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The thread for coming out/share your identity

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  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2019
    Maybe the fact that the trans and LGBTQ characters in media seem so "in your face" is actually a you problem, and not one of implementation. But at least you aren't using the usual "forcing it down our throats" phrase, which I've always found telling in and of itself. And trust me, it wasn't "the left" that made Mizhena an issue and bombarded sites with review bombs. That shit-show was created by exactly one group of people who got exactly what they wanted out of it, which was their anti-SJW Movie of the Week. In the years since, we've discovered they will pick just about any game or movie for this role for any reason, and it's become as tired as watching Lifetime Movies.
  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,736
    edited October 2019
    Well, it would appear my participation in this thread is making it more combative than it really should be. So despite my intentions, I owe an apology for that - like I said, it's always up to the person trying to make a point to present that point in understandable form. I don't really have enough time or desire to argue with people unrelated to the subject, particularly those lacking an open mind, so I'll just cut it short, since I already said what mattered.
    Ardanis wrote: »
    3) Subtly work the general opinion in your favor through media. Ever so often I see LGBT characters, including trans, in anime and they feel well integrated and developed. They don't step out and say "hey, I'm X!" into your face, that may not even be ever directly mentioned at all, they just exist and have very human problems everyone can empathize with - much unlike the Mizhena debacle, which is really a textbook case of how not to do things.
    To anyone reading this and thinking this is the best approach, feel free to contact me for feedback if you work on something and want to avoid falling into the same pit.

    PS
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    And trust me, it wasn't "the left" that made Mizhena an issue and bombarded sites with review bombs.
    Sigh. No it wasn't. But the lack of foresight demonstrated by Amber was. I happened to work alongside her on SoD and well know that she meant no harm. But if you piss against wind because you think this is the right thing to do and screw the laws of physics, don't be surprised when it backfires. And maybe don't do it at all, if your pants' safety and acceptance by everyone is your top priority. Not until the wind changes direction, at least.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2019
    semiticgod wrote: »
    People said the exact same things (yes, the exact same things) about Dr. King and the civil rights movement that people now are saying about the trans rights movement. Opponents of the movement criticized the protestors for being impolite and unruly, saying that they were hurting their own cause and that people would take them more seriously if they were less radical, quieter, less inconvenient for people who wanted to buy a ticket at the theater or sit down at a diner without pesky protestors getting in the way.

    Ask them the right way to speak up, and they will tell you that you need to be as quiet as possible, because they don't think you should be speaking up in the first place.

    There's an idea that we're oppressing and silencing people. It's physically impossible for us to even try. We're only 1% of the population and we don't even have money or hold political office. There has never been a single transgender member of Congress in American history, and we are vanishingly scarce even in local seats. What power do we actually possess?

    Freedom of speech. That's our only power. Some folks consider our freedom of speech to be their oppression.

    It sounds like a straw man, but you can check it yourself. Whenever they cite examples of us oppressing people, they cite things we say.

    The reality is, there is no "right way" to promote tolerance. It will always annoy people who take issue with the concept of individual liberty. There's no way you can phrase "treat trans people like human beings" to make it inoffensive to people who don't like us. No matter how you say it, they will think you're the jerk for saying it.

    They will always feel like you're trying to boss them around.

    I've told a friend of mine that the most radical thing a transgender person can do is exist. That's the most offensive thing you can possibly do in the eyes of the people who hate you, and it's the one thing that shows everyone else you're a human being.

    Once people notice that, the whole controversy seems silly.

    This, 1000x. We are talking about people's very existence vs. (at a maximum) fleeting feelings of annoyance or anger and treating them like they are two sides of the same coin. They not only aren't the same coin, they aren't even the same currency.
  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,736
    edited October 2019
    There is the thing... you do not sound or act oppressing and silencing in the slightest, here or elsewhere on this forum. Granted, I'm probably underestimating the prejudice some die hard phobes might feel, but I'm very certain if you wrote a trans character it wouldn't be met with nowhere near the amount of vitriol Mizhena was. Notice that I'm not specifying what would be the right way for you to speak, you manage just fine on your own. I can't say the same about certain other individuals - who are not even part of LGBT themselves (supposedly), - unfortunately.
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    This, 1000x. We are talking about people's very existence vs. (at a maximum) fleeting feelings of annoyance or anger and treating them like they are two sides of the same coin. They not only aren't the same coin, they aren't even the same currency.
    If we're talking about people's very existence, aka them being murdered for existing, then maybe it's best to focus on them not getting murdered? Like someone trans commented on that controversy with "thanks for painting a target on our backs"?
    Post edited by Ardanis on
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,385
    I think most countries have come along way in accepting the LGBTQIA community. We sometimes just forget how atrocious and hideous the reactions have been prior.

    There is a very very long way to go for sure. But acceptance doesn’t come freely or without fight. The pride parades are good way of remember the many sacrifices and fighting for acceptance that prior heroes and the heroes of today still gives/does.

    In days of old I would have consider the parades a freak show - but they are just a harmless and necessary celebration of the magnitude of human nature and the constant fight for acceptance.

    And what should be wrong with the pride anyway. Some grown up guys show some skin and act naughty? How about the carnival of Rio then? As a straight guy I have not seen a problem in that event ever - and I am to find it problematic because it’s guys instead of girls? The logic behind such a rationale doesn’t exist.

    If people want to find the pride problematic, then it’s up to me to correct the faulty assumptions. My freedom and acceptance is given for free and without a fight, but the freedom of speech and other rights is not.


    I don’t need to fight for myself - all is given to me by birth as a straight/white/male born in Europe. But I do owe future generations to fight for something that need some champions. And if not a fight at least not add further injury to the already downtrodden.
  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,736
    edited October 2019
    I'll take the blame for that :P

    Until April '16 I didn't even know what trans was, assuming there was just a crossdressing fetish. Been much shocked to discover how toxic the self-proclaimed "liberals" were about the issue, compared to people pointing out no sane person likes to be lectured about morals in such arrogant manner.
  • ArviaArvia Member Posts: 2,101
    I apologize for participating in the derailing discussion
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Hm, yes. The person who can't be asked to say a three letter word is calling the other people "toxic". Yeah. that checks out.
  • jasteyjastey Member Posts: 2,781
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Hm, yes. The person who can't be asked to say a three letter word is calling the other people "toxic". Yeah. that checks out.
    I'm curious: who in this thread stated that he/she/they can't be asked to say a three letter word?

    @semiticgod I wish you all the best! (Not to say "go, gal!") Thank you for sharing your story.

  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Thank you, jastey. I appreciate it.

    I'd really rather not have people continue the argument here. If there are any other political issues to debate, please do so in a different thread or via PM, not here.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    jastey wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Hm, yes. The person who can't be asked to say a three letter word is calling the other people "toxic". Yeah. that checks out.
    I'm curious: who in this thread stated that he/she/they can't be asked to say a three letter word?

    @semiticgod I wish you all the best! (Not to say "go, gal!") Thank you for sharing your story.

    @semiticgod has requested this thread stops. Just go back a couple pages and you should see it.
  • shabadooshabadoo Member Posts: 324
    I'm seeing a lot of close-mindedness on both sides of this issues. Everyone has the right to be who they want to be. Everyone had the right to believe as they choose to believe. Nobody should force you to be male or female just because that's how 'they' see you. Also, you can't force people to accept it's 'your' feeling. What seems natural or right to one isn't always so for others, and nobody had the right to say my beliefs trump yours. Nobody had the right to tell you what to do with your life. I believe that people should more tolerant of all sorts of behaviors and conditions. But I'm not perfect, I'm not omniscient, and I can't say their opinions are unequivocally wrong. I believe they're wrong, but they can think what they want. If your against trans people...don't get gender reassignment. If your against intolerance ...accept it, don't join it. Outright persecution and assaults should be met with intolerance, just to be clear. I refer to the jokes and looks and rhetoric.
    That said, never stop trying to change the world. Just remember that real change takes time, and is painful. Realize that you may not live to see things get better, but it will happen if we don't quit.
  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,736
    edited November 2019
    semiticgod wrote: »
    I've never actually encountered a trans person who wanted their beliefs to trump another person's. The only thing the community really wants is to be treated like cis people.

    I go to bimonthly support meetings for trans folks, and whenever the question of misgendering comes up, the trans person is always asking, "How do I ask people to use the right pronouns without me sounding impolite?" Meanwhile, an online rumor about some shouty trans person trying to prosecute thought crimes goes viral. For every trans person saying "we want mutual respect," there are ten rumors saying "trans people want control."

    We can try to be model citizens, but we can't counter every rumor and we can't disprove every stereotype. There just ain't enough of us to be everywhere at once.
    Slight correction - those rumors are "SJWs want control". I don't think I've seen someone actually saying "trans/blacks/arabs/women want control", but I've seen a cargo ship's worth of opinions about feminists, SJWs, moral authoritarians etc. For a very good reason, if I do say so myself. Even if the majority among the latter don't necessarily "want control", they're still taking a piss against the wind of traditional majority's lack of openmindedness.

    If you're confident you're still better off taking them as allies - well, good luck, I suppose. My point is, it needs to be a conscious rational decision - weighting pros and cons, recognizing the risk and willing to accept it, - rather than being "oh, they say they're with us, must be good guys then" - as I've seen trans folks deliberately not wanting that kind of support, precisely out of concern for the risks.
    semiticgod wrote: »
    Things have actually been extremely difficult lately. My mom has been incredibly hostile, hurling insults at me and expressing the most hatred and contempt I've ever felt from any human being in my life. I've strongly considered fleeing my house and seeking refuge with some of my friends. I don't feel safe at home anymore.
    Leaving home for a while is probably a good choice, especially if you have a place to stay at.

    I don't know what kind of person your mom is, but one thing I do know is that a mother can both love her children and hurl insults at them, especially under heavy stress. So please don't rush to dismiss your mom as a lost cause just yet. It may very well be just a shock.


    PS
    semiticgod wrote: »
    (Fun fact: I spent more than an hour agonizing over how to phrase this message just so it wouldn't seem too aggressive. We have to be really careful.)
    Trust me, you aren't the only one who's got that problem ;)
  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,736
    Why on earth would anyone cry their eyes out while having a whole jar of pickles?? Unless you mean tears of joy, that is.
  • MichelleMichelle Member Posts: 550
    edited November 2019
    <3
    Post edited by Michelle on
  • MichelleMichelle Member Posts: 550
    edited November 2019
    <3
    Post edited by Michelle on
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    semiticgod wrote: »
    I've already gotten voice training, and three people have already commented on my new voice! A friend of mine said that even my cough sounds feminine now. My voice coach was very efficient (and she's also a great hugger!). Facial hair is a nightmare, though. The closest shave I can get still forces me to use concealer and foundation to hide the shadow, and while I'm told it's hard to notice unless you're looking for it up close, it doesn't quite last all day. I'd like to get electrolysis or laser therapy, but it can get pricy.

    Have you considered laser treatment? It is not a permanent solution but it will permanently diminish the amount of facial hair as well as the growth rate.
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