Slightly OT but why do powerful mages like Tethoril and Gorion have such shit loot? Especially Gorion, he had been an adventurer for ages! I mean, he is probably 70 in BG1, so that means he stopped adventuring at 50. If he started at 20 he should have LOADS of magic items!!!
Well, now that I think about it, Tethoril lives in Beregosts red light district so that explains where all his gold vent. But Gorion? Really bad black lotus addiction?
Not my most epic moment but I did enjoy wiping the floor with the Demon Knights in the Underdark yesterday without taking a single HP of damage
It’s not a huge achievement given my character is a level 25/21 fighter/illusionist and I was buffed like a demigod. Stoneskin, Mirror Image, Blur, Protection from Energy, SI Abjuration, SI Conjuration, Spell Shield, Improved Invisibility and most importantly Improved Haste (9 APR!).
I used Mordy’s Sword to summon the 5 Demon Knights and then used the Staff of Elemental Mastery (Item Upgrades) to summon the 3 elementals as soon as fight started. They were only distraction fodder that I didn’t really need and the earth and air elemental were quickly destroyed by the 20d6 fireballs that the Demon Knights each have (the Fire Elemental naturally was not affected). In the meantime my PC wiped out each Demon Knight in about 5 seconds. It was literally a blur of destruction - bang, bang, bang, bang (Flail of Ages), run to the next and repeat. Did not take a single scratch, was slightly embarrassing how easy it was.
General point is that any F/M that has safe saving throws (easy enough with e.g. Potion of Invulnerability) only needs a handful of spells to be both indestructible and a dervish of destruction: PFMW (or Stoneskin/Mirror Image), Protection from Fire, SI Abjuration, Spell Shield, Improved Invisibility and Improved Haste = utter devastation. It is fun to watch
I was fighting two djinn, my very last spell wild surged and my character said "whats that over there" but nothing happen. Needless to say, my mc died but then a wild surge brought him back to life and reset all my spells. Even my mc in game was confused
so last night i was fighting the black dragon in the elven city and normally i hate this fight because insect swarm is basically unfair on insane because its a death sentence for anyone who has less than 100 HP basically
so anyways i thought of a creative way to take this clown out, and it worked like a charm
first, i had my sorcerer spell trigger up to 3 lower resistances, i believe she was level 19 at the time, so that is a whopping 87% magic resistance lowering, absolutely solid against holmes' 65%
next i cast all my buffs on all my nitz guys, and cast the handy dandy spell immunity abjuration on my sorcerer
so i go into battle sorcerer solo, and as soon as he hits hostile, blast his with the spell trigger lower resistance, ah, sexellent so far
then as soon as i do that, i make greater malison my next casting, and since i have the robe of vecna and amulet of power, it will be an instant cast
so i get off with the greater malison, and then my sorcerer gets hit with the wing buffet and all that jazz
and then the insect swarm starts coming towards my sorcerer, and i though, uh oh, game over time, but luckily we were ALL near the exit, so yoink, left the area, came back, insect plague was gone, black dragon holmes still has his MR lowered into the negatives with a greater malison to boot
then i send everyone in, having my cleric/mage and sorcerer start casting finger of death, and the one of them connected and it was over
it felt so satisfying killing buddy with finger of death, sometimes one shotting big bosses feels like a let down, but not with this dude, it felt good to have that garbage over with quickly
i've been having some epic moments lately, mostly with an item called algeron's cloak ( i believe that is how you spell his name, let me check ee keeper.... ) *ahem* so with algerNon's cloak i've been using the charm person ability and its been with fun results
normally i never use the charm person ability of this cloak, but since my team has been less than optimal its virtually been a necessity
first holmes i landed a charm person on was the mage in tazok's tent, ah priceless, getting that free haste is always awesome, although the hobgob killed the mage dude before he could get it off, but fun none the less
next was that little ice dungeon shandalar brings you to, since i had no haste or cleric to summon skellies, i had to rely on Minsc's charm animal and the cloak to charm all the wolfies and the polar bear to wreck up shop, especially that polar bear, he might not be able to last against your team, but damn does he ever waste the mages in that dungeon yum
and then finally was the cloakwood base fight with the 4 holmes at the front, i used the cloak on the mage that doesnt turn invisible and it landed, and this holmes also had haste, but this time he was able to get it off and won without a hitch, good times
another thing i love doing with charm person/dire charm/domination is dominated baddies with weapons, and if they have enough slots left i will force them to equip their fists, which give you a gnarly +4 to hit/to damage against them, although it seems like in later versions of the bg games, they now start equipping items when their charm wears off, you still get a round or two head start, this is especially effective against holmes ten hammer? ( buddy in the full plate mail in the bandit camp ) blind him, then make him equip his fist and its GG
Monks are pretty weak in BG1, but once you get enough levels they become powerhouses in BG2. I did some serious damage to Draconis with my Monk in TOB.
+4 fists doing incredible damage with multiple attacks, immunity to poison and massive amounts of magic resistance?
Taking on Ascension Abazigal with all his family and pet salamanders, all at once in solo play, insane difficulty, without coming in pre-buffed, not even with Stone Skin.
No invocation, simulacrum or images, no consumable items, and no cheese whatsoever apart from the Robe of Vecna, which some consider cheesy. (No always-dispel items like Staff of Magi or Carsomyr, no Cape of Mirroring or Reflection, no bug abuse or dubious strategy or item, just taking them fair and square with a dual classed level 13/26 character, using a strategy that does not rely on luck and works 100% of the time)
It was quite a satisfying battle, harder than improved Demogorgon not because Abazigal is stronger, but because it's a massive ambush and the various enemies complement each other very well.
I'm currently trying the same with the final battle, it is much harder. I think I will need simulacrum and projected image to restore my spells mid-way a couple times. I might need the only two Wish scrolls that I have too. (As far as I know there are only 3 scrolls in the whole game and I used one to learn the spell)
Taking on Ascension Abazigal with all his family and pet salamanders, all at once in solo play, insane difficulty, without coming in pre-buffed, not even with Stone Skin.
No invocation, simulacrum or images, no consumable items, and no cheese whatsoever apart from the Robe of Vecna, which some consider cheesy. (No always-dispel items like Staff of Magi or Carsomyr, no Cape of Mirroring or Reflection, no bug abuse or dubious strategy or item, just taking them fair and square with a dual classed level 13/26 character, using a strategy that does not rely on luck and works 100% of the time)
It was quite a satisfying battle, harder than improved Demogorgon not because Abazigal is stronger, but because it's a massive ambush and the various enemies complement each other very well.
I'm currently trying the same with the final battle, it is much harder. I think I will need simulacrum and projected image to restore my spells mid-way a couple times. I might need the only two Wish scrolls that I have too. (As far as I know there are only 3 scrolls in the whole game and I used one to learn the spell)
Anyone succeeded already ?
what was this non cheese strat did you use to take down Abazigal and co on Ascension? even without mods i have to use cheese just to beat him on insane
Ascension Abazigal has 500 HP, at least 50% resistance to all forms of damage, and regenerates 5 HP per second, or 30 per round. A mage would struggle to overcome that regeneration, but it looks like it should be possible to bring him down using Improved Alacrity: 5 casting of Magic Missile, Melf's Acid Arrow, Skull Trap, Ice Storm, and Cone of Cold, and 3 castings of Horrid Wilting and Dragon's Breath would deal about 800 base damage in one round, or 400 when you factor in Abazigal's resistances. Some failed saving throws courtesy of Greater Malison could bump that up to 500 and kill him in about 2 rounds. Improved Alacrity would also let you activate all the necessary buffs within the first round.
A Kensai(13)->Mage with all the right bonuses and gear could kill Abazigal in about 10 rounds using Black Blade of Disaster and no expendables: you could deal about 80 damage per round, and Abazigal's regeneration would reduce that to 50. You'd still need to use Improved Alacrity and some magic attacks to remove his PFMW and Stoneskin spells (and also get rid of that Improved Haste spell he uses, which improves his regeneration). If it's still possible to gain the benefits of Belm or Kundane while Black Blade of Disaster is active (and I'm not sure it is; I think one of the EE updates prevented this), you could deal the 500 damage in about 6 rounds.
@ProbablyNotANumber: Ascension Melissan is a tough nut to crack, what with her 3-casting-time Time Stop spells and her habit of using Teleport Without Error and Greater Whirlwind Attack during Time Stop to deal massive damage while the player is helpless. Make sure you have either PFMW or Focus active at all times. If you're not already aware, Focus is an innate spell you should get after activating one of the pools, which grants 5 rounds of immunity to Time Stop but can only be used every 10 rounds. There's actually a lot going on in that fight; it's very complex.
A few people have brought down Melissan using solo characters. I recently killed her using a Druid/Mage who combined some mod-introduced druid damage spells from IWD like Icelance with Improved Alacrity. In my LoB run, I used an Archer/Mage's Called Shot with the Scorcher Ammunition to kill her with STR drain. @Alesia_BH had a very solid strategy in which she removed the Five and then kited Melissan with a sling while using the Shield of Reflection to block her darts. @histamiini completed a solo LoB run with a Cleric/Mage, though I don't remember how he made it happen. @Harpagornis has also done it with a Bounty Hunter and Totemic Druid->Fighter, though I don't remember if the latter was done without reloading.
I notice you're new to the forum. Have you tried out no-reload runs? We'd love to have another talented powergamer in the "Maybe this time" thread for no-reload runs.
I did it with a Kensai mage 13/26, Berserker mage would work too, since it's a long battle we need physical damage or we will run out of spells. A pure mage could maybe win with a strategy optimized around Wish to restore spells, but it seems hard. I'd be interested in seeing how an Entropist fares though!
Anyway, I went through this fight something like 6 times to ensure it's a sure winner strategy, because relying on luck is less satisfying for me. As long as we can succeed in casting Improved Alacrity, we can win. Coming with a buffing Chain Contingency could help getting Alacrity through. That said, with the Robe of Vecna and Amulet of Power, I have not been interrupted, and I didn't make use of contingencies.
So while under Alacrity:
- Cast Stone skin, Spirit armor, Blur, Mirror image, Improved haste, Resist fear if necessary - Cast Spell immunity: Abjuration to avoid getting dispelled - Cast Protection from Magic Weapons or Mantle. The latter spares a PfMW while protecting us from the 4 drakes and 4 salamanders, but not Abazigal and maybe not his wife. I tend to pick PfMW at this point because it's a hell of an ambush. - Consider casting Protection from electricity, to be safe, since it lasts a long time - Cast Protection from energy, the level 8 spell, twice. This will take some time as their casting time is 3 even with Robe of Vecna and Amulet of Power. We can keep two more slots dedicated to this spell ready for later. - If you like, protect against Abazigal's wife's breath with Spell Shield (casting time 3). I personally relied on Mirror image, so I can't guarantee Alacrity will last long enough for the next big spell. The shield won't break yet it protects against her "magical" crushing damage that goes through PfMW. Beware of Spell Shield's bug (at least on vanilla BG2) that makes it unbreakable even when it should break, because that's massive cheese IMO.
In that short time delay, the main danger (Abazigal's waifu) should have already cast her protection from magic weapons from a contingency. Now we go on the offensive. Breach her, cast Detect Invisibility and Time Stop.
There are probably better moves, but we can Greater Malison the Drakes and throw 4 Fingers of Death to two Drakes (split 2/2 or 3/1), maybe one will go down. They have about 25% magic resistance and still 8-9 saving throw under Greater Malison, if I recall correctly. We don't really care about them because we are protected from everything they have. You can do that during the Time Stop or before.
Improved haste has made the waifu hesitant to approach us. Since her breath has a short range, it's possible that she didn't even use it and we have to move towards her. Slice her to bits, then slice one of the remaining non-invisible drakes. Chances are that Time Stop will end before the first drake falls.
From then on it's a matter of making tiny dices out of drakes while keeping either PfMW or Mantle active, depending on Abazigal's position, since his weapon goes through Mantle. True Sight or Detect invisibility might speed up the annoying game played by the drakes. Once they are down, go west to slice up the 4 salamanders while Abazigal is chasing, then destroy his human form with physical damage (A dual wielding Kensai using Belm has 9 attacks per round, a Berserker should have 10 thanks to some bracer).
Once he turns to dragon form, he projects us far away. We use that time to cast Improved Alacrity, then Stone Skin, whatever protection we're left with, Spell Immunity: Abjuration to resist Remove magic, and 2x Protection from elements if we feel like it. Abazigal catches up: throw him a Spell Trigger made of 2x Lower resistance and Greater Malison. Maybe throw an extra Lower resist if needed, I don't remember. If we have a Spell Shield active from before, Abazigal's lower resistance to electricity will crash on it without breaking it, otherwise we rely on good saving throws (key to winning at BG...), and anyway if Protections from elements were cast on top of Protection from electriticy, I'm not sure we care about Abazigal's -50%.
Anyway, now throw Powerword: Blind, it's going to help us through the final brawl. Be careful if he full heals, it heals blindness and he will make a spectacular come back. He can still lose, but so can we. So it is important to interrupt his casting once we get close enough for him to see us. For now, 5x Skull Trap, plus a Spell Sequencer 3x Skull Trap, a Minor Sequencer 2x Magic missile and 5x Magic missile. I tend to keep another Powerword: Blind in case he makes a come back, I think it's safer than Abi Dalzim since the goal is to have a 100% winning strategy, and that come back is a bitch, as it happens after we've literally exhausted our entire spellbook. (And I don't use consumables. I'm okay with regular healing potions *as a last resort*, but on insane it may not help a lot.)
Once out of offensive damage spells, we can try Feeblemind, in which case it's a victory. If not, maybe Strength, to scale him back from 25 to 18/00. His Spell trigger got him an Armor of Faith: Let's Breach that so we can go full melee. Maybe Remove magic too: While that costs a Skull Trap, at level 26 it's a 55% chance to dispel Improved haste and Righteous Magic he got along with Armor of Faith. I didn't use that, he went on me with those indecent boosts; but between blindness and the remaining PfMW, it's fine, especially if we've been quick at reaching that point and managed to find opportunities to use Mantle instead of PfMW (not very likely).
Once in melee we rely on the longsword "The Answerer +4", because it lowers AC cumulatively on each hit. We really want to interrupt his spell casting, and unless there's a bug (which I try to avoid), in melee combat he does see us even though blinded. (-10 Thaco though, but he is a strong caster too.)
Once every hit we make lands thanks to that sword, he is toast. No full heal possible. The sword might be considered cheesy, I don't know, in which case I would use Remove magic then Strength on him, and maybe deal with his spell casting with well timed injections of acid into him using M. Melf's syringes. I'd replace the weapon with e.g. Foebane +5 for the Larloch drains; affected by our own magic resistance, sadly. If he heals, I rely on the second Powerword: Blind, otherwise he turns the tide of the battle and only yields if our protections last long enough for us to cut his face off.
@ProbablyNotANumber: Interesting work! I forgot that Abazigal was vulnerable to Feeblemind, though it has to be dispelled eventually in order for him to give his death dialogue. I'm glad to see that the Answerer is getting some well-deserved appreciation. I also notice that you're paying attention to your saving throws--also a very good idea, because Abazigal's shock wave imposes 12 seconds of 90% spell failure on a failed save vs. breath at -4.
Spell Shield should neither block dragon breath in SCS, nor should it block more than a single magic attack. SCS changes both of those things. I usually rely on Stoneskin to block the damage from Tamah's breath weapon.
Incidentally, do you get two copies of the purple dragon wife, Tamah, or just one? In my games, she comes as a pair of clones instead of just one dragon, and I've never known why.
You should really consider joining the no-reload challenge.
I forgot that Abazigal was vulnerable to Feeblemind, though it has to be dispelled eventually in order for him to give his death dialogue.
Indeed, that's why I didn't actually use it. I thought about it: Feeblemind succeeds, I hit him into very low HP, dispel and continue hitting until he can say blarg i'm ded. But I felt that it lacked the elegance and fairness I'm seeking (I don't consider Feeblemind cheese though.)
Spell Shield should neither block dragon breath in SCS, nor should it block more than a single magic attack. SCS changes both of those things. I usually rely on Stoneskin to block the damage from Tamah's breath weapon.
Ah right, I should try out SCS next! In vanilla, Spell shield is only destroyed by the 9 spells listed on the Wiki. But other attacks crash on it without destroying it, like Tamah's or beholders and hive mothers' anti-magic rays. A bug also makes it so that sometimes, even the 9 spells don't destroy it, meaning you're almost invulnerable.
On the other hand, Stone skin probably doesn't protect against Tamah's breath in vanilla. But Mirror image probably doesn't work against area attacks in SCS.
SCS completely turns around the way Breach works anyway, that makes Spell Shield more of a lock on top of multiple layers of protections rather than a desperate attempt at protecting your life from completely unreasonable breachers. If what the user cares about is combat and specific protections (e.g. from elements), any spell protection (like Spell deflection) will do in SCS. In vanilla it's Spell Shield or minced meat...which I guess is why almost no enemy uses Breach in vanilla. In Ascension's final fight though, they don't have any qualm about it. This is what makes this the hardest solo battle in my case; I feel that I'd have an easier time with SCS, assuming of course I make sure vanilla's Spell Shield is not bugged and properly breaks with Breach or Lower resistance. (That last one is not worth defending against, what a waste of a perfectly good shield)
Incidentally, do you get two copies of the purple dragon wife, Tamah, or just one?
I tried again, there was only one even on insane difficulty. Odd. On a side note, even though I only had one Spell Immunity and failed twice at casting PfMW because I forgot Mantle was active, that strategy still ended a victory, meaning it's reliable so I'm happy with that. I guess I should try with an Entropist someday.
I also notice that you're paying attention to your saving throws--also a very good idea, because Abazigal's shock wave imposes 12 seconds of 90% spell failure on a failed save vs. breath at -4.
Yes, I should have mentioned that earlier, the saving throws are a key part of the victory. A naked Kensai/mage has 5/5/6/5/6. From there the most important is to lower the last one as much as possible, hence Spirit armor (-3 bonus) and Blur (-1), while making sure there's no more than a single Blur active at any time (self-cumulative cheese). With gear and boosts, this character is not affected by -4 penalties with any type of attack, especially not breath attacks thanks to the Belt of Inertial Barrier. Depending on chosen gear and boosts it's between -3/-3/-2/-8/-5 and -5/-5/-4/-10/-7, meaning such a character can withstand from -9 to -11 penalty before there's even a chance to fail a breath save. (If you have two Rings of Gaxx it's even better, but I heard it's not possible in BG:EE and sometimes considered cheesy anyway.)
That said, Abazigal's shockwave can also be protected against using the Cape of Mirroring (cheese) and possibly Spell Immunity: Necromancy (classy). However when already fully boosted, 12 seconds of spell failure can be recovered from, so even if it does break through there's room to win.
You should really consider joining the no-reload challenge.
Thanks for proposing! I'll take a look, but playing the whole game again with little to discover beyond character builds, and no new banter, it's a little hard for me. But I am interested in "This fight with this character or team under these rules" type of challenge
Right now, my challenge is to beat Ascension's final fight with my now XP capped 13/28 Kensai mage without cheese. I'll allow my two Wish scrolls as consumables used from images, but that's about it. Needless to say, I'm pretty skeptical, and looking at the description you made of other people's challenges with this fight, they all seem to have some cheesing going on. I don't think it's cheesy enough to taint their victory, just that my challenge is to have none at all + a reliable victory not helped by luck. It's just my own rules, same spirit as against Abazigal. "Maybe it's impossible and I'll have to compromise" is what I was getting at.
Sorry for the lengthy comments. As Blaise Pascal said, I guess I'm writing a long letter because I don't have time to make a short one
@semiticgod I also get two Tamah copies so I guess it's just how it's supposed to work.
@ProbablyNotANumber not many spells impose such high saving throws penalty, if any. You might consider using gear which boosts AC/damage or spell casting. I tend not to see any difference after like -2 saving throws across the board. I just wen't through SCS/LOB/Ascension again in TOB and I think my CHARNAME didn't fail save once and he has around -2 everywhere. This is especially important if you are mage since -1 ST from blur and additional -4 from improved invis.
My most epic Infinity Engine moment was either soloing Sarevok with a cleric/thief slinger (tedious but satisfying!), or in IWD2 when you get ambushed by the Arcane Brotherhood (iirc, its been awhile... the attack by a some mages with goons, and a few big cats). I opened up with two fireballs and a chaos effect, turning what was supposed to be a hard fight into an utter cakewalk. On HoF I used a similar strategy with Delayed Blast Fireballs, was almost as easy. I never found AoE magic ineffective in IWD2, even on HoF, though later I tried to cheese with my Cleric of Bane's insanely high DC Mass Domination, which utterly devestated even HoF mobs.
@Myrag It doesn't appear to be a bug on my end, as you can see with the following code. Maybe Ascension is slightly different in BG2:EE ? Maybe SCS changes it somewhat ? Two dragons with the exact same name sounds like a bug though. So maybe it's a BG2:EE Ascension bug ? Dunno. Strategy should be adapted to fit one more dragon, but I can't give it a try if I can't figure out how to get the two Tamahs in the same way you do.
IF OnCreation() Global("JustEntered","AR6005",0) THEN RESPONSE #100 SetGlobal("JustEntered","AR6005",1) CreateCreature("DRAKE01",[706.1084],0) // Shelligh CreateCreature("DRAKE02",[1181.1096],0) // Rill CreateCreature("DRAKE03",[1575.997],0) // Rance CreateCreature("DRAKE04",[1618.669],0) // Quenash CreateCreature("ABAZDG02",[1224.1287],0) // Tamah END
-4 from improved invis.
Improved invisibility doesn't improve saving throws, at least on vanilla non-EE games. It's yet another case of a lying spell description, just like blindness, which actually gives a -10 thac0 penalty instead of a -4 one with a -4 penalty to AC on top. I checked that in game some time ago by giving myself 3 against e.g. spells. Another party member cast Improved invisibility at me and then Spider webs (-2 penalty vs spells). If Improved invisibility did give a +4 spell saving throw bonus I should have never been immobilized (3 + 2 - 4 = 1, means I pass any roll of the dice). Yet I was.
You might consider using gear which boosts AC/damage or spell casting. I tend not to see any difference after like -2 saving throws across the board. I just wen't through SCS/LOB/Ascension again in TOB and I think my CHARNAME didn't fail save once and he has around -2 everywhere.
I agree in most cases. Protecting against -4 is useful for Chaos, Slow and a few other abilities specific to enemies, but for that we need "only" -3. And for the most part -1 is actually enough, to protect against -2 penalties which are a lot more common.
The reason I have very low saving throws here is to resist Greater Malison and equivalent enemy-specific abilities in tougher battles, that are coupled with attacks imposing a -6 or up to -10 penalty. Only the hardest battles in Ascension fall in that category in a way that either downright makes a difference in outcome or "only" makes victory more luck-dependent. Fortunately, the gear I have is already optimal IMO and just happens to give excellent saving throws, i.e. I didn't make a sacrifice for those saves. (For instance, since I don't want to use the Cape of Mirroring, I don't see which cape would be better than the Improved Cape of Protection +2.)
I also agree that for example adding extra spells could be more important than boosting saving throws further, depending on the situation, if that choice had to be made. Spells are running short against Ascension Abazigal and Melissan. But not against Demogorgon for which I would pick saving throws. (I don't need more AC or resistances, and don't have better item options for boosting damage)
I just realized that Mass Invisibility does provide a +4 saving throw bonus. It is not part of the invisibility effect, so no other invisibility spell gives that. Mass Invisibility can be cast several times to cumulate the bonus into massive cheesery.
Is it true on Enhanced Edition? Mass Invisility gives a cumulative +4 bonus, but neither do Improved Invisibility, Shadow Door or Mislead improve saving throws, nor do they make incoming attacks provide more favorable save requirements? (e.g. a vorpal effect that imposes a -2 penalty, won't end up giving a -2+4 = +2 bonus)
Comments
That's nice and all, but Tethoril is a neutral NPC who isn't supposed to be attacked so I don't know if it counts.
Ergo, it counts.
Well, now that I think about it, Tethoril lives in Beregosts red light district so that explains where all his gold vent. But Gorion? Really bad black lotus addiction?
They have bad loot because they are central to the story and thus not meant to be killed.
It’s not a huge achievement given my character is a level 25/21 fighter/illusionist and I was buffed like a demigod. Stoneskin, Mirror Image, Blur, Protection from Energy, SI Abjuration, SI Conjuration, Spell Shield, Improved Invisibility and most importantly Improved Haste (9 APR!).
I used Mordy’s Sword to summon the 5 Demon Knights and then used the Staff of Elemental Mastery (Item Upgrades) to summon the 3 elementals as soon as fight started. They were only distraction fodder that I didn’t really need and the earth and air elemental were quickly destroyed by the 20d6 fireballs that the Demon Knights each have (the Fire Elemental naturally was not affected). In the meantime my PC wiped out each Demon Knight in about 5 seconds. It was literally a blur of destruction - bang, bang, bang, bang (Flail of Ages), run to the next and repeat. Did not take a single scratch, was slightly embarrassing how easy it was.
General point is that any F/M that has safe saving throws (easy enough with e.g. Potion of Invulnerability) only needs a handful of spells to be both indestructible and a dervish of destruction: PFMW (or Stoneskin/Mirror Image), Protection from Fire, SI Abjuration, Spell Shield, Improved Invisibility and Improved Haste = utter devastation. It is fun to watch
I was fighting two djinn, my very last spell wild surged and my character said "whats that over there" but nothing happen. Needless to say, my mc died but then a wild surge brought him back to life and reset all my spells. Even my mc in game was confused
so anyways i thought of a creative way to take this clown out, and it worked like a charm
first, i had my sorcerer spell trigger up to 3 lower resistances, i believe she was level 19 at the time, so that is a whopping 87% magic resistance lowering, absolutely solid against holmes' 65%
next i cast all my buffs on all my nitz guys, and cast the handy dandy spell immunity abjuration on my sorcerer
so i go into battle sorcerer solo, and as soon as he hits hostile, blast his with the spell trigger lower resistance, ah, sexellent so far
then as soon as i do that, i make greater malison my next casting, and since i have the robe of vecna and amulet of power, it will be an instant cast
so i get off with the greater malison, and then my sorcerer gets hit with the wing buffet and all that jazz
and then the insect swarm starts coming towards my sorcerer, and i though, uh oh, game over time, but luckily we were ALL near the exit, so yoink, left the area, came back, insect plague was gone, black dragon holmes still has his MR lowered into the negatives with a greater malison to boot
then i send everyone in, having my cleric/mage and sorcerer start casting finger of death, and the one of them connected and it was over
it felt so satisfying killing buddy with finger of death, sometimes one shotting big bosses feels like a let down, but not with this dude, it felt good to have that garbage over with quickly
normally i never use the charm person ability of this cloak, but since my team has been less than optimal its virtually been a necessity
first holmes i landed a charm person on was the mage in tazok's tent, ah priceless, getting that free haste is always awesome, although the hobgob killed the mage dude before he could get it off, but fun none the less
next was that little ice dungeon shandalar brings you to, since i had no haste or cleric to summon skellies, i had to rely on Minsc's charm animal and the cloak to charm all the wolfies and the polar bear to wreck up shop, especially that polar bear, he might not be able to last against your team, but damn does he ever waste the mages in that dungeon yum
and then finally was the cloakwood base fight with the 4 holmes at the front, i used the cloak on the mage that doesnt turn invisible and it landed, and this holmes also had haste, but this time he was able to get it off and won without a hitch, good times
another thing i love doing with charm person/dire charm/domination is dominated baddies with weapons, and if they have enough slots left i will force them to equip their fists, which give you a gnarly +4 to hit/to damage against them, although it seems like in later versions of the bg games, they now start equipping items when their charm wears off, you still get a round or two head start, this is especially effective against holmes ten hammer? ( buddy in the full plate mail in the bandit camp ) blind him, then make him equip his fist and its GG
where at level 7 you can barely punch xvarts (which you'll just critical miss anyway)
good lord this class is unsalvageable under level 9. and that's with starter 18/18/18 too.
at least the 100 wand of heavens can carry
so it makes a monk ALMOST useful in melee combat
+4 fists doing incredible damage with multiple attacks, immunity to poison and massive amounts of magic resistance?
Yes please.
Taking on Ascension Abazigal with all his family and pet salamanders, all at once in solo play, insane difficulty, without coming in pre-buffed, not even with Stone Skin.
No invocation, simulacrum or images, no consumable items, and no cheese whatsoever apart from the Robe of Vecna, which some consider cheesy. (No always-dispel items like Staff of Magi or Carsomyr, no Cape of Mirroring or Reflection, no bug abuse or dubious strategy or item, just taking them fair and square with a dual classed level 13/26 character, using a strategy that does not rely on luck and works 100% of the time)
It was quite a satisfying battle, harder than improved Demogorgon not because Abazigal is stronger, but because it's a massive ambush and the various enemies complement each other very well.
I'm currently trying the same with the final battle, it is much harder. I think I will need simulacrum and projected image to restore my spells mid-way a couple times. I might need the only two Wish scrolls that I have too. (As far as I know there are only 3 scrolls in the whole game and I used one to learn the spell)
Anyone succeeded already ?
A Kensai(13)->Mage with all the right bonuses and gear could kill Abazigal in about 10 rounds using Black Blade of Disaster and no expendables: you could deal about 80 damage per round, and Abazigal's regeneration would reduce that to 50. You'd still need to use Improved Alacrity and some magic attacks to remove his PFMW and Stoneskin spells (and also get rid of that Improved Haste spell he uses, which improves his regeneration). If it's still possible to gain the benefits of Belm or Kundane while Black Blade of Disaster is active (and I'm not sure it is; I think one of the EE updates prevented this), you could deal the 500 damage in about 6 rounds.
@ProbablyNotANumber: Ascension Melissan is a tough nut to crack, what with her 3-casting-time Time Stop spells and her habit of using Teleport Without Error and Greater Whirlwind Attack during Time Stop to deal massive damage while the player is helpless. Make sure you have either PFMW or Focus active at all times. If you're not already aware, Focus is an innate spell you should get after activating one of the pools, which grants 5 rounds of immunity to Time Stop but can only be used every 10 rounds. There's actually a lot going on in that fight; it's very complex.
A few people have brought down Melissan using solo characters. I recently killed her using a Druid/Mage who combined some mod-introduced druid damage spells from IWD like Icelance with Improved Alacrity. In my LoB run, I used an Archer/Mage's Called Shot with the Scorcher Ammunition to kill her with STR drain. @Alesia_BH had a very solid strategy in which she removed the Five and then kited Melissan with a sling while using the Shield of Reflection to block her darts. @histamiini completed a solo LoB run with a Cleric/Mage, though I don't remember how he made it happen. @Harpagornis has also done it with a Bounty Hunter and Totemic Druid->Fighter, though I don't remember if the latter was done without reloading.
I notice you're new to the forum. Have you tried out no-reload runs? We'd love to have another talented powergamer in the "Maybe this time" thread for no-reload runs.
I did it with a Kensai mage 13/26, Berserker mage would work too, since it's a long battle we need physical damage or we will run out of spells. A pure mage could maybe win with a strategy optimized around Wish to restore spells, but it seems hard. I'd be interested in seeing how an Entropist fares though!
Anyway, I went through this fight something like 6 times to ensure it's a sure winner strategy, because relying on luck is less satisfying for me. As long as we can succeed in casting Improved Alacrity, we can win. Coming with a buffing Chain Contingency could help getting Alacrity through. That said, with the Robe of Vecna and Amulet of Power, I have not been interrupted, and I didn't make use of contingencies.
So while under Alacrity:
- Cast Stone skin, Spirit armor, Blur, Mirror image, Improved haste, Resist fear if necessary
- Cast Spell immunity: Abjuration to avoid getting dispelled
- Cast Protection from Magic Weapons or Mantle. The latter spares a PfMW while protecting us from the 4 drakes and 4 salamanders, but not Abazigal and maybe not his wife. I tend to pick PfMW at this point because it's a hell of an ambush.
- Consider casting Protection from electricity, to be safe, since it lasts a long time
- Cast Protection from energy, the level 8 spell, twice. This will take some time as their casting time is 3 even with Robe of Vecna and Amulet of Power. We can keep two more slots dedicated to this spell ready for later.
- If you like, protect against Abazigal's wife's breath with Spell Shield (casting time 3). I personally relied on Mirror image, so I can't guarantee Alacrity will last long enough for the next big spell. The shield won't break yet it protects against her "magical" crushing damage that goes through PfMW. Beware of Spell Shield's bug (at least on vanilla BG2) that makes it unbreakable even when it should break, because that's massive cheese IMO.
In that short time delay, the main danger (Abazigal's waifu) should have already cast her protection from magic weapons from a contingency. Now we go on the offensive. Breach her, cast Detect Invisibility and Time Stop.
There are probably better moves, but we can Greater Malison the Drakes and throw 4 Fingers of Death to two Drakes (split 2/2 or 3/1), maybe one will go down. They have about 25% magic resistance and still 8-9 saving throw under Greater Malison, if I recall correctly. We don't really care about them because we are protected from everything they have. You can do that during the Time Stop or before.
Improved haste has made the waifu hesitant to approach us. Since her breath has a short range, it's possible that she didn't even use it and we have to move towards her. Slice her to bits, then slice one of the remaining non-invisible drakes. Chances are that Time Stop will end before the first drake falls.
From then on it's a matter of making tiny dices out of drakes while keeping either PfMW or Mantle active, depending on Abazigal's position, since his weapon goes through Mantle. True Sight or Detect invisibility might speed up the annoying game played by the drakes. Once they are down, go west to slice up the 4 salamanders while Abazigal is chasing, then destroy his human form with physical damage (A dual wielding Kensai using Belm has 9 attacks per round, a Berserker should have 10 thanks to some bracer).
Once he turns to dragon form, he projects us far away. We use that time to cast Improved Alacrity, then Stone Skin, whatever protection we're left with, Spell Immunity: Abjuration to resist Remove magic, and 2x Protection from elements if we feel like it. Abazigal catches up: throw him a Spell Trigger made of 2x Lower resistance and Greater Malison. Maybe throw an extra Lower resist if needed, I don't remember. If we have a Spell Shield active from before, Abazigal's lower resistance to electricity will crash on it without breaking it, otherwise we rely on good saving throws (key to winning at BG...), and anyway if Protections from elements were cast on top of Protection from electriticy, I'm not sure we care about Abazigal's -50%.
Anyway, now throw Powerword: Blind, it's going to help us through the final brawl. Be careful if he full heals, it heals blindness and he will make a spectacular come back. He can still lose, but so can we. So it is important to interrupt his casting once we get close enough for him to see us. For now, 5x Skull Trap, plus a Spell Sequencer 3x Skull Trap, a Minor Sequencer 2x Magic missile and 5x Magic missile. I tend to keep another Powerword: Blind in case he makes a come back, I think it's safer than Abi Dalzim since the goal is to have a 100% winning strategy, and that come back is a bitch, as it happens after we've literally exhausted our entire spellbook. (And I don't use consumables. I'm okay with regular healing potions *as a last resort*, but on insane it may not help a lot.)
Once out of offensive damage spells, we can try Feeblemind, in which case it's a victory. If not, maybe Strength, to scale him back from 25 to 18/00. His Spell trigger got him an Armor of Faith: Let's Breach that so we can go full melee. Maybe Remove magic too: While that costs a Skull Trap, at level 26 it's a 55% chance to dispel Improved haste and Righteous Magic he got along with Armor of Faith. I didn't use that, he went on me with those indecent boosts; but between blindness and the remaining PfMW, it's fine, especially if we've been quick at reaching that point and managed to find opportunities to use Mantle instead of PfMW (not very likely).
Once in melee we rely on the longsword "The Answerer +4", because it lowers AC cumulatively on each hit. We really want to interrupt his spell casting, and unless there's a bug (which I try to avoid), in melee combat he does see us even though blinded. (-10 Thaco though, but he is a strong caster too.)
Once every hit we make lands thanks to that sword, he is toast. No full heal possible. The sword might be considered cheesy, I don't know, in which case I would use Remove magic then Strength on him, and maybe deal with his spell casting with well timed injections of acid into him using M. Melf's syringes. I'd replace the weapon with e.g. Foebane +5 for the Larloch drains; affected by our own magic resistance, sadly. If he heals, I rely on the second Powerword: Blind, otherwise he turns the tide of the battle and only yields if our protections last long enough for us to cut his face off.
Spell Shield should neither block dragon breath in SCS, nor should it block more than a single magic attack. SCS changes both of those things. I usually rely on Stoneskin to block the damage from Tamah's breath weapon.
Incidentally, do you get two copies of the purple dragon wife, Tamah, or just one? In my games, she comes as a pair of clones instead of just one dragon, and I've never known why.
You should really consider joining the no-reload challenge.
Indeed, that's why I didn't actually use it. I thought about it: Feeblemind succeeds, I hit him into very low HP, dispel and continue hitting until he can say blarg i'm ded. But I felt that it lacked the elegance and fairness I'm seeking
Ah right, I should try out SCS next! In vanilla, Spell shield is only destroyed by the 9 spells listed on the Wiki. But other attacks crash on it without destroying it, like Tamah's or beholders and hive mothers' anti-magic rays. A bug also makes it so that sometimes, even the 9 spells don't destroy it, meaning you're almost invulnerable.
On the other hand, Stone skin probably doesn't protect against Tamah's breath in vanilla. But Mirror image probably doesn't work against area attacks in SCS.
SCS completely turns around the way Breach works anyway, that makes Spell Shield more of a lock on top of multiple layers of protections rather than a desperate attempt at protecting your life from completely unreasonable breachers. If what the user cares about is combat and specific protections (e.g. from elements), any spell protection (like Spell deflection) will do in SCS. In vanilla it's Spell Shield or minced meat...which I guess is why almost no enemy uses Breach in vanilla. In Ascension's final fight though, they don't have any qualm about it. This is what makes this the hardest solo battle in my case; I feel that I'd have an easier time with SCS, assuming of course I make sure vanilla's Spell Shield is not bugged and properly breaks with Breach or Lower resistance. (That last one is not worth defending against, what a waste of a perfectly good shield)
I tried again, there was only one even on insane difficulty. Odd. On a side note, even though I only had one Spell Immunity and failed twice at casting PfMW because I forgot Mantle was active, that strategy still ended a victory, meaning it's reliable so I'm happy with that. I guess I should try with an Entropist someday.
Yes, I should have mentioned that earlier, the saving throws are a key part of the victory. A naked Kensai/mage has 5/5/6/5/6. From there the most important is to lower the last one as much as possible, hence Spirit armor (-3 bonus) and Blur (-1), while making sure there's no more than a single Blur active at any time (self-cumulative cheese). With gear and boosts, this character is not affected by -4 penalties with any type of attack, especially not breath attacks thanks to the Belt of Inertial Barrier. Depending on chosen gear and boosts it's between -3/-3/-2/-8/-5 and -5/-5/-4/-10/-7, meaning such a character can withstand from -9 to -11 penalty before there's even a chance to fail a breath save. (If you have two Rings of Gaxx it's even better, but I heard it's not possible in BG:EE and sometimes considered cheesy anyway.)
That said, Abazigal's shockwave can also be protected against using the Cape of Mirroring (cheese) and possibly Spell Immunity: Necromancy (classy). However when already fully boosted, 12 seconds of spell failure can be recovered from, so even if it does break through there's room to win.
Thanks for proposing! I'll take a look, but playing the whole game again with little to discover beyond character builds, and no new banter, it's a little hard for me. But I am interested in "This fight with this character or team under these rules" type of challenge
Right now, my challenge is to beat Ascension's final fight with my now XP capped 13/28 Kensai mage without cheese. I'll allow my two Wish scrolls as consumables used from images, but that's about it. Needless to say, I'm pretty skeptical, and looking at the description you made of other people's challenges with this fight, they all seem to have some cheesing going on. I don't think it's cheesy enough to taint their victory, just that my challenge is to have none at all + a reliable victory not helped by luck. It's just my own rules, same spirit as against Abazigal. "Maybe it's impossible and I'll have to compromise" is what I was getting at.
Sorry for the lengthy comments. As Blaise Pascal said, I guess I'm writing a long letter because I don't have time to make a short one
@ProbablyNotANumber not many spells impose such high saving throws penalty, if any. You might consider using gear which boosts AC/damage or spell casting. I tend not to see any difference after like -2 saving throws across the board. I just wen't through SCS/LOB/Ascension again in TOB and I think my CHARNAME didn't fail save once and he has around -2 everywhere. This is especially important if you are mage since -1 ST from blur and additional -4 from improved invis.
IF
OnCreation()
Global("JustEntered","AR6005",0)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
SetGlobal("JustEntered","AR6005",1)
CreateCreature("DRAKE01",[706.1084],0) // Shelligh
CreateCreature("DRAKE02",[1181.1096],0) // Rill
CreateCreature("DRAKE03",[1575.997],0) // Rance
CreateCreature("DRAKE04",[1618.669],0) // Quenash
CreateCreature("ABAZDG02",[1224.1287],0) // Tamah
END
Improved invisibility doesn't improve saving throws, at least on vanilla non-EE games. It's yet another case of a lying spell description, just like blindness, which actually gives a -10 thac0 penalty instead of a -4 one with a -4 penalty to AC on top. I checked that in game some time ago by giving myself 3 against e.g. spells. Another party member cast Improved invisibility at me and then Spider webs (-2 penalty vs spells). If Improved invisibility did give a +4 spell saving throw bonus I should have never been immobilized (3 + 2 - 4 = 1, means I pass any roll of the dice). Yet I was.
I agree in most cases. Protecting against -4 is useful for Chaos, Slow and a few other abilities specific to enemies, but for that we need "only" -3. And for the most part -1 is actually enough, to protect against -2 penalties which are a lot more common.
The reason I have very low saving throws here is to resist Greater Malison and equivalent enemy-specific abilities in tougher battles, that are coupled with attacks imposing a -6 or up to -10 penalty. Only the hardest battles in Ascension fall in that category in a way that either downright makes a difference in outcome or "only" makes victory more luck-dependent. Fortunately, the gear I have is already optimal IMO and just happens to give excellent saving throws, i.e. I didn't make a sacrifice for those saves. (For instance, since I don't want to use the Cape of Mirroring, I don't see which cape would be better than the Improved Cape of Protection +2.)
I also agree that for example adding extra spells could be more important than boosting saving throws further, depending on the situation, if that choice had to be made. Spells are running short against Ascension Abazigal and Melissan. But not against Demogorgon for which I would pick saving throws. (I don't need more AC or resistances, and don't have better item options for boosting damage)
Is it true on Enhanced Edition? Mass Invisility gives a cumulative +4 bonus, but neither do Improved Invisibility, Shadow Door or Mislead improve saving throws, nor do they make incoming attacks provide more favorable save requirements? (e.g. a vorpal effect that imposes a -2 penalty, won't end up giving a -2+4 = +2 bonus)