WIll power is largely a myth. How you think has far more to do with genetics than intent.
I would not leave out upbringing or socio-economic status, either of which can have a substantial impact on one's psyche, especially at younger ages. How all these variables stack up against each other is rather arbitrary.
In my opinion who you are, what you think, what you choose is the product of genetics times upbringing/social background times environmental factors. It's quite arbitrary to call the outcome of it one's own 'free will' as you neither choose what you think nor choose what you want or desire.
Our thoughts are just electrical impulses going through the brain. No matter how hard you will yourself, you cannot change the physiology of your mind. If your brain works a certain way, that's it. You cannot change it.
On another note, got back from the doctor with some new medicine for my eyes. Its definitely stronger. Since using it, I can taste medicine in the back of my throat. They are eyedrops.
Our thoughts are just electrical impulses going through the brain. No matter how hard you will yourself, you cannot change the physiology of your mind. If your brain works a certain way, that's it. You cannot change it.
On another note, got back from the doctor with some new medicine for my eyes. Its definitely stronger. Since using it, I can taste medicine in the back of my throat. They are eyedrops.
If that first paragraph is true then nobody is responsible for their actions. It's just an uncontrollable electrical impulse that made Ted Bundy kill all those girls. There is no better defense for the death penalty if that's the case. Why allow people with 0 impulse control access to society? Worse yet, why allow them to breed???
There is no better defense for the death penalty if that's the case. Why allow people with 0 impulse control access to society? Worse yet, why allow them to breed???
Technically, it's also just uncontrollable electric impulses in our brains that make us imprison or execute serious offenders.
There is no better defense for the death penalty if that's the case. Why allow people with 0 impulse control access to society? Worse yet, why allow them to breed???
Technically, it's also just uncontrollable electric impulses in our brains that make us imprison or execute serious offenders.
The argument is that some people can control their impulses due to genetics and some can't. Sounds kind of like an argument for eugenics to me...
Our thoughts are just electrical impulses going through the brain. No matter how hard you will yourself, you cannot change the physiology of your mind. If your brain works a certain way, that's it. You cannot change it.
On another note, got back from the doctor with some new medicine for my eyes. Its definitely stronger. Since using it, I can taste medicine in the back of my throat. They are eyedrops.
If that first paragraph is true then nobody is responsible for their actions. It's just an uncontrollable electrical impulse that made Ted Bundy kill all those girls. There is no better defense for the death penalty if that's the case. Why allow people with 0 impulse control access to society? Worse yet, why allow them to breed???
Not impulses, how we think. Your confusing conscious action with thought patterns. A person can choose not to punch someone in the face. A depressed person CANNOT choose to be positive when their thyroid is not producing the right hormone that controls those emotions.
I accidentally hurt my friend's feelings last night. There's not really a way to fix it, so she just needs some time apart to process things.
What especially bothers me is that I said a different inconsiderate thing not long ago, and I said I would try to be a better friend, only to hurt her again. Accidental or no, she really needs someone she can feel truly safe with. She's incredibly sweet on the inside, even if she doesn't think it, and I want to be a source of comfort for her.
I accidentally hurt my friend's feelings last night. There's not really a way to fix it, so she just needs some time apart to process things.
What especially bothers me is that I said a different inconsiderate thing not long ago, and I said I would try to be a better friend, only to hurt her again. Accidental or no, she really needs someone she can feel truly safe with. She's incredibly sweet on the inside, even if she doesn't think it, and I want to be a source of comfort for her.
Did you say those things to hurt her, or to help her? Being 'incredibly' sweet can also mean that she's 'incredibly' naieve. My sister is that way and I've said some inconsiderate, albeit well-meant (from my PoV) things to her also. She usually either agrees with me later, or agrees to disagree with me. She knows my intentions are never to harm her so she forgives my occasional indiscrete comments.
@Balrog99: It wasn't meant either to hurt or to harm her--it was a subject I didn't realize would have an emotional impact until after she was already hurt. In retrospect, I can see the logical steps.
She's probably one of the single least naive human beings I've ever met. She actually considers me incredibly innocent. You don't need to be naive to be sweet.
Life has been hitting pretty hard lately. Guess I'll share.
Firstly, it's now been a year since the girlfriend and I broke up with her explanation of her depression making it impossible for her - we've talked a few times (usually every few months) since then. She's still job hopping and generally not going out or seeing anyone, but thankfully she's living with her parents so at least there is somebody around. I had been dealing with the situation by sending her a nice text once a week or so, she'd never told me to stop (I have asked many times). Today, without drawing attention to the time that has passed, I asked for her permission specifically to continue. I didn't receive a response - nor did I really expect to given that she tends to go months without responding. It's just to the point now where I feel like this has gone on so long I think *I* am going too far or that my behavior belies some kind of problem or harassment at worst. It's been nearly 2 months of silence.
Secondly, I had sole custody of my son, and in some wacky turn of events I lost that custody to his mother who moved over 1,000 miles away. He won't be back until Christmas and she is a constant impediment to my communication with him. The courts simply favor married women over unmarried men I suppose as she is the one with the criminal record and wacky lifestyle between the two of us. I can't even process how upsetting that whole situation is. I have a appealed and the appeal was approved, but it has to be actually ruled on by the 3 judge panel, and then if she protests it has to go back through the whole thing again to a 12 judge panel. So in actuality, it could be a full year before this situation is rectified and I'm basically stuck. They could also rule against me and I'll just have to live with having my son 3 months out of the year for the rest of his childhood. Which I hate.
Thirdly, my mother had cancer, and successfully completed treatment for it 8 years ago, but it appears that either new cancer or the old cancer, is back again. But unlike the first go around she's in extreme pain, and hence here I am writing at 2 am, because I've just taken her to the ER for the third time in as many weeks because she's in unbearable pain.
I'm just feeling like I'm the cartoon character that's flattened by a road roller. I mean what else could possibly go wrong? *All* of the sources of my unhappiness are caused by things beyond my control and which I am absolutely powerless to rectify. So I call out to the internet that's all I've really got lol.
Life has been hitting pretty hard lately. Guess I'll share.
I'm just feeling like I'm the cartoon character that's flattened by a road roller. I mean what else could possibly go wrong? *All* of the sources of my unhappiness are caused by things beyond my control and which I am absolutely powerless to rectify. So I call out to the internet that's all I've really got lol.
I'm sorry I can't say anything comforting. Being depressed myself (just like the ex-girlfriend you described) I find it hard to see something positive when lots of things go wrong. Life sucks even when things do go right. I can wish you some strength though and hope you'll be able to live through the hardships.
I'm sorry I can't say anything comforting. Being depressed myself (just like the ex-girlfriend you described) I find it hard to see something positive when lots of things go wrong. Life sucks even when things do go right. I can wish you some strength though and hope you'll be able to live through the hardships.
Thank you. I used to think I was fairly well educated in regards to depression, but this whole affair has taught me that was clearly Dunning-Kruger. I know there's largely nothing I can do and the harder I try to help the more it drives her away and that ultimately she's the expert. Depression is a bear.
I can share a funny anecdote though I suppose. When I first met said x I knew immediately that I would attempt to date her on sight, but that I had a certain character flaw of which I was deeply ashamed - namely chewing tobacco (it's common among men in my part of the world). I'd done that for the prior 8 years. So before we eventually wound up going on our first date, I went to a local addictions counselor and came up with a quit plan and executed it. Although a year from the breakup is a sad milestone it also means I'm nearly 2 years into being free of tobacco. So whenever I get to feeling really down about it I just remind myself that at least it gave me the strength to kick tobacco - which I probably would've allowed to kill me eventually or at least shorten my life further.
My mother is in an ambulance on her way to a hospital. She was with a friend when she suddenly talked weird and then fell unconscious for three minutes.
She was okay when the ambulance arrived, but I'm still very worried. She had an intracerebral hemorrhage 4 years ago, with exactly the same symptoms, and needed surgery afterwards.
I can't go after her, because I'm alone with the kids. My father is extremely worried, but tries to be tough.
It's getting harder and harder for me to see any light.
My mother's health is getting worse and I'm powerless to help. Everytime I talk with her her health seems to be getting worse and I know I play a part in the reason why.
Days are getting shorter, years are going by faster and my life isn't improving. If anything, my life has become worse as I fall more and more into my fears.
When o was younger I feared I'd fail, not that is even get a chance but I'd be incapable of being able to do anything. The last 10 years of my life have been just that. Every time I tried something, it ended in depression.
Tried going to school for game design; like a idiot I went to a garbage school and ended up leaving.
Tried to go to school for fine art; took 7 years to get a 4 year degree.
Looked for work; got a job that barely lasted a couple of months before laying people of leading to a constant struggle searching for work.
Worked as a intern for a art gallery for nearly five years; has done nothing for my life... Still a cool place with good people though.
Tried to write and draw 3 different comics but failed.
Started a relationship with someone thought was a loving person, someone I thought would be a light in the darkness; one year later we break up, tired that I was having trouble finding a new job.
Starts studying to finally try to get my License; while waiting at a bus stop iblost mobility in my legs, sight in my eyes, had a stinging in my arms and lost consciousness before I even hit the ground.
I spent my entire life hearing things are going to get better, being told I still have time, I just got to keep trying.
Is this my better? Waking up at four in the morning gasping and grabbing for air because my breathing suddenly stopped? Or when I can't sleep and just lay there, feeling every twitch that happens in my leg or every sting happening in my shoulder joints.
Or my mind replaying every little event it can recall from my memories.
Every fighting I had in school.
The time I woke up to people grabbing on me, trying to pull me out of bed while I started punching and kicking. Just to learn. Later it was the emergency unit trying to get to my great grandfather who was have a stroke right next to me and I was making it harder for them to help.
If this is my better then maybe that 13 year old boy who wanted to die should've gone through with it before the school found out and told his family.
I tried to roll with every punch, but I guess I couldn't take it.
Don't give up dude. I can't honestly promise things will get better for you, but I can promise that you mean a lot to somebody. I've seen some dark times in my life, even times when I thought about suicide. Don't give in, you have many years left in you and they're worth it. Trust me...
There is no better defense for the death penalty if that's the case. Why allow people with 0 impulse control access to society? Worse yet, why allow them to breed???
Technically, it's also just uncontrollable electric impulses in our brains that make us imprison or execute serious offenders.
Precisely. This comes down to the question of free will and whether it exists or not. Current neurological evidence strongly indicates that it does not: there is no free will, and there is no separate self, either. Our sense of self is nothing but an epiphenomenon.
However, in practical terms, the whole question is meaningless, and this has been understood hundreds of years ago. It just so happens that whether we have free will or not doesn't mean anything. Our sense of having free will remains irrevocably in place even if the actual fact of it turns out to be an illusion. So, even if there is no free will, nothing changes.
There is no better defense for the death penalty if that's the case. Why allow people with 0 impulse control access to society? Worse yet, why allow them to breed???
Technically, it's also just uncontrollable electric impulses in our brains that make us imprison or execute serious offenders.
Precisely. This comes down to the question of free will and whether it exists or not. Current neurological evidence strongly indicates that it does not: there is no free will, and there is no separate self, either. Our sense of self is nothing but an epiphenomenon.
However, in practical terms, the whole question is meaningless, and this has been understood hundreds of years ago. It just so happens that whether we have free will or not doesn't mean anything. Our sense of having free will remains irrevocably in place even if the actual fact of it turns out to be an illusion. So, even if there is no free will, nothing changes.
If there is evidence of a lack of free will, that implies that free will can be quantified. How would one even go about doing that?
There is no better defense for the death penalty if that's the case. Why allow people with 0 impulse control access to society? Worse yet, why allow them to breed???
Technically, it's also just uncontrollable electric impulses in our brains that make us imprison or execute serious offenders.
Precisely. This comes down to the question of free will and whether it exists or not. Current neurological evidence strongly indicates that it does not: there is no free will, and there is no separate self, either. Our sense of self is nothing but an epiphenomenon.
However, in practical terms, the whole question is meaningless, and this has been understood hundreds of years ago. It just so happens that whether we have free will or not doesn't mean anything. Our sense of having free will remains irrevocably in place even if the actual fact of it turns out to be an illusion. So, even if there is no free will, nothing changes.
Hey, I believe in free will because I have no choice in the matter.
In all seriousness, why do I have to keep having to be the security guy? SecOps isn't in my title, but no matter where I work I have to be the guy saying "No, don't email passwords" or "Leaving this endpoint open without authentication leaves us open to attack" or "Quit storing private info in git repos." I spent a huge chunk of the day writing a doc to present to management about why we need to change the culture where I work because I've had enough of this crap. At least I managed to change the mindset of the teams I work with regularly awhile ago. How the hell these people haven't had their identities stolen by now is beyond me.
There is no better defense for the death penalty if that's the case. Why allow people with 0 impulse control access to society? Worse yet, why allow them to breed???
Technically, it's also just uncontrollable electric impulses in our brains that make us imprison or execute serious offenders.
Precisely. This comes down to the question of free will and whether it exists or not. Current neurological evidence strongly indicates that it does not: there is no free will, and there is no separate self, either. Our sense of self is nothing but an epiphenomenon.
However, in practical terms, the whole question is meaningless, and this has been understood hundreds of years ago. It just so happens that whether we have free will or not doesn't mean anything. Our sense of having free will remains irrevocably in place even if the actual fact of it turns out to be an illusion. So, even if there is no free will, nothing changes.
If there is evidence of a lack of free will, that implies that free will can be quantified. How would one even go about doing that?
Fair question. What is being quantified is the concept of separate self, part of which this what we regard as free will.
When you are asked, for instance, to do something, and you decide to raise your left hand, it becomes apparent, upon close examination, that the neural impulses leading to muscular activation are already there long (relatively speaking, of course) before you are aware that you feel like raising your left hand and decide to do so. This is a fertile field of study at the moment, and while nothing is proven (even to the extent that anything at all can ever be proven outside mathematics), it is becoming increasingly apparent that we possess neither separate self nor free will.
Within the mind, thoughts arise, and each thought carries with it the sense of an "I" who thought that thought. So the "I" is an epiphenomenon. There are thoughts, but there is no thinker, no separate entity that can be said to persist through time -- it is only that each thought carries with it the implication of someone whose thought it is.
However, all of this lies within the realm of shall we say "consciousness studies", and that is a field that is still faced with a momentous problem: nobody has a clue of what consciousness is. We have no theory.
(Along with consciousness, the other "blindingly obvious but actually totally mysterious" aspect of our world is time -- nobody has a clue what it is, or even if it exists at all. When you study modern physics for a bit, you may be puzzled to find that when velocity increases, time slows down. Ultimately, with photons travelling at the speed of light, this leads to the fact that time ceases to be altogether. Which in turn means that distance ceases to be. So the light coming from a distant galaxy may have, from our perspective, travelled for 5 billion years. But from the photons' perspective, crossing this distance hasn't taken any time at all, and they haven't crossed any distance, either.)
I am not quantifying anything. I am paraphrasing where the study of the question is at the moment. None of that was any of my personal opinion. (The parentheses concerning time were there to highlight our ability to deal with unquantifiables. And out of respect for the topic, this is my last comment on the matter.)
@xzar_monty So your somehow quantifying something that we can't even really define. Somehow, I don't think this holds much water.
This is actually a well debated topic in philosophy/neuroscience at this time. Neuroscientists have observed brain activity indicating a choice has been made before the conscious part of the brain even becomes engaged, and in the majority of cases the decision made by the conscious part of the brain is irrelevant and our reaction is already determined before it comes into play. This brings into question, are we just the product of our genetics and environment and does consciousness even come into play even part of the time? This probably needs it's own topic on consciousness or should be taken to the philosophy thread. Not saying I buy that, and could keep going off on this, but it is a point of contention and this should probably be in a different thread.
Comments
I would not leave out upbringing or socio-economic status, either of which can have a substantial impact on one's psyche, especially at younger ages. How all these variables stack up against each other is rather arbitrary.
On another note, got back from the doctor with some new medicine for my eyes. Its definitely stronger. Since using it, I can taste medicine in the back of my throat. They are eyedrops.
If that first paragraph is true then nobody is responsible for their actions. It's just an uncontrollable electrical impulse that made Ted Bundy kill all those girls. There is no better defense for the death penalty if that's the case. Why allow people with 0 impulse control access to society? Worse yet, why allow them to breed???
The argument is that some people can control their impulses due to genetics and some can't. Sounds kind of like an argument for eugenics to me...
Not impulses, how we think. Your confusing conscious action with thought patterns. A person can choose not to punch someone in the face. A depressed person CANNOT choose to be positive when their thyroid is not producing the right hormone that controls those emotions.
What especially bothers me is that I said a different inconsiderate thing not long ago, and I said I would try to be a better friend, only to hurt her again. Accidental or no, she really needs someone she can feel truly safe with. She's incredibly sweet on the inside, even if she doesn't think it, and I want to be a source of comfort for her.
Did you say those things to hurt her, or to help her? Being 'incredibly' sweet can also mean that she's 'incredibly' naieve. My sister is that way and I've said some inconsiderate, albeit well-meant (from my PoV) things to her also. She usually either agrees with me later, or agrees to disagree with me. She knows my intentions are never to harm her so she forgives my occasional indiscrete comments.
She's probably one of the single least naive human beings I've ever met. She actually considers me incredibly innocent. You don't need to be naive to be sweet.
Firstly, it's now been a year since the girlfriend and I broke up with her explanation of her depression making it impossible for her - we've talked a few times (usually every few months) since then. She's still job hopping and generally not going out or seeing anyone, but thankfully she's living with her parents so at least there is somebody around. I had been dealing with the situation by sending her a nice text once a week or so, she'd never told me to stop (I have asked many times). Today, without drawing attention to the time that has passed, I asked for her permission specifically to continue. I didn't receive a response - nor did I really expect to given that she tends to go months without responding. It's just to the point now where I feel like this has gone on so long I think *I* am going too far or that my behavior belies some kind of problem or harassment at worst. It's been nearly 2 months of silence.
Secondly, I had sole custody of my son, and in some wacky turn of events I lost that custody to his mother who moved over 1,000 miles away. He won't be back until Christmas and she is a constant impediment to my communication with him. The courts simply favor married women over unmarried men I suppose as she is the one with the criminal record and wacky lifestyle between the two of us. I can't even process how upsetting that whole situation is. I have a appealed and the appeal was approved, but it has to be actually ruled on by the 3 judge panel, and then if she protests it has to go back through the whole thing again to a 12 judge panel. So in actuality, it could be a full year before this situation is rectified and I'm basically stuck. They could also rule against me and I'll just have to live with having my son 3 months out of the year for the rest of his childhood. Which I hate.
Thirdly, my mother had cancer, and successfully completed treatment for it 8 years ago, but it appears that either new cancer or the old cancer, is back again. But unlike the first go around she's in extreme pain, and hence here I am writing at 2 am, because I've just taken her to the ER for the third time in as many weeks because she's in unbearable pain.
I'm just feeling like I'm the cartoon character that's flattened by a road roller. I mean what else could possibly go wrong? *All* of the sources of my unhappiness are caused by things beyond my control and which I am absolutely powerless to rectify. So I call out to the internet
I'm sorry I can't say anything comforting. Being depressed myself (just like the ex-girlfriend you described) I find it hard to see something positive when lots of things go wrong. Life sucks even when things do go right. I can wish you some strength though and hope you'll be able to live through the hardships.
Thank you. I used to think I was fairly well educated in regards to depression, but this whole affair has taught me that was clearly Dunning-Kruger. I know there's largely nothing I can do and the harder I try to help the more it drives her away and that ultimately she's the expert. Depression is a bear.
I can share a funny anecdote though I suppose. When I first met said x I knew immediately that I would attempt to date her on sight, but that I had a certain character flaw of which I was deeply ashamed - namely chewing tobacco (it's common among men in my part of the world). I'd done that for the prior 8 years. So before we eventually wound up going on our first date, I went to a local addictions counselor and came up with a quit plan and executed it. Although a year from the breakup is a sad milestone it also means I'm nearly 2 years into being free of tobacco. So whenever I get to feeling really down about it I just remind myself that at least it gave me the strength to kick tobacco - which I probably would've allowed to kill me eventually or at least shorten my life further.
She was okay when the ambulance arrived, but I'm still very worried. She had an intracerebral hemorrhage 4 years ago, with exactly the same symptoms, and needed surgery afterwards.
I can't go after her, because I'm alone with the kids. My father is extremely worried, but tries to be tough.
Don't give up dude. I can't honestly promise things will get better for you, but I can promise that you mean a lot to somebody. I've seen some dark times in my life, even times when I thought about suicide. Don't give in, you have many years left in you and they're worth it. Trust me...
Precisely. This comes down to the question of free will and whether it exists or not. Current neurological evidence strongly indicates that it does not: there is no free will, and there is no separate self, either. Our sense of self is nothing but an epiphenomenon.
However, in practical terms, the whole question is meaningless, and this has been understood hundreds of years ago. It just so happens that whether we have free will or not doesn't mean anything. Our sense of having free will remains irrevocably in place even if the actual fact of it turns out to be an illusion. So, even if there is no free will, nothing changes.
If there is evidence of a lack of free will, that implies that free will can be quantified. How would one even go about doing that?
Hey, I believe in free will because I have no choice in the matter.
In all seriousness, why do I have to keep having to be the security guy? SecOps isn't in my title, but no matter where I work I have to be the guy saying "No, don't email passwords" or "Leaving this endpoint open without authentication leaves us open to attack" or "Quit storing private info in git repos." I spent a huge chunk of the day writing a doc to present to management about why we need to change the culture where I work because I've had enough of this crap. At least I managed to change the mindset of the teams I work with regularly awhile ago. How the hell these people haven't had their identities stolen by now is beyond me.
Fair question. What is being quantified is the concept of separate self, part of which this what we regard as free will.
When you are asked, for instance, to do something, and you decide to raise your left hand, it becomes apparent, upon close examination, that the neural impulses leading to muscular activation are already there long (relatively speaking, of course) before you are aware that you feel like raising your left hand and decide to do so. This is a fertile field of study at the moment, and while nothing is proven (even to the extent that anything at all can ever be proven outside mathematics), it is becoming increasingly apparent that we possess neither separate self nor free will.
Within the mind, thoughts arise, and each thought carries with it the sense of an "I" who thought that thought. So the "I" is an epiphenomenon. There are thoughts, but there is no thinker, no separate entity that can be said to persist through time -- it is only that each thought carries with it the implication of someone whose thought it is.
However, all of this lies within the realm of shall we say "consciousness studies", and that is a field that is still faced with a momentous problem: nobody has a clue of what consciousness is. We have no theory.
(Along with consciousness, the other "blindingly obvious but actually totally mysterious" aspect of our world is time -- nobody has a clue what it is, or even if it exists at all. When you study modern physics for a bit, you may be puzzled to find that when velocity increases, time slows down. Ultimately, with photons travelling at the speed of light, this leads to the fact that time ceases to be altogether. Which in turn means that distance ceases to be. So the light coming from a distant galaxy may have, from our perspective, travelled for 5 billion years. But from the photons' perspective, crossing this distance hasn't taken any time at all, and they haven't crossed any distance, either.)
This is actually a well debated topic in philosophy/neuroscience at this time. Neuroscientists have observed brain activity indicating a choice has been made before the conscious part of the brain even becomes engaged, and in the majority of cases the decision made by the conscious part of the brain is irrelevant and our reaction is already determined before it comes into play. This brings into question, are we just the product of our genetics and environment and does consciousness even come into play even part of the time? This probably needs it's own topic on consciousness or should be taken to the philosophy thread. Not saying I buy that, and could keep going off on this, but it is a point of contention and this should probably be in a different thread.