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Baldur's Gate Logic

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  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,538
    Very interesting
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903


    Healing potions and cure spells then magically cause minor flesh wounds to close up, stop any bleeding, make bruises and pain fade away within a second, remove weakness and fatigue, and restore full alertness and strength. If we had magic healing potions in real life, they'd probably be like addictive drugs or painkillers to some people, who would abuse them for their "feel good" effects.

    Our GM in a PnP campaign once included that precise scenario as part of his world-building. Healing potions and spells had the same properties as opiates and people in-universe who could afford them would regularly get addicted.
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,391
    From what I understand, in pen and paper the shorty saving throws represent a certain amount of resistance to magic.

    That resistance also makes magic super unwieldy, which is why they can't be mages. Except for gnomes, who've worked very hard to gain a limited mastery of certain schools of magic.

    Half Orcs have no such resistance though, so magic should work the same for them as anybody.

    Now, again, this is second hand information. Half Orcs come from one of the extra books. There's less information on them. It's left up to the players discretion what classes they can be.

    Bioware decided that Half Orcs couldn't be mages, presumably because they're too stupid. But the thing is there's already an established amount of intelligence required to be a mage, and it's surprisingly low. Specifically, mages have a minimum intelligence of 9. Half Orcs have a maximum intelligence of 16, well above and beyond that minimum.

    While we're at it, one of the ways to become a sorcerer is through bloodline powers. Orcs, humans, and elves all seem to be able to reproduce with eachother, so any bloodline power available to one should be available to all the others. There's no reason at all that a half orc can't have a dragon in the family tree for example, and all the power that entails.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Half-Orc's lmited class pool is a travesty that I wish Beamdog could/would fix.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    ThacoBell said:

    Half-Orc's lmited class pool is a travesty that I wish Beamdog could/would fix.

    Drama queen! ;)

    I'd just say it's 'mildly irritating' myself, especially since I can't figure out how to make a half-orc fighter/mage using eekeeper. I certainly wouldn't object to a little Beamdog modification however. Hint, hint...
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,391
    I think the class/race restrictions are one of those things where beamdog thinks it's better to let the player mod it to their liking than go messing with the base game.

    For what it's worth they've made modding the class/race options easier than ever before by externalizing the variables associated with it.
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,391
    Jaheira's introduced as your godmother in bg1 and then they just sort of forgot about it in bg2 and made her a romance option. Her romance is super hard to avoid too. You so much as offer your condolences for her dead husband and suddenly she's all over you.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371

    Jaheira's introduced as your godmother in bg1 and then they just sort of forgot about it in bg2 and made her a romance option. Her romance is super hard to avoid too. You so much as offer your condolences for her dead husband and suddenly she's all over you.

    Well there are those Bhaalspawn pheromones to consider so it's not entirely her fault...
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,985
    ThacoBell said:

    Half-Orc's lmited class pool is a travesty that I wish Beamdog could/would fix.

    Please submit your complaint to the late E Gary Gygax.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @Chronicler Why is that an issue? Its not like they are blood related. And depending on the race, the potential age difference is effectively null.

    @tbone1 I wasn't aware he programmed BG2 ;)

    @ZaramMaldovar
    I was SO HAPPY when she became an official paladin in her epilogue.
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,309
    @ThacoBell
    He didn't, but him and Dave Arneson were almost solely responsible for how 1st and 2nd edition worked and the Baldur's Gate Series as well as the 1st Icewind Dale game use 2nd Edition D&D rules.


    Once TSR was sold to Wizards of the Coast in 1997 which was subsequently bought by Hasbro in 1999, they were no longer involved so every edition thereafter has nothing to do with them. But still, no editions can exist without Gygax

    ALL HAIL GYGAX!
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    I really need a sarcasm font.
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,309
    @ThacoBell
    Nah it's okay. It's me and not you in this case. Autism is a pain the Aspergers.

    Just to clarify I'm saying that I'm Autistic, not that you are.

    On the subject of the Tiefling thing though, Aerie's race stat could have been changed to Avariel. It wouldn't have made much of a difference and it can clearly be done.
  • mashedtatersmashedtaters Member Posts: 2,266

    Baldur's Gate Proficiency Logic:

    A fighter with grandmastery in maces has no idea how to swing a club.

    A fighter with grandmastery in katanas has no idea how to swing a wakizashi.

    A fighter with grandmastery in scimitars knows exactly how to fight with a ninja-to.

    The difference between a long sword and a bastard sword is the same as the difference between a halberd and a flail.

    It takes special training to learn to aim a crossbow.

    Baldur's Gate Proficiency Logic:

    A fighter with grandmastery in maces has no idea how to swing a club.

    A fighter with grandmastery in katanas has no idea how to swing a wakizashi.

    A fighter with grandmastery in scimitars knows exactly how to fight with a ninja-to.

    The difference between a long sword and a bastard sword is the same as the difference between a halberd and a flail.

    It takes special training to learn to aim a crossbow.

    This is why I “cheat” with the tweaks mod.

    I never understood AD&D2e weapons proficiency rules, and we always houseruled it our way whenever I played tabletop.

    Baldur’s Gate logic:
    Combatants who have been struck by multiple bolts or arrows to the freaking chest and head can keep on fighting as though nothing has happened to their body that could possibly limit their fighting capabilities.

    When the fight is over, all it takes is a prayer or a drink to stave off death.

    Why? Because HP and magic.
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,391
    It's such a videogame trope that you can keep fighting at full strength straight until you fall dead.

    I have a hard time wrapping my head around what a system would even look like where you get weaker as you take more damage.
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,391
    It'd probably be harder to mow your way through hordes of goblins and such in a system where you get weaker as you take damage.

    Like Goblin 1, you tear through that guy like tissue. It's just a goblin, right?

    But the goblin so much as nicks you, suddenly that next goblin isn't going down so smooth. Which means you have even more opportunity to get nicked on Goblin Number 2.

    Could be that by Goblin Number 5 you're so battered and bruised you're not much stronger than a goblin yourself.
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,352
    ^- Sounds reasonable to me.
  • JoenSoJoenSo Member Posts: 910
    I once read an account from one of the crusades. It talked about crusaders walking along with a whole bunch of arrows stuck in their armor. Even if the arrow didn't go through the armor to actually injure them I suspect it would pack quite a punch. So I often think of that account when a character gets a bolt/arrow/bullet in the chest without saying more than ouch.
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,538
    Bg has fatigue which can be considered a temporary debuff, but it is not linked to being injured. If we could get 1 thac0 penalty per 25% injured or alike then that would be fine with me, especially if we can mod some feats or bonuses per class to partially overcome the maluses.

    PoE split health resources was really a failure to me, it made the game less interesting and more rest spam than my bg play until I got bored halfway through PoE.

  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 1,077
    @BelgarathMTH - that makes sense, even if it lacks certain elegancy. I think that potions that miraculously close wounds and heal broken bones are more pleasing aesthetically than addictive opiats that induce battle frenzy, but it surely provides an answer to my inquiry. ;)
  • mashedtatersmashedtaters Member Posts: 2,266
    I think without AI, it would be so time consuming to program in every potential injury into a game to cause realistic and also enjoyable game mechanics.

    Of course, that’s kind of asking for a lot, as in real life fighting is only fun if you’re the victor and you have certain personality traits.

    But, I played a few P&P games using the 3.5/Pathfinder alternative wounding/vitality system and it was a blast. Our DM was pretty smart and spontaneous, so it really came out as fun.
  • toolargtoolarg Member Posts: 179
    JoenSo said:

    I once read an account from one of the crusades. It talked about crusaders walking along with a whole bunch of arrows stuck in their armor. Even if the arrow didn't go through the armor to actually injure them I suspect it would pack quite a punch. So I often think of that account when a character gets a bolt/arrow/bullet in the chest without saying more than ouch.

    There are a few accounts like that. I remember one about a group of italian mercenary cavalry charging into enemy lines and emerging on the other side looking like porcupines but very much alive and well. Armor just kind of worked.
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