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The topic for unhappiness/vent your sorrow

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  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,656
    edited December 2019
    Welp I'm back in the ER...

    So fun fact, my blood pressure in my left arm is 169 but in my right arm is 188... That damn machine literally caused my entire damn arm to fucking sting and go numb.

    And I'm getting lectures on how I need to keep taking my blood pressure medicine

    Oh and they took my pocket knife. -_-

    Balrog99Arvia
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,510
    DragonKing wrote: »
    Welp I'm back in the ER...

    Oh and they took my pocket knife. -_-

    Gotta be smarter than that. Shoulda left the knife in the car! Seriously, you know how that looks these days...

    Arvia
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,656
    edited December 2019
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    DragonKing wrote: »
    Welp I'm back in the ER...

    Oh and they took my pocket knife. -_-

    Gotta be smarter than that. Shoulda left the knife in the car! Seriously, you know how that looks these days...

    I don't have a car, my brother gave me some money to get a Lyft.

    Spoiler alert; the trains stop at 1:15, I thought they stopped at 3, it's currently 2:15 and guess who has no way home and no money for a lyft or Uber and currently shivering uncontrollably.

    Edit:
    Welp, time for a new night of trying to sleep, I sat in the hospital waiting area from 2 am to 5:30 constantly dozing off and waking back up. I don't even know if it was on purpose. Part of me wanted to sleep put I kept waking up to the staff talking and laughing. When I got back it was around 8am so idk what tonight is going to be like.

    Besides the migraines I've had today, today's just felt more mundane and pointless than usual.

    Post edited by DragonKing on
    Balrog99Arvia
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,656
    Some people don't get why I get so depressed while I'm drawing...

    To put it simply 1 of these pages is me.

    3 of these pages is Tomás Giorello art !!!

    1 page is David finch.

    I see what I want, I've worked for years trying to get there and I'm no closer than where I started.

    Except now I have a massive debt and a useless paper from a 4 year trap that I stayed in way longer than I should have.

    Also no, I've heard it a thousand time..."don't compare yourself bla bla" yea, but I'm going to get compared no matter what. In my life of trying to be a professional artist I've been compared to everything such as one of inspirations Luis Royo which was surprising to German expressionist... Which just depressed the ish out of me.

    So sometimes... Alot really... Almost every other day I just get tired, depressed and just feel like I've thrown my life away chasing a reality that was never mine to have in the first place.

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    JuliusBorisovArvia
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 7,707
    Arvia wrote: »
    I absolutely hate New Year's Eve. I would hide in a cave if I could. Or put wax into my ears and go to sleep in the cellar ar 10 PM, but that would upset the children.
    The fireworks, especially the ones that everyone in the neighborhood uses, are too loud, some people here put up loud music in the garden and the basses hammer through the walls 3 houses away, and I doubt it will be different from last year, where they still had the music so loud at 3 am that I couldn't sleep three houses away. It's a small town and I've told them that I have to work 24 hours tomorrow, so I begged them to turn down the volume after 1 am this time (I'm not unreasonable, of course they want to party until after midnight, but there has to be a limit).
    I hope they're going to listen, or I might put rabbit droppings into their mailbox tomorrow.

    Anyway, a happy new year to all considerate people :smile:

    I tolerate people letting off fireworks late at night on July 4th here in the states. But they never leave it at that. That start doing it on July 2nd and don't stop til July 6th. Maddening.

    ThacoBell
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,656
    Me:
    Ok, I'm going onto try to be more positive this year, I'm going to try and move forward, maybe look for a internship or try to find some freelance design work while taking my 3d and animation and publication layout design this year.

    Life:
    N-word you trying to be positive? How about this, more money issues causing your school account to be locked so you can't pay for class this semester and end up being dropped and putting you behind on everything.

    Oh remember that power bill your behind on, where you got an extension to the tenth? Let's just turn your power off on the 9th.

    Yea, thw hopeful future you thought you might have had, hahaha yeah right.

    What's the point of positivity when the anytime I try life tells me to go eff myself.

    I agree more and more with Vinnie lately.

    "My head don't work, the meds don't work
    But I don't want to be dead, dead don't work
    Sleep's the cousin of death, the bed don't work
    Maybe I'd rather be dead; dead don't hurt"

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,031
    @DragonKing This more related to your work self -image rather than finance woes (I feel you there, if I ever figure out a way to fix my own problems, I'll be sure to share the secret.), but I noticed in your comparison, it seems like you used humans as an example. What about your creature designs though? Based on the work I've seen from you, those seem to be your strong point (to my non-artist eyes, granted). Every artist has weak points, but I think finding your strong point and focusing on that for awhile might help the self esteem.

    Seriously though, I love your monster designs.

  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,656
    @ThacoBell
    I don't draw creatures much, they are harder to do than humans because they require a whole new level of study that I rarely do. Especially the closer they get to real world animals.

    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,031
    DragonKing wrote: »
    @ThacoBell
    I don't draw creatures much, they are harder to do than humans because they require a whole new level of study that I rarely do. Especially the closer they get to real world animals.

    Then you must have some natural skill there. The monsters I've seen you do look really good.

    semiticgodArvia
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,077
    One of the advantages of drawing the imaginary critters is that there are fewer rules about what they're supposed to look like. In art, a zebra that looks different from other zebras seems fake, but a dragon that looks different from other dragons seems unique!

    ThacoBell
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,656
    edited January 10
    @semiticgod
    You still need a basic understanding of construction and rendering to make imaginary critters look good.

    And to make them look believable, or to use a term coined by a master of drawing what doesn't exist, James Gurney, "Imaginary realism" You need a extensive study of what does exist. The most believable dragons look believable because those artist took the time to study real animals, horses, dogs, lizards etc... There is no escaping it.

    Same thing with fantasy structures, a study of similar if not exact same buildings were down to draw and render them believably.

    Then i think about how into the figure alone I've put and continue to put over decades of study and seem to got nothing out of it in return but more depression really and a constant questioning of why am i even alive. Oh, and a debt, a constantly increasing growing hungrier debt.

    semiticgod
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,510
    DragonKing wrote: »
    @semiticgod
    You still need a basic understanding of construction and rendering to make imaginary critters look good.

    And to make them look believable, or to use a term coined by a master of drawing what doesn't exist, James Gurney, "Imaginary realism" You need a extensive study of what does exist. The most believable dragons look believable because those artist took the time to study real animals, horses, dogs, lizards etc... There is no escaping it.

    Same thing with fantasy structures, a study of similar if not exact same buildings were down to draw and render them believably.

    Then i think about how into the figure alone I've put and continue to put over decades of study and seem to got nothing out of it in return but more depression really and a constant questioning of why am i even alive. Oh, and a debt, a constantly increasing growing hungrier debt.
    DragonKing wrote: »
    @semiticgod
    You still need a basic understanding of construction and rendering to make imaginary critters look good.

    And to make them look believable, or to use a term coined by a master of drawing what doesn't exist, James Gurney, "Imaginary realism" You need a extensive study of what does exist. The most believable dragons look believable because those artist took the time to study real animals, horses, dogs, lizards etc... There is no escaping it.

    Same thing with fantasy structures, a study of similar if not exact same buildings were down to draw and render them believably.

    Then i think about how into the figure alone I've put and continue to put over decades of study and seem to got nothing out of it in return but more depression really and a constant questioning of why am i even alive. Oh, and a debt, a constantly increasing growing hungrier debt.

    I'm not trying to be mean here, but have you ever considered pursuing other talents for your living and just playing with art as a hobby? Your current course is clearly not bringing you any peace of mind. There must be some other skill(s) you've noticed you have an aptitude for that could be polished into a career...

  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,656
    @Balrog99
    Nothing brings me peace of mind, drawing was just the only thing that seem to bring me the least amount of frustration or did at one point.

    I've already changed course anyways, that's what becoming a graphic designer was suppose to do. If you are talking about something outside of design and art then no. There isn't, I've walked one track my entire... I have no talents, drawing wasn't even a talent... You know what hang on...
    zlfzdtdfpn0i.jpg
    That was from over a decade ago, in highschool. I didn't choose a career based on talent, but based on what will most likely hold my interest long enough that I could do something with it, and not hate my myself or ready to end myself by the time I was 30.

    I didn't think that was to much to ask out of life. I expected it to take time and dedication to build the skills needed I mean heck Francis tsi was self taught and he became epic. Both Frank Miller and Rob Liefeld are things. So it was the single thing I dedicated myself to fully.

    Balrog99Arvia
  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 956
    DragonKing wrote: »
    I expected it to take time and dedication to build the skills needed I mean heck Francis tsi was self taught and he became epic. Both Frank Miller and Rob Liefeld are things. So it was the single thing I dedicated myself to fully.

    I think the question is whether you want to draw comics, or whether you want to draw like the artists that you have posted examples of. Because you will get two different answers to these questions. What you love in the style of others, might be not be what works for you. Instead of trying to copying them, look for the strenghts of your own style; try to find the uniqueness of it. Comics and illustrations are a an incredibly varied medium. And that's for a reason: realism doesn't fit all subjects and not everyone likes realism.

    Tbh, I would not buy a comic by the artists you've posted, because I dislike that sort of stylisation. Too many details that are drawn in a similar fashion (the bricks & wall scene is an example) looks just messy. I prefer artists that know how to work with and incorporate blank spaces. My favourite fantasy illustrator? John Jude Palencar.

    Balrog99ThacoBellArvia
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,510
    chimaera wrote: »
    DragonKing wrote: »
    I expected it to take time and dedication to build the skills needed I mean heck Francis tsi was self taught and he became epic. Both Frank Miller and Rob Liefeld are things. So it was the single thing I dedicated myself to fully.

    I think the question is whether you want to draw comics, or whether you want to draw like the artists that you have posted examples of. Because you will get two different answers to these questions. What you love in the style of others, might be not be what works for you. Instead of trying to copying them, look for the strenghts of your own style; try to find the uniqueness of it. Comics and illustrations are a an incredibly varied medium. And that's for a reason: realism doesn't fit all subjects and not everyone likes realism.

    Tbh, I would not buy a comic by the artists you've posted, because I dislike that sort of stylisation. Too many details that are drawn in a similar fashion (the bricks & wall scene is an example) looks just messy. I prefer artists that know how to work with and incorporate blank spaces. My favourite fantasy illustrator? John Jude Palencar.

    I agree with @chimaera. Be yourself and develop your own style. My favorite comic book artist is John Byrne and his art style isn't remotely the same as Frank Miller's. Frank Miller has a gritty quality to his art that works for some things (Daredevil, say) but not for others (I didn't care for his version of Wolverine for example). One of my all-time favorite comic books is Groo by Sergio Aragones and he uses a comic-strip style of art that works like a charm for the humor genre.

    ThacoBellArvia
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,656
    @Balrog99
    Style comes after you build a foundation, not before... A saying that I've heard repeated from everyone from comic artist to disney artist, and illustrators. You need to learn how to draw the world around you before you can break it. A lot of new artist focus too much on style and ignore the fundamentals.


    @chimaera
    I just want everything given to pay off. I don't have a style, and I've notice more and more people like to use "style" as a crutch for not trying to improve their fundamentals. A trap i tried nonstop not to fall in, its far too easy to just say, "Oh thats my style" or "im good at this, so I should just focus on this and ignore what I'm bad at." I call that a failure! I got to sit with a man for three years who with his right hand could draw a photo realistic drawing while with his left had at the same to draw a stylistic cartoon drawing. Yet I'm suppose to depend on a crutch? Then what was the point of drawing to my figures wrist and shoulders hurt? What was the point of drawing to 3 in the morning if all I get is a crutch? Straining and stressing myself believing it will all be worth it in the end.

    Arvia
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,031
    @DragonKing " I don't have a style, and I've notice more and more people like to use "style" as a crutch for not trying to improve their fundamentals. A trap i tried nonstop not to fall in, its far too easy to just say, "Oh thats my style" or "im good at this, so I should just focus on this and ignore what I'm bad at." I call that a failure! I got to sit with a man for three years who with his right hand could draw a photo realistic drawing while with his left had at the same to draw a stylistic cartoon drawing. Yet I'm suppose to depend on a crutch?"

    There's a big difference between using syle as an excuse, and actually developing a style of your own to compliment your work and talents. There's a reason that every proffessional artist mentioned here includes talk about "style". Their works don't look like each other, and that difference isn't some kind of quantifiable skill, its their own way of drawing.

    Arvia
  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 956
    edited January 10
    @DragonKing
    I don't think drawing until you hurt your arm/shoulder is a solution.

    Now I don't teach anymore (and when I did, I taught science, not art), but what I have learned from teaching: all students are different. Most people struggle with a new skill not because they have no talent, but because the teaching methods are based on "well we used to learn like that, now you have to". No school, college, uni wants to invest the time & money to create individual learning programs. So if the methods taught at your school didn't work for you, then try different approaches. You could try for example to get an apprenticeship at an artist's studio. You wrote before that you've done an internship at an art gallery, don't they have any contacts you could use?

    Btw, I think you have a style. I have the impression, however, that you are trying to force it into the 'semi-realistic fantasy stuff drawing' lane, and this doesn't work. I'm curious how your still nature or real life portraits (done from sittings, not photos) look like.

    ArviaThacoBell
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,656
    @ThacoBell
    Except many, especially more classically trained animators can draw like each other, in fact it's a skill required if you wish to work in a in house studio that has its own style that it works with, such as DC or Disney. Ontop of that one of the ways we train and are taught is by actually trying to recreate master paintings. Not drawing it in "your style" but recreating it as you see it. Style is the last thing focused on, the fundamentals are. It's the reason why artist like Bruce Timm, can draw beautifully stylized figures because he knows those very fundamentals and of he chooses he can he can turn around and do a realistic piece.

    But you're right some artist that do know the fundamentals can choose to do whatever style they want just like some of us don't want shoehorned onto some "style."

    @chimaera
    As far as the gallery thing goes, that was a few years ago I haven't even spoken to them since the fire happened and they had to relocate somewhere but either way that answer is no. Let alone not anyone who does the type of art o do, despite popular belief, galleries rarely care for illustrative art. In fact there is a massive divide in the fine art world when it comes to illustration. In fact being someone who cared more about illustration I'm a conceptual fine art school at times was... "Fun"... Especially when some kept trying to push me to be more... Post modernistic with my art -_-.

    So no, even the professors at the school I graduated from told me they can't help me do to the levels of seperation of what type of art I do from there's.

    I don't have a style I've always focused on fundementala, proportion, a anatomy, and value. Even with the few times I purposely did stylized nothing came before the fundementals.

  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 956
    edited January 10
    @DragonKing
    I think you are too focused on there being only one road to the goal. But that's my point: if the current approach isn't working, then maybe try to to change it. If repeating the same exercise doesn't help you improve, change the method of exercising. Maybe an aprenticeship with an artist that does art completely different then what you are used to; sculpture, glassworking, calligraphy, whatever. Maybe an internship at a printing studio, or a photographer. Heck, even tattoo art, as strange it may sound.

    edit: To give an example: recenty I listened to a podcast interviewing Shantell Martin, and there she talked about something I haven't heard before - drawing live to music in a club. Even for illustrations there is more space out there nowadays than just books, comics and Disney.

    Balrog99ArviaThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,031
    You've seen a grief councellor, so I assume you've gotten the soft version of well wishes. But since you say you "want" to be miserable your whole life, I think a need a kick more than a nudge.
    Is going out of your way to be miserable your entire life a fitting tribute to your life-long friendship? Is that the feeling and memory of him that you want to always remember be one of bitterness and anger? Could he really have been so cherished if his memory can't even spark any joy? Honestly, that sounds like a huge disservice to his life and memory to me.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,077
    That sounds like a truly remarkable friendship, @Ayiekie. I'm sorry for your loss.

    JuliusBorisovArviaAyiekie
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 857
    semiticgod wrote: »
    That sounds like a truly remarkable friendship, @Ayiekie. I'm sorry for your loss.

    Thank you. I wish that I'd said more about him, but again, I've done that elsewhere and in this case I was taking the title of the thread at its word.
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    You've seen a grief councellor, so I assume you've gotten the soft version of well wishes. But since you say you "want" to be miserable your whole life, I think a need a kick more than a nudge.
    Is going out of your way to be miserable your entire life a fitting tribute to your life-long friendship? Is that the feeling and memory of him that you want to always remember be one of bitterness and anger? Could he really have been so cherished if his memory can't even spark any joy? Honestly, that sounds like a huge disservice to his life and memory to me.

    You misunderstand. What I "want" is my life to be over. I can't do that, however. What I do not want is to let go and move on, because this was not merely a friend but someone closer to me than anyone else in this world ever was or ever will be. There is no "me" without him, no identity I claim that does not include his presence in my life. The possibility of "me without him", as some sort of whole person, is what is grotesque and obscene. That wouldn't be me. Why would I want that?

    It is the inevitable consequence of the above that leads to being miserable for the rest of my life, not any actual desire to be. I'm not actually as bitter or angry as you think (in fact, I'm a lot less bitter and angry than I expected, given there are things I hold directly responsible for his death). I'm just broken. I've had enough. I'm done. I want it to be over, and it can't be.

    I also don't feel particularly responsible to live my life as a tribute to anything. I'm living for people who depend on me, and asking more of me than that is more than I am able to give. You can judge me for it, but you don't know me, haven't lived my life, and I hope in all sincerity that you are in never in a position to demonstrate how you'd do better in similar circumstances.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,031
    " You can judge me for it, but you don't know me, haven't lived my life, and I hope in all sincerity that you are in never in a position to demonstrate how you'd do better in similar circumstances."

    Too late. My grandmother was this person for me. She passed away when I was 17, now at 30, it still feels like it happened just last year. I know what you feel like, because what you described has happened to me. There's nothing wrong with grieving, even for long periods of time (I had your attitude for about 3 years). But at some point you will need live your life again.

    This trend of romanticizing grief is so toxic, and I've seen it so much in the last 10 years. "But I still won't get past it. I know this, because I do not want to get past it. Getting past it, ever being normal again, ever being happy again... that would cheapen the relationship I had with him. " This, this right here is the kind of crap I'm talking about. Its the kind of toxic pity and self harm that gets held up as some kind of romantic long suffering that shouldn't be tolerated. You will ruin your life with this, and there is 0 reason that you should.

    Balrog99Arvia
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 857
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Too late. My grandmother was this person for me. She passed away when I was 17, now at 30, it still feels like it happened just last year. I know what you feel like, because what you described has happened to me. There's nothing wrong with grieving, even for long periods of time (I had your attitude for about 3 years). But at some point you will need live your life again.

    So, it may be that you weren't as bad off as me, or it could be that being much younger than me you had more of a future to resiliently bounce back to, or you could simply be emotionally more resilient than I am. All are valid possibilities.

    I do question your use of "need", though. I don't, in fact, need to live my life again. There is not much in the way of consequence to threaten me with, you know?
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    This trend of romanticizing grief is so toxic, and I've seen it so much in the last 10 years. "But I still won't get past it. I know this, because I do not want to get past it. Getting past it, ever being normal again, ever being happy again... that would cheapen the relationship I had with him. " This, this right here is the kind of crap I'm talking about. Its the kind of toxic pity and self harm that gets held up as some kind of romantic long suffering that shouldn't be tolerated. You will ruin your life with this, and there is 0 reason that you should.

    See, you see "romanticizing", I see it as "an attempt to honestly describe what I'm feeling". I don't particularly see this as romantic - I'm not a broken person waiting to die because I loved him so much (although I did), I'm like that because that's what his death left me as.
    Arvia wrote: »
    I have to agree with @ThacoBell, to an extent, but you came to vent your sorrow, not to be judged because of it.

    It's only been a few months. It's not true that time heals all wounds (and it shouldn't), but the pain should become more bearable after some time.

    It's perfectly all right, I actually had assumed that if I got replies, there'd be somebody like @ThacoBell among them. I'm not offended by it. These are the sort of things that are said to grieving and suicidal people, because none of us want to think that "give up and wait for death" is an acceptable option.

    If it wasn't in a way helpful to talk about it, it'd be silly of me to post about it.
    Arvia wrote: »
    If you have a wife and a child, imagine how they would feel if they knew you consider your life unworthy of living without your friend in it.

    My wife is entirely aware. I don't dwell on it with her every day, because that would just make her depressed to no good result, but our relationship is such that we can be honest about this sort of thing. I in fact told her about the original post, though I advised her not to read it.

    My child doesn't, but I'd worry about her emotional ability to deal with it - she has her own mental issues.
    Arvia wrote: »
    Also, if you think that even your identity doesn't exist without him, that's something I find hard to believe. But who you are without him is something you'll have to find out for yourself, given some time.

    Can I just say I could probably clarify why that's so, but it would require another long post and I don't really want to put my life's story in the thread (mostly because it seems excessive)? There are reasons.

    But I will say that for decades, we were a pair of people most places we went and were probably better known as a pair than as individuals. And writing, the one thing I truly wanted to do in this life, is something we had done together for all that time. There's more to it than that, of course.
    Arvia wrote: »
    You probably don't want to hear all that. I also don't want to belittle your feelings.
    I wish you strength and resilience. But after screaming into the abyss for a while, it's time to get up and spit fate in the face again.

    It's all right, I can appreciate the feeling behind the response. I've said similar things to people many times in my life - it's what you do, right?

    SkatanBelgarathMTHArvia
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