Apparently Hit Points do not represent physical durability to take hit, but rather defensive abilities of a person - more HP means that you can dodge more attacks, you see opportunities to avoid damage where someone less experienced would surely die, that you know how to maneuver around battlefield and minimalize any possible damage. So, if that's the case, then what exactly healing potions do? Do they replenish... I don't know, some kind of battle stamina? Sharpness of senses? And why after combat characters keep being injured, instead of getting instantly better?
I always think of hit points as your level of freshness vs. fatigue in combat. With full hit points, you are fully rested, fully alert, and at your best possible combat readiness and skill. As hit points diminish, you are becoming increasingly tired and worn down. At low hit points, you may have sustained many scratches and bruises, and have suffered several blunt shockwaves going through your body from blocking and parrying. You may have minor flesh wounds causing some bleeding. You have majorly physically exerted yourself, are becoming out of breath, and are covered with sweat, blood, and dirt.
Only the blow that takes you to zero hit points is the blow that literally connects and causes serious bodily harm.
Healing potions and cure spells then magically cause minor flesh wounds to close up, stop any bleeding, make bruises and pain fade away within a second, remove weakness and fatigue, and restore full alertness and strength. If we had magic healing potions in real life, they'd probably be like addictive drugs or painkillers to some people, who would abuse them for their "feel good" effects.
A potion is like a "spell in a bottle". It has an instant effect that is limited in scope, and provides no protection from further injury.
Healing potions and cure spells then magically cause minor flesh wounds to close up, stop any bleeding, make bruises and pain fade away within a second, remove weakness and fatigue, and restore full alertness and strength. If we had magic healing potions in real life, they'd probably be like addictive drugs or painkillers to some people, who would abuse them for their "feel good" effects.
Our GM in a PnP campaign once included that precise scenario as part of his world-building. Healing potions and spells had the same properties as opiates and people in-universe who could afford them would regularly get addicted.
Apparently Hit Points do not represent physical durability to take hit, but rather defensive abilities of a person - more HP means that you can dodge more attacks, you see opportunities to avoid damage where someone less experienced would surely die, that you know how to maneuver around battlefield and minimalize any possible damage. So, if that's the case, then what exactly healing potions do? Do they replenish... I don't know, some kind of battle stamina? Sharpness of senses? And why after combat characters keep being injured, instead of getting instantly better?
I always think of hit points as your level of freshness vs. fatigue in combat. With full hit points, you are fully rested, fully alert, and at your best possible combat readiness and skill. As hit points diminish, you are becoming increasingly tired and worn down. At low hit points, you may have sustained many scratches and bruises, and have suffered several blunt shockwaves going through your body from blocking and parrying. You may have minor flesh wounds causing some bleeding. You have majorly physically exerted yourself, are becoming out of breath, and are covered with sweat, blood, and dirt.
Only the blow that takes you to zero hit points is the blow that literally connects and causes serious bodily harm.
Healing potions and cure spells then magically cause minor flesh wounds to close up, stop any bleeding, make bruises and pain fade away within a second, remove weakness and fatigue, and restore full alertness and strength. If we had magic healing potions in real life, they'd probably be like addictive drugs or painkillers to some people, who would abuse them for their "feel good" effects.
A potion is like a "spell in a bottle". It has an instant effect that is limited in scope, and provides no protection from further injury.
From what I understand, in pen and paper the shorty saving throws represent a certain amount of resistance to magic.
That resistance also makes magic super unwieldy, which is why they can't be mages. Except for gnomes, who've worked very hard to gain a limited mastery of certain schools of magic.
Half Orcs have no such resistance though, so magic should work the same for them as anybody.
Now, again, this is second hand information. Half Orcs come from one of the extra books. There's less information on them. It's left up to the players discretion what classes they can be.
Bioware decided that Half Orcs couldn't be mages, presumably because they're too stupid. But the thing is there's already an established amount of intelligence required to be a mage, and it's surprisingly low. Specifically, mages have a minimum intelligence of 9. Half Orcs have a maximum intelligence of 16, well above and beyond that minimum.
While we're at it, one of the ways to become a sorcerer is through bloodline powers. Orcs, humans, and elves all seem to be able to reproduce with eachother, so any bloodline power available to one should be available to all the others. There's no reason at all that a half orc can't have a dragon in the family tree for example, and all the power that entails.
Half-Orc's lmited class pool is a travesty that I wish Beamdog could/would fix.
Drama queen!
I'd just say it's 'mildly irritating' myself, especially since I can't figure out how to make a half-orc fighter/mage using eekeeper. I certainly wouldn't object to a little Beamdog modification however. Hint, hint...
I think the class/race restrictions are one of those things where beamdog thinks it's better to let the player mod it to their liking than go messing with the base game.
For what it's worth they've made modding the class/race options easier than ever before by externalizing the variables associated with it.
Half-Orc's lmited class pool is a travesty that I wish Beamdog could/would fix.
Drama queen!
I'd just say it's 'mildly irritating' myself, especially since I can't figure out how to make a half-orc fighter/mage using eekeeper. I certainly wouldn't object to a little Beamdog modification however. Hint, hint...
I use Tweaks Anthology to remove all racial restrictions. I need mah Half-Orc Bards and Halfling Paladins darnit!
Jaheira's introduced as your godmother in bg1 and then they just sort of forgot about it in bg2 and made her a romance option. Her romance is super hard to avoid too. You so much as offer your condolences for her dead husband and suddenly she's all over you.
Jaheira's introduced as your godmother in bg1 and then they just sort of forgot about it in bg2 and made her a romance option. Her romance is super hard to avoid too. You so much as offer your condolences for her dead husband and suddenly she's all over you.
Well there are those Bhaalspawn pheromones to consider so it's not entirely her fault...
I also don't have a problem with the Jaheria romance in general though I do agree that it was a bit rushed. At least it's complicated to finish though.
Here's one:
Bioware Logic: The rules can be fudged to make Haer'Dalis a Tiefling, but not to make Mazzy a Paladin.
@ThacoBell He didn't, but him and Dave Arneson were almost solely responsible for how 1st and 2nd edition worked and the Baldur's Gate Series as well as the 1st Icewind Dale game use 2nd Edition D&D rules.
Once TSR was sold to Wizards of the Coast in 1997 which was subsequently bought by Hasbro in 1999, they were no longer involved so every edition thereafter has nothing to do with them. But still, no editions can exist without Gygax
@ThacoBell Nah it's okay. It's me and not you in this case. Autism is a pain the Aspergers.
Just to clarify I'm saying that I'm Autistic, not that you are.
On the subject of the Tiefling thing though, Aerie's race stat could have been changed to Avariel. It wouldn't have made much of a difference and it can clearly be done.
@Chronicler Why is that an issue? Its not like they are blood related. And depending on the race, the potential age difference is effectively null.
Hey, I can't tell you what you should have a problem with. All I'm saying is if I trust you to raise my child in the event of my death, and then within a year of my dying you've jumped their bones, you've got a haunting in store for you.
A fighter with grandmastery in maces has no idea how to swing a club.
A fighter with grandmastery in katanas has no idea how to swing a wakizashi.
A fighter with grandmastery in scimitars knows exactly how to fight with a ninja-to.
The difference between a long sword and a bastard sword is the same as the difference between a halberd and a flail.
It takes special training to learn to aim a crossbow.
This is why I “cheat” with the tweaks mod.
I never understood AD&D2e weapons proficiency rules, and we always houseruled it our way whenever I played tabletop.
Baldur’s Gate logic: Combatants who have been struck by multiple bolts or arrows to the freaking chest and head can keep on fighting as though nothing has happened to their body that could possibly limit their fighting capabilities.
When the fight is over, all it takes is a prayer or a drink to stave off death.
It'd probably be harder to mow your way through hordes of goblins and such in a system where you get weaker as you take damage.
Like Goblin 1, you tear through that guy like tissue. It's just a goblin, right?
But the goblin so much as nicks you, suddenly that next goblin isn't going down so smooth. Which means you have even more opportunity to get nicked on Goblin Number 2.
Could be that by Goblin Number 5 you're so battered and bruised you're not much stronger than a goblin yourself.
It's such a videogame trope that you can keep fighting at full strength straight until you fall dead.
I have a hard time wrapping my head around what a system would even look like where you get weaker as you take more damage.
Dragon Age: Origins had an interesting injury system where you took combat debuffs that would last until you could get the injury treated. It really wound up being more of an annoyance than a fun game mechanic, so a lot of people modded it out.
Pillars of Eternity tried to incorporate a kind of injury/wounded system where it split the health mechanic into separate hit points and endurance, where endurance would recharge quickly but hit points could only be restored by resting or a once-per-day skill, and resting was limited. Most players complained loudly, and wanted to go back to a traditional single hit point bar system that was restorable via potion and multiple-times-per-day spells.
I once read an account from one of the crusades. It talked about crusaders walking along with a whole bunch of arrows stuck in their armor. Even if the arrow didn't go through the armor to actually injure them I suspect it would pack quite a punch. So I often think of that account when a character gets a bolt/arrow/bullet in the chest without saying more than ouch.
Bg has fatigue which can be considered a temporary debuff, but it is not linked to being injured. If we could get 1 thac0 penalty per 25% injured or alike then that would be fine with me, especially if we can mod some feats or bonuses per class to partially overcome the maluses.
PoE split health resources was really a failure to me, it made the game less interesting and more rest spam than my bg play until I got bored halfway through PoE.
@BelgarathMTH - that makes sense, even if it lacks certain elegancy. I think that potions that miraculously close wounds and heal broken bones are more pleasing aesthetically than addictive opiats that induce battle frenzy, but it surely provides an answer to my inquiry.
I think without AI, it would be so time consuming to program in every potential injury into a game to cause realistic and also enjoyable game mechanics.
Of course, that’s kind of asking for a lot, as in real life fighting is only fun if you’re the victor and you have certain personality traits.
But, I played a few P&P games using the 3.5/Pathfinder alternative wounding/vitality system and it was a blast. Our DM was pretty smart and spontaneous, so it really came out as fun.
I never understood AD&D2e weapons proficiency rules, and we always houseruled it our way whenever I played tabletop.
Well to be fair, 2nd Edition AD&D works differently than Baldurs Gate proficiency rules. In 2nd Edition if you have Grandmastery in Katanas, you would have half of that proficiency in similar weapons like Scimitars. Or Long Swords and Bastard Swords. Daggers and Short Swords. You get the idea.
I once read an account from one of the crusades. It talked about crusaders walking along with a whole bunch of arrows stuck in their armor. Even if the arrow didn't go through the armor to actually injure them I suspect it would pack quite a punch. So I often think of that account when a character gets a bolt/arrow/bullet in the chest without saying more than ouch.
There are a few accounts like that. I remember one about a group of italian mercenary cavalry charging into enemy lines and emerging on the other side looking like porcupines but very much alive and well. Armor just kind of worked.
Comments
Only the blow that takes you to zero hit points is the blow that literally connects and causes serious bodily harm.
Healing potions and cure spells then magically cause minor flesh wounds to close up, stop any bleeding, make bruises and pain fade away within a second, remove weakness and fatigue, and restore full alertness and strength. If we had magic healing potions in real life, they'd probably be like addictive drugs or painkillers to some people, who would abuse them for their "feel good" effects.
A potion is like a "spell in a bottle". It has an instant effect that is limited in scope, and provides no protection from further injury.
I still have one hit point left!
That resistance also makes magic super unwieldy, which is why they can't be mages. Except for gnomes, who've worked very hard to gain a limited mastery of certain schools of magic.
Half Orcs have no such resistance though, so magic should work the same for them as anybody.
Now, again, this is second hand information. Half Orcs come from one of the extra books. There's less information on them. It's left up to the players discretion what classes they can be.
Bioware decided that Half Orcs couldn't be mages, presumably because they're too stupid. But the thing is there's already an established amount of intelligence required to be a mage, and it's surprisingly low. Specifically, mages have a minimum intelligence of 9. Half Orcs have a maximum intelligence of 16, well above and beyond that minimum.
While we're at it, one of the ways to become a sorcerer is through bloodline powers. Orcs, humans, and elves all seem to be able to reproduce with eachother, so any bloodline power available to one should be available to all the others. There's no reason at all that a half orc can't have a dragon in the family tree for example, and all the power that entails.
I'd just say it's 'mildly irritating' myself, especially since I can't figure out how to make a half-orc fighter/mage using eekeeper. I certainly wouldn't object to a little Beamdog modification however. Hint, hint...
For what it's worth they've made modding the class/race options easier than ever before by externalizing the variables associated with it.
I also don't have a problem with the Jaheria romance in general though I do agree that it was a bit rushed. At least it's complicated to finish though.
Here's one:
Bioware Logic: The rules can be fudged to make Haer'Dalis a Tiefling, but not to make Mazzy a Paladin.
@tbone1 I wasn't aware he programmed BG2
@ZaramMaldovar
He didn't, but him and Dave Arneson were almost solely responsible for how 1st and 2nd edition worked and the Baldur's Gate Series as well as the 1st Icewind Dale game use 2nd Edition D&D rules.
Once TSR was sold to Wizards of the Coast in 1997 which was subsequently bought by Hasbro in 1999, they were no longer involved so every edition thereafter has nothing to do with them. But still, no editions can exist without Gygax
ALL HAIL GYGAX!
Nah it's okay. It's me and not you in this case. Autism is a pain the Aspergers.
Just to clarify I'm saying that I'm Autistic, not that you are.
On the subject of the Tiefling thing though, Aerie's race stat could have been changed to Avariel. It wouldn't have made much of a difference and it can clearly be done.
I never understood AD&D2e weapons proficiency rules, and we always houseruled it our way whenever I played tabletop.
Baldur’s Gate logic:
Combatants who have been struck by multiple bolts or arrows to the freaking chest and head can keep on fighting as though nothing has happened to their body that could possibly limit their fighting capabilities.
When the fight is over, all it takes is a prayer or a drink to stave off death.
Why? Because HP and magic.
I have a hard time wrapping my head around what a system would even look like where you get weaker as you take more damage.
Like Goblin 1, you tear through that guy like tissue. It's just a goblin, right?
But the goblin so much as nicks you, suddenly that next goblin isn't going down so smooth. Which means you have even more opportunity to get nicked on Goblin Number 2.
Could be that by Goblin Number 5 you're so battered and bruised you're not much stronger than a goblin yourself.
Pillars of Eternity tried to incorporate a kind of injury/wounded system where it split the health mechanic into separate hit points and endurance, where endurance would recharge quickly but hit points could only be restored by resting or a once-per-day skill, and resting was limited. Most players complained loudly, and wanted to go back to a traditional single hit point bar system that was restorable via potion and multiple-times-per-day spells.
PoE split health resources was really a failure to me, it made the game less interesting and more rest spam than my bg play until I got bored halfway through PoE.
Of course, that’s kind of asking for a lot, as in real life fighting is only fun if you’re the victor and you have certain personality traits.
But, I played a few P&P games using the 3.5/Pathfinder alternative wounding/vitality system and it was a blast. Our DM was pretty smart and spontaneous, so it really came out as fun.
Help driad: +1 reputation.
Kill driad: -2 reputation.
Help driad and kill driad: +1 and -3 reputation.
Fair enought.