Just watched the stream, SoD looks beautiful even if the build is outdated now; what is the timeline for updating BG:EE with the new features (shaman class, new rendering etc.) so I can do a playthrough with a shaman protagonist?
there's been an interesting remark that an "alternative tester" (I read it as Chris Avellone) reviewed the game in 2015 and after that they had to re-rewrite some things,
That specific round of work was less re-rewriting (which is a constantly ongoing process pretty much until I'm directly ordered to stop) than adding a bunch of additional material to increase player options.
I hope there's a quick & easy way to revert the UI to the state it is currently in BG, BG2 & IWD. I find certain things in the preview SoD UI redundant.
I hope there's a quick & easy way to revert the UI to the state it is currently in BG, BG2 & IWD. I find certain things in the preview SoD UI redundant.
The new UI system makes it comparatively much easier to change things. I would expect modders to start looking at the UI as something to be embraced and changed more freely than ever before.
The new UI system makes it comparatively much easier to change things. I would expect modders to start looking at the UI as something to be embraced and changed more freely than ever before.
It seems I need to clarify my comment. I don't want to have to mod the "new" UI back to the "old" UI. While I would prefer the "old" UI to be the default one, I have a sneaking suspicion that "new" one is going to be the default one. In light of this suspicion I would like reverting back to the "old" UI be as quick & painless as possible, preferably as simple as a check mark in the option menu. I don't want to have to hack the UI back to it's previous, uncluttered functionality.
Think back how many irate posts there were when without any explicit advanced warning the NWN2 default UI changed between the OC & MotB. Now while in NWN2 one can change the UI back by tapping the number pad "*" key, imagine how much worse a potential reaction there may be if if one has to mod the SoD "new" UI to get it back to the BG1 "old" UI...
@Dee Will we be able to use the old stat breakdowns in the inventory screen and character sheets? These would be very sorely missed indeed, if gone.
To clarify what I mean, I'm talking about the small lists next to the AC, THAC0, and damage stats that explain how the stat in question is being calculated, with a line of text and a number for each relevant item, magic effect, and modifier that affects the stat.
I'm also of the opinion that these old features should be in the game and accessible without mods, but I would be relieved to hear that they can be restored via modding.
To clarify what I mean, I'm talking about the small lists next to the AC, THAC0, and damage stats that explain how the stat in question is being calculated, with a line of text and a number for each relevant item, magic effect, and modifier that affects the stat.
@Luke93 It's fine to see that information on the Record Screen, but @Adul has been wondering about showing of it on the Inventory screen, like it's in BGEE:
Compare it with the SoD Inventory screen:
What if players want to see all those modificators to their THAC0, damage and AC right on the Inventory screen, without going anywhere else?
You know... It is debatable why it should be in the inventory screen. They are generic statistics which have a nice place in the character summary. It prevents clutter in the inventory gui.
However, I can fully understand that people want to see the effects of changing gear without going to the character screen. On the other hand, do players need to see that thac0 goes down and damage goes up other than the resulting values? I wonder. What is the right hand side in the new gui for btw? Those seemingly empty boxes? Can I hypothesise that they show the new values when you have a weapon or armour selected?
What is the right hand side in the new gui for btw? Those seemingly empty boxes? Can I hypothesise that they show the new values when you have a weapon or armour selected?
The left hand side shows the values of a previous item, the right hand side shows the values of a new item:
[spoiler=Abdel changes his axe for a spear, the difference is shown in left and right boxes]
@Luke93 It's fine to see that information on the Record Screen, but @Adul has been wondering about showing of it on the Inventory screen, like it's in BGEE:
Compare it with the SoD Inventory screen:
What if players want to see all those modificators to their THAC0, damage and AC right on the Inventory screen, without going anywhere else?
This is exactly the kind of stuff I mean. I'm used to certain information to be located in certain areas for the last, what... 16, 17 years?... Also, I already know say for instance a +4 item is better than a +2 item. I don't need the wasted space in the inventory screen hand holding me for that. Hence why I would like to be able to easily reverted back to the previous GUI style that has been in place for more than the last decade & a half plus...
IIRC, the THAC0, damage, and AC breakdowns were not on the inventory screens in BG1 and BG2. The info hasn't been there for 16 or 17 years.
Also, those little windows can easily be insufficient. If you have an 6th level elven Archer with 18 Dex, mastery in bows, the Bracers of Archery, a +2 bow, +1 acid arrows, under the affects of a Bless spell and the Tale of Three Heroes bard song, then you end up with having to use scroll bars to see it all anyway. Better to have that information given in detail on another screen, or as a touch/mouse-over popup.
What is the right hand side in the new gui for btw? Those seemingly empty boxes? Can I hypothesise that they show the new values when you have a weapon or armour selected?
The left hand side shows the values of a previous item, the right hand side shows the values of a new item:
ah, as i suspected. So the removal of the additional info is very likely a design change to prevent clutter and the additional boxes are the in between solution to aid the players. Seems well thought out to me (as a software design engineer).
Pop ups are evil. They should never be included. It is the programmers way to accomplish something they could not do more elegantly (Bg example, the alt-f4 boo will miss you message which has been staring at me for over a decade). I really hope you mean the hover tooltip to show additional customizable (moddable/programmable) info.
(Like scrollbars often, but not always, indicate that you have too many options and should have grouped/categorised better)
@bengoshi During the live stream, you asked the developers if there would be quests for Dorn, Neera and Rasaad... They didn't answer, did they? Personally, I hope there will be quests for the trio...
Those old screen shots dont calculate the two things I use the most, damage threshold per hit amd Thac0. Damage isnt even on the Character Sheet, and you have to read a novel to find Thac0. Having them there while I switch between a new magical item and a old one, gives me a quick glance on which I should be using.
And just because you are use to it doesn't mean it should stay that way. Might as well keep using a rotary phone tje rest of your life since the first 10 years that is all that you were use to using.
There is also so much dead space in the wide screen version of those screens you might as well use it for information regarding the items currently in use.
If someone wants to Mod the old look back however, they have made it much easier to do so than in the past.
Pop ups are evil. They should never be included. It is the programmers way to accomplish something they could not do more elegantly (Bg example, the alt-f4 boo will miss you message which has been staring at me for over a decade). I really hope you mean the hover tooltip to show additional customizable (moddable/programmable) info.
(Like scrollbars often, but not always, indicate that you have too many options and should have grouped/categorised better)
Yes. A mouse-over tooltip on desktop versions, but a touch version on tablets/phones (at least until phones can sense your finger hovering over a certain part of the screen ), e.g., Mouse-over (or tap) the AC and a breakdown of the AC appears.
Those old screen shots dont calculate the two things I use the most, damage threshold per hit amd Thac0. Damage isnt even on the Character Sheet, and you have to read a novel to find Thac0. Having them there while I switch between a new magical item and a old one, gives me a quick glance on which I should be using.
And just because you are use to it doesn't mean it should stay that way. Might as well keep using a rotary phone tje rest of your life since the first 10 years that is all that you were use to using.
I prefer the EE inventory screens to the originals. Having damage and THAC0 shown on the inventory screen is good (and I'm glad Beamdog isn't getting rid of that). But, the claim was that the inventory screen has been showing the AC, THAC0, damage, and their "breakdowns" for 17 years. My point was that's not an accurate statement.
Well, the EE was released in 2012, so 3+ years may be looked at as a long period for those playing the game and getting used to seeing calculations on the Inventory screen. But of course, that statement was not accurate.
@Luke93 Glad you noticed, and no, they didn't answer.
@Anduin Can you elaborate on that? Did I miss something?
Thanks @bengoshi as usual for all of the wonderful info and to @AndrewFoley, @Amber_Scott, and @Dee for answering our many many questions. I did have one more though. I think it may have been asked bofore in a different way, but are there any plans currently to release a patch with the new UI/updates/improvements (particularly spells and new shaman class) to at least BGIEE prior to the release of SoD (not to beat a dead horse but a date would be great for this too so that some of us can get used to the changes and get a character or two prepped?
Thanks @bengoshi as usual for all of the wonderful info and to @AndrewFoley, @Amber_Scott, and @Dee for answering our many many questions. I did have one more though. I think it may have been asked bofore in a different way, but are there any plans currently to release a patch with the new UI/updates/improvements (particularly spells and new shaman class) to at least BGIEE prior to the release of SoD (not to beat a dead horse but a date would be great for this too so that some of us can get used to the changes and get a character or two prepped?
There will be more information on this soon (keep an eye on the Beamblog!), but the "official data" on this is that yes, there will be an update released for BG:EE and BGII:EE prior to the release of the Siege of Dragonspear expansion, although how far in advance of the expansion's release has not been stated anywhere.
There was a question about fonts, as well. You may have heard Phil mention it during the stream, but we've added proper .ttf support for fonts. To clarify what this means, historically the Baldur's Gate games used bitmaps of each font that's used in-game, which among other things led to issues with special characters. The engine now has the ability to pull all of the characters in a particular font, which means that 1) fonts can appear much cleaner in-game than they have previously, and 2) fonts are much easier to swap out, both on our side, and on yours.
That's all I'll say on that for now (it's important to keep some things hidden up our sleeves), but remind me as we get closer and I'll see if we can post some of the "brilliant alternatives" we bandied about the office.
Grrr... I think it is more to do with journal pop ups, but if they can place pop ups in the inventory screens as well... That would be... Interesting...
Sorry @bengoshi . called you out as you seem to on top of the information stream.
And just because you are use to it doesn't mean it should stay that way. Might as well keep using a rotary phone tje rest of your life since the first 10 years that is all that you were use to using.
Does anyone else notice the irony of insinuating that someone else is a luddite because of what they posted ONLINE? This makes me recall when I followed pinball forums, there were certain individuals that constantly bemoan ONLINE how solid-state circuitry lead to the downfall of the industry...
And just because you are use to it doesn't mean it should stay that way. Might as well keep using a rotary phone tje rest of your life since the first 10 years that is all that you were use to using.
Does anyone else notice the irony of insinuating that someone else is a luddite because of what they posted ONLINE? This makes me recall when I followed pinball forums, there were certain individuals that constantly bemoan ONLINE how solid-state circuitry lead to the downfall of the industry...
No. What I am saying is just because you are use to something, doesn't mean it cannot be improved and to raise a fit because it is being improved (like what the rest of my post said if you are looking for detailed improvements) is rather silly espcially when the base of your arguement is you are use to it. Espcially when ot has been stated that it is going to be much easier for people to customize the appearance.
Comments
Think back how many irate posts there were when without any explicit advanced warning the NWN2 default UI changed between the OC & MotB. Now while in NWN2 one can change the UI back by tapping the number pad "*" key, imagine how much worse a potential reaction there may be if if one has to mod the SoD "new" UI to get it back to the BG1 "old" UI...
To clarify what I mean, I'm talking about the small lists next to the AC, THAC0, and damage stats that explain how the stat in question is being calculated, with a line of text and a number for each relevant item, magic effect, and modifier that affects the stat.
I'm also of the opinion that these old features should be in the game and accessible without mods, but I would be relieved to hear that they can be restored via modding.
Compare it with the SoD Inventory screen:
What if players want to see all those modificators to their THAC0, damage and AC right on the Inventory screen, without going anywhere else?
However, I can fully understand that people want to see the effects of changing gear without going to the character screen. On the other hand, do players need to see that thac0 goes down and damage goes up other than the resulting values? I wonder.
What is the right hand side in the new gui for btw? Those seemingly empty boxes? Can I hypothesise that they show the new values when you have a weapon or armour selected?
[spoiler=Abdel changes his axe for a spear, the difference is shown in left and right boxes]
[/spoiler]
Also, those little windows can easily be insufficient. If you have an 6th level elven Archer with 18 Dex, mastery in bows, the Bracers of Archery, a +2 bow, +1 acid arrows, under the affects of a Bless spell and the Tale of Three Heroes bard song, then you end up with having to use scroll bars to see it all anyway. Better to have that information given in detail on another screen, or as a touch/mouse-over popup.
Pop ups are evil. They should never be included. It is the programmers way to accomplish something they could not do more elegantly (Bg example, the alt-f4 boo will miss you message which has been staring at me for over a decade).
I really hope you mean the hover tooltip to show additional customizable (moddable/programmable) info.
(Like scrollbars often, but not always, indicate that you have too many options and should have grouped/categorised better)
They didn't answer, did they? Personally, I hope there will be quests for the trio...
Damage isnt even on the Character Sheet, and you have to read a novel to find Thac0. Having them there while I switch between a new magical item and a old one, gives me a quick glance on which I should be using.
And just because you are use to it doesn't mean it should stay that way. Might as well keep using a rotary phone tje rest of your life since the first 10 years that is all that you were use to using.
There is also so much dead space in the wide screen version of those screens you might as well use it for information regarding the items currently in use.
If someone wants to Mod the old look back however, they have made it much easier to do so than in the past.
These are my main thoughts after yesterday's stream..
Well, the EE was released in 2012, so 3+ years may be looked at as a long period for those playing the game and getting used to seeing calculations on the Inventory screen. But of course, that statement was not accurate.
@Luke93 Glad you noticed, and no, they didn't answer.
@Anduin Can you elaborate on that? Did I miss something?
"scoring cinematics"
There was a question about fonts, as well. You may have heard Phil mention it during the stream, but we've added proper .ttf support for fonts. To clarify what this means, historically the Baldur's Gate games used bitmaps of each font that's used in-game, which among other things led to issues with special characters. The engine now has the ability to pull all of the characters in a particular font, which means that 1) fonts can appear much cleaner in-game than they have previously, and 2) fonts are much easier to swap out, both on our side, and on yours.
That's all I'll say on that for now (it's important to keep some things hidden up our sleeves), but remind me as we get closer and I'll see if we can post some of the "brilliant alternatives" we bandied about the office.
Sorry @bengoshi . called you out as you seem to on top of the information stream.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/insinuate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinball
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrete_logic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrete_circuit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_electronics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microprocessor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinball#1970s:_Solid-state_electronics_and_digital_displays_introduced