 1.19 for Diablo II took years. There's still plenty of time before that record is broken.
@Tresset yep, that moment was hilarious! Also, this made me laugh a lot too.
And, yes, we used CRTL+R a little, since the Mustard Slimes and the Mage were beating us (read: Troodon was subsequently getting killed with Flame Arrow) every time.
It's not surprising at all that developers are reaching out to customers who are interested in helping out.
It true that the release of the patch taking a long time but they have there reasons that we as customers can't know them all just what they tell as like the platform cross over issue. But I'm willing to wait for the release of the patches because it will be worth it and the fact they still working on the games and they care about them says a lot for me. As for BG2EE I'm waiting for the update as well to play it even tho I have the game since release.
This is 2014. No amount of internal beta testing can possibly accommodate all play style, all class/spell/quest progression combinations, all platforms, and all hardware combinations. You didn't pay 50$ for anything. BG:EE was 20$ at its priciest. If you don't want to beta test it, that's fine, no one has to do that. But there's absolutely nothing preventing you from playing BGEE 1.2 while 1.3 is being finalized.
And there's also a misconception that the BGEE patch is "holding off" the BG2EE patch. Both are being worked on, and because of the shared engine, progress on BGEE patch means progress on BG2EE patch.
As with the Enhanced Edition when it first released it was the little things that pleased me the most, such as the ability to zoom the camera, and a proper journal. Now it's the in-game toggle for font size in tandem with the Unscaled UI! Excellent features to haul the game into modern times without incessant layering of one patch on top of another, in order, with a wrapper, and praying it stays stable.
Seeing so many folks on my friends list playing BG:EE and BG2:EE certainly does stir the desire to start a new playthrough right this instant. It's great to experience the buzz when everyone is playing the same game. My best friend has almost completed his first ever playthrough of Baldur's Gate. If not for the Enhanced Edition he would never have achieved this.
As for other bugs in BG2EE I bet there is work on that as well.
I'm patient because I know the wait is worth it!! you are right it no fun to wait but that how thing is so why to be so impatient about it and not just enjoy what one got ?
@RnRClown I know it playable and can be completed but I rather wait for the update for it so I can enjoy it less bugy
So yes, we are the mercy of 1.3 here. Not to the degree that nothing is being done for BGII, but certainly a lot less. And a lot less makes a big difference with Overhaul's manpower and resources being what they are. So that's why some of us wants this patch to just finally release so they can get on with BGII. Because it's well past being due.
Progress on the BG2EE isn't hampered by work on BG2EE, right now BGEE 1.3 is being finalized. Content and features fixes are mostly done for BGEE, unless a critical bug is discovered. Meaning what remains to be done is mostly tying up a few lose ends, and make sure everything is running on a wide array of configurations. This is the brunt of the activity on the BGEE tracker.
As this is happening, people who don't focus on the "tying up the loose ends" in BGEE are doing content fixes and feature development on BG2EE. Both BGEE and BG2EE trackers are as active as the other. But it doesn't make any sense to try and finalize the next BG2EE patch at this point when it's still being expanded in scope.